Why do Protestant Apologists feel the need to lie about history and the Catholic Church?

[Protestant101]

Because Jesus put him in charge.

peace

The only problem with that is that Jesus is in charge; not any man:

**Eph 5:23 **For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.

God has never delgated His authority over the Church to another human being:

Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

We do not “lie” about the Catholic Church, we simply say how we understand the Bible, just as all good Catholics do.

 

[po18guy]

Why follow a “live German” when you can follow Jesus?

Here’s some Christianity 101:

Pope Benedict XVI is my earthly leader to Jesus. He stands “in Persona Christi”. The Apostles were lead by Peter, who was appointed by Jesus. Apostolic hands were then laid upon heads in succession from Peter to Benedict XVI, an unbroken line of leadership. That’s why we still have one church and Protestants have 33,000 different ones.

Is there a supervisor at your place of employment? Do you obey that person, or just read the company’s mission statement and do your own thing? Which is more likely to accomplish the mission?

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[mgrfin]

The Crystal Cathedral is not a fundamentalist institution in any sense. TBN we could argue about, as I said already. Your examples demonstrate my point–you mean something different by “fundamentalism” than scholars who study the subject (or those of us who have been unfortunate enough to grow up surrounded by real fundamentalism) do.

I assure you that the fundamentalists I grew up with hated the sort of preachers you find on TBN with a passion. They were almost as bad as the Catholic Church, and that’s saying something!

Edwin

Of course, you have to be able to read to make the kind of criticisms you made. I never said TBN or Crystal Cathedral were fundamentalists.

Your dislike of Catholicism is appalling, especially since you disguise your disgust in glowing terms of how much education you have, and how much more you know than the rest of us. You just can’t stand any competition. especially from any Catholic.

Since you find Catholicism so awful, we have to wonder why you hang out here. But we do know. It is here to attack and to play with us, detesting every minute of your amusement.

I can’t figure whether your snobbism comes from your Fundamentalism, or vice versa. Catholicism leads the list of the things most inimical to your religion, or, better, Romanism, which is the term you’d like to paint us with. Remember that argument?

The newness of your religious sect bodes well for its eventual change. We understand who you are and where you are coming from. Don’t push your "you have no idea what Fundamentalism is all about’, because we do, Edwin. It is just 20th Century gnosticism.

peace,
mgrfin

 

[Protestant101]

Here’s some Christianity 101:

Pope Benedict XVI is my earthly leader to Jesus. He stands “in Persona Christi”. The Apostles were lead by Peter, who was appointed by Jesus. Apostolic hands were then laid upon heads in succession from Peter to Benedict XVI, an unbroken line of leadership. That’s why we still have one church and Protestants have 33,000 different ones.

Is there a supervisor at your place of employment? Do you obey that person, or just read the company’s mission statement and do your own thing? Which is more likely to accomplish the mission?

Christ’s peace be with you.

The Apostles did not follow Peter; they all followed Jesus direct, not by proxy.

Jesus always told people to follow Him, not other humans:

**Mat 4:19 **And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

The same call goes out to all of His disciples today. This is not a “Protestant Lie.” it is a Bible truth, about another kind of lie.

 

[St_Violet]

The only problem with that is that Jesus is in charge; not any man:

God has never delgated His authority over the Church to another human being:

We do not “lie” about the Catholic Church, we simply say how we understand the Bible, just as all good Catholics do.

do you not agree that Christ himself placed Peter incharge of his flock? do you honestly believe that Christ intend that people run wild and free with his message/teaching like many protestants do?

 

[Protestant101]

do you not agree that Christ himself placed Peter incharge of his flock? do you honestly believe that Christ intend that people run wild and free with his message/teaching like many protestants do?

No, I am sorry. I do not/cannot agree with this. Jesus did not place Peter in charge of His Church; rather, he asserted Himself as the authority over His Church; for He alone is the Foundation:

Eph.5:24 tellus clearly:

The church is subject unto Christ,

The Church has as Her Head, Christ, being wholly dependent upon him, and entirely resigned to him, and receiving all from him; from whom alone is all her expectation of provision, protection, comfort, and happiness; wherefore she has respect to all his commands, and esteems all his precepts concerning all things to be right; and yields a cheerful, voluntary, sincere, and hearty obedience to them; arising from a principle of love to him, and joined with honour, fear, and reverence of him:

PS…It’s not like Catholics don’t also “run wild and free” with their own machinations; for I have lots of books by Catholics all with differing view points on many “cardinal doctrines.”

 

[po18guy]

The Apostles did not follow Peter; they all followed Jesus direct, not by proxy.

Jesus always told people to follow Him, not other humans:

The same call goes out to all of His disciples today. This is not a “Protestant Lie.” it is a Bible truth, about another kind of lie.

(in best Ronald Reagan voice) “Well, there he goes again!”

Please read Matthew 16:18. Peter is mentioned 195 times in the NT. The closest is John, at 29 times. “Peter and the rest of the Apostles” and “Peter and his companions” are often used. Why?

Break out your KJV and feast on the following:

Mt 16:13-20
Mt 14:24-33
Mk 16:7
Lk 22:30-32
Lk 24:33-35
Jn 20:6
Jn 21:15-19
Acts 1:15-26
Acts 3:1-9
Acts 10-11
Acts 15:6-11
Gal 1:18

Keep seeking the truth.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Protestant101]

(in best Ronald Reagan voice) “Well, there he goes again!”

There is a mutual submission that Christians owe one to another, condescending to bear one another’s burdens: not advancing themselves above others, nor domineering over one another and giving laws to one another. Paul was a better example of this kind of truly Christian temperament, for he became all things to all men. I don’t recall Peter being described like that.

1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Peter was more impetuous than some of the other disciples; and can hardly e considered as the sole foundation of the Church, “in proxy for Jesus.” Jesus designated ALL of His dsiciples, collectively, not as Lone Ranger Peter, to have authority together, (inspite of differences and diversities), in the Church; but not over the Church, giving all believers the authority to “move mountains” in preaching the gospel; but Jesus is the Foundation of the gospel; just as He is of The Church:

Psa 118:22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

The Bible actually mentions ALL of the apostles, (plural)AND ALL OF THE PROPHETS, (plural) as only a part of the foundation; and always with Jesus, as the “Chief Cornerstone.” To limit “authority” in the Church to only Peter, is not Biblical. Jesus, together with apostles, prophets (part of the foundation) always asserted His authority over the lot. He did not ever designate it to just one man; except Himself:

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[mgrfin]

The Apostles did not follow Peter; they all followed Jesus direct, not by proxy.

Jesus always told people to follow Him, not other humans:

The same call goes out to all of His disciples today. This is not a “Protestant Lie.” it is a Bible truth, about another kind of lie.

You have to graduate from “101”, and move up in your Christian education.

The Apostles always followed Peter. He was their leader.

Simon Peter is mentioned 195 times in the New Testament.

When all the twelve Apostles are named, Peter is always listed first; Judas Iscariot is always listed last.

Often: “Peter and the rest of the Apostles” or “Peter and his companions

Jesus to Peter: “I give to you the keys of the kingdom of heavenj; what you bind on earth, is bound in heaven”.

And after Jesus left them: “In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said…”

And on Pentecost: "But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spoke to them: ‘Ye men of Judea…’

You can never run away from the textual evidence in the New Testament about the leadership of our first Pope.

peace

 

[mgrfin]

There is a mutual submission that Christians owe one to another, condescending to bear one another’s burdens: not advancing themselves above others, nor domineering over one another and giving laws to one another. Paul was a better example of this kind of truly Christian temperament, for he became all things to all men. I don’t recall Peter being described like that.
QUOTE]

Of course, Jesus is the cornerstone. But he knew he was going to leave us, so he chose Peter. Of course it is biblical.

Is the best you can do to fend off the headship of Peter is to quote Ep 2:20 - what prophet was chosen to lead the new Church? None.

What apostle was chosen to lead the new Church?
It certainly is biblical to point to St. Peter.

peace

 

[qui_est_ce]

I think the dead german is Martin Luther, and the alive German is our current pope

That is great. thanks.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Faith truly is a gift. I know that is true because when someone says that so-and-so has not joined the true Church because he has an issue with the ordination of women…well, what more can I say. How can that keep one from the true Church?

peace
mgrfin

One of the things I have figured out since I was reborn 3 1/2 years ago is that “gift” of faith is not selective. It is a gift given to ALL. God gives us the free will to accept or reject His gift of Grace. I used to liken God’s gift of faith depended on the giver (like birthday presents), but the ‘Gift of Grace’ is not in the same category. The Bible tells us to this gift is freely given to all the world. To me the mystery is, why do some accept the gift and others reject the gift?

 

[qui_est_ce]

We have 5 times more of whatever you have in Tenneess. This is the home of TBN, and the Chrystal Cathedral

We have more Catholics than anyone else. More Baptists, 40 pct of all Buddists, more Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Episcopalians, and Evangelicals. Maybe Utah has more Mormons, but we have our share.

I hang with anyone who can stand me.

peace,
mgrfin

I know this has nothing to do with anything, but I was at a Christ Renews His Parish (CRHP) day of reflection today, and Hector Molina was the speaker:

web.mac.com/hector.molina/Site/Welcome.html

WOW, to think I almost missed it because I clean house on Saturday mornings and attending would interrupt my schedule.

Cont, you ought really to take your intellectual musings over the Tiber, we need more people like you.

 

[mgrfin]

Cont, you ought really to take your intellectual musings over the Tiber, we need more people like you.

His wife won’t let him go swimming. Not in any Roman waters, anyway.

peace

 

[qui_est_ce]

His wife won’t let him go swimming. Not in any Roman waters, anyway.
peace

Who is his wife?

 

[po18guy]

You have to graduate from “101”, and move up in your Christian education.

The Apostles always followed Peter. He was their leader.

Simon Peter is mentioned 195 times in the New Testament.

When all the twelve Apostles are named, Peter is always listed first; Judas Iscariot is always listed last.

Often: “Peter and the rest of the Apostles” or “Peter and his companions

Jesus to Peter: “I give to you the keys of the kingdom of heavenj; what you bind on earth, is bound in heaven”.

And after Jesus left them: “In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said…”

And on Pentecost: "But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spoke to them: ‘Ye men of Judea…’

You can never run away from the textual evidence in the New Testament about the leadership of our first Pope.

peace

mgrfin, you rock! PRAY PRAY PRAY that 101 stops Protesting and opens his heart to the truth. We all overcame our objection to truth, which is fallen human nature. Pray that he will, as well.

Christ’s peace.

 

[mgrfin]

mgrfin, you rock! PRAY PRAY PRAY that 101 stops Protesting and opens his heart to the truth. We all overcame our objection to truth, which is fallen human nature. Pray that he will, as well.

Christ’s peace.

Of course.

There are a lot of conversions we have to pray for.

The fact that there are a lot of non-Catholics on this site is indicative of their interest.

Of course, some have come to gloat; but they go away to pray.

peace,
mgrfin

 

[po18guy]

Of course.

There are a lot of conversions we have to pray for.

The fact that there are a lot of non-Catholics on this site is indicative of their interest.

Of course, some have come to gloat; but they go away to pray.

peace,
mgrfin

Great news: A dissatisfied Mormon has agreed to attend mass as soon as we can get together! Turns out that her beloved grandmother was Catholic. Praise God! He ALWAYS provides.

Christ’s peace.

 

[mercygate]

There is a mutual submission that Christians owe one to another, condescending to bear one another’s burdens: not advancing themselves above others, nor domineering over one another and giving laws to one another. Paul was a better example of this kind of truly Christian temperament, for he became all things to all men. I don’t recall Peter being described like that.

Then who were the “leaders” the author of Hebrews counsels the faithful to “submit to”?

Peter was more impetuous than some of the other disciples; and can hardly e considered as the sole foundation of the Church, “in proxy for Jesus.” Jesus designated ALL of His dsiciples, collectively, not as Lone Ranger Peter, to have authority together, (inspite of differences and diversities), in the Church; but not over the Church, giving all believers the authority to “move mountains” in preaching the gospel; but Jesus is the Foundation of the gospel; just as He is of The Church:

Catholics do not say that Peter is the “sole foundation of the Church.” Jesus calls him the “rock” – the foundation, whose profession of faith is not from “flesh and blood.” Jesus is ever the “chief cornerstorne” and the Head of the Church. All bishops share the authority of the Chuch. The point is that, however you cut this passage, the Eleven are the core of the teaching Church. Your quibble is not really with Peter. It is with the whole idea of Apostolic authority.
The Great Commission and the promise that the Holy Spirit will “guide you into all the truth” are given only to them. Whatever teaching does not accord with the Apostolic Church is off the boat. Peter is the centerpiece of the Apostolic Church: by the very words of Jesus Himself. There is no way around this. There is no diffusing it. There is no honest way to skirt the point that Jesus promised to build HIS Church upon the rock of Peter.

The Bible actually mentions ALL of the apostles, (plural)AND ALL OF THE PROPHETS, (plural) as only a part of the foundation; and always with Jesus, as the “Chief Cornerstone.” {quote]No Catholic could deny this.

To limit “authority” in the Church to only Peter, is not Biblical. Jesus, together with apostles, prophets (part of the foundation) always asserted His authority over the lot. He did not ever designate it to just one man; except Himself:

But he put Peter at the center of the team to whom all of those promises were made. Without Peter, you are playing with a short team.

 

[rr1213]

His wife won’t let him go swimming. Not in any Roman waters, anyway.

peace

I have no idea if this is true or not, but is this sort of personal comment really appropriate here? I don’t think so. When your disagreements with another poster devolve into comments about his or her spouse you’ve definitely crossed the line of civil discourse.