Why do Protestant Apologists feel the need to lie about history and the Catholic Church?

[Protestant101]

mgrfin, you rock! PRAY PRAY PRAY that 101 stops Protesting and opens his heart to the truth. We all overcame our objection to truth, which is fallen human nature. Pray that he will, as well.

Christ’s peace.

Thanks for the prayers; but that is the reason I am on this or any other forum - to investigate truth, what is and what is not.

I do not believe that “overcoming objections” is all there is to “truth;” and this is why I feel prophecy is so important; for it is not just about one Church being right and the others wrong. It is about Jesus.

**Rev 19:10 **And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

I will also be praying for you, that you will wake up to the reality that Bible Prophecy is relevant, essential, and Christ-centered. And that there is no “interpretation” involved with prophecy, except that which the Bible itself offers.

**Psa 119:105 **Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and **a light **unto my path.

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto **a light **that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

May God add His blessings to the reading of His Word.

 

[po18guy]

Thanks for the prayers; but that is the reason I am on this or any other forum - to investigate truth, what is and what is not.

I do not believe that “overcoming objections” is all there is to “truth;” and this is why I feel prophecy is so important; for it is not just about one Church being right and the others wrong. It is about Jesus.

I will also be praying for you, that you will wake up to the reality that Bible Prophecy is relevant, essential, and Christ-centered. And that there is no “interpretation” involved with prophecy, except that which the Bible itself offers.

May God add His blessings to the reading of His Word.

Thank you for the prayers! You have a seeking heart or, indeed, you would not be here. However, someone has misinformed you on the church.

1. You are absolutely right-overcoming objections to truth is not all. However, our fallen human nature leads us away from truth. We, by nature, object to truth. Paul admonished us to test everything and retain what is good. That is precisely what we do and continue to do.

All of the Apostles responded directly to the call of Jesus-so powerful and attractive was His being. That is why I am Catholic-Christ is physically present in the Catholic church. That is why we speak constantly of the “true presence”. We LOVE Him!

1. Yes! Prophesy is extremely important. And that same prophesy is about ONE church. There is weeping in heaven that there are 33,000 Protestant denominations-none of which agree with one another. They are all following prophecy too, but with consciences in different degrees of formation, and 33,000 different leaders. THAT is why Christ appointed ONE leader, who is chosen by the Holy Spirit. We submit to him. He leads us, keeping us on task. Rest assured, without our Pope, we would also have 33,000 Catholic denominations.
2. Maybe hard for you to believe, but you would hear more scripture in church if you were Catholic. Go to mass. See the priest elevate Sacred Scripture so all can see. Listen to the word of God.

Mass consists of two parts: the Liturgy of THE WORD, and the Liturgy of the Eucharist (thanks), which IS Christ. You will see that Christ is the only reason for everything. Everything we do leads us to Christ.

Many churches are bible-centered. The Catholic church is CHRIST-centered, rather than bible-centered, because as Jesus said: “there is something greater here”. The church founded by Christ on Peter is absolutely consumed with love for Him and the desire of being in His presence. But, you have trouble telling that from outside.

The Lord Himself is working to lead each of us to perfection. Keep inquiring and make us provide a defense of the reason for our hope in Christ. That is what Peter admonished us to do.

Christ’s peace.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I do not believe that “overcoming objections” is all there is to “truth;” and this is why I feel prophecy is so important; for it is not just about one Church being right and the others wrong. It is about Jesus.

May God add His blessings to the reading of His Word.

Is Prophesy another word for personal interpretation?

 

[jpaul]

There is Revelation 12:1

And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; 2* she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery. 3* And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads. 4* His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, that he might devour her child when she brought it forth; 5* she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, 6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which to be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Catholic intreprets the woman as Mary based on the following reasoning.

1. She gave birth to a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.
2. This child was caught up to God and to his throne.

The child we Catholics believe is Jesus Christ. Jesus inherited the Kingdom of David which will be forever. We see that this child was caught up to God and to his throne. This verse sounds parallel resemblance to the Ascension of the Lord. In verse 1, the woman is crown with twelve stars. As far as we know, a Queen have crowns.

John, the Evangelicalist is a Jew. He knows Jewish Scripture very well. In Biblical Typology, OT Jewish Kings have mothers as their Queen (See 1 Kings 2:17, 20, 1 Kings 2:18, 1 Kings 2:19, 1 Kings 15:13, 2 Chron. 22:10, and Neh. 2:6).

The queen acts an intercessor to the King in behalf of the people. The New Testament is hidden in the OT, and OT is reveal in the New. Since Jesus is the King, he made his mother queen. When John, the Evangelical wrote Revelation he saw a vision from God, which reveal the Triumph of the Lamb of God.

Revelation also state that the vision appeared heaven. No queen in heaven? I doubt it. Take a look at the passage and there clearly a queen in heaven.

The assumption is also implied here. She how would a woman appear in heaven? She would assumed.

***Amen. All the ages to come shall call the Blessed Virgin Mary blessed. (cf. Luke 1: 48).

Ave Maria! (Luke 1: 28).***

jpaul

 

[Nella]

There are countless anti-Catholic websites on the net, all of which contain nothing but lies against the RCC. They do this by grossly misrepresenting Catholic Doctrine, or by simply making up their own history; a history that conflicts with all modern historical evidence. These lies have obviously disseminated throughout the Protestant laity; however I’m not blaming them, they are the product of a 500 year propaganda campaign. Why is there this culture of misinformation among Protestantism?

Why must you accuse others of being ignorant or misinformed when they do not agree with Catholicism?? Is this the only way you can defend your faith? Why won’t you refute using factual information instead of dismissing those who oppose you as poorly catechised? I have yet to see an honest and clearly evident point of Catholicism that Protestants in general either misunderstand or do not properly know.

 

[po18guy]

Why must you accuse others of being ignorant or misinformed when they do not agree with Catholicism?? Is this the only way you can defend your faith? Why won’t you refute using factual information instead of dismissing those who oppose you as poorly catechised? I have yet to see an honest and clearly evident point of Catholicism that Protestants in general either misunderstand or do not properly know.

Nella,

Anyone, yourself included of course, would become weary from perpetual attacks upon the Septuagint, the Papacy, the Seven Sacraments, the Priesthood, and perpetual allegations of being the “whore of Babylon”, ad nauseum. But, when it leads the most vocal non-Catholics to defame the Mother of God, and the Apostle Peter, that’s goes well beyond the pale.

If we were One Church. which we were, such accusations would not exist to sap our strength and distract us from God’s work. Satan triumphed not only in the need for the refomation, but in the results of it. The Body of Christ was shattered into pieces while satan’s body remains unified.

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[RobHom]

I am yet to find even one anti-Protestant site that attempts to misrepresent history or Protestant beliefs.

I guess you have never been on the “contender ministries” site or some of the linked sites? You want to talk about “history revisionists”? According to them, based on their own statements, there is not a single protestant religion that has a clue, oh, except for themselves.

The site is quite a hoot. I give them a “credibility level” about a notch or two below “the Onion”.

 

[RobHom]

Why must you accuse others of being ignorant or misinformed when they do not agree with Catholicism??

Why must then in turn do that very thing which you apparently condemn, and rightly so?

Is this the only way you can defend your faith?

Is this the only way that they can defend or justify their beliefs?

Why won’t you refute using factual information instead of dismissing those who oppose you as poorly catechised?

We do, incessantly, it is however a failure on the part of those who do not belong to the Catholic Church to avail themselves of the materials presented…instead they issue the same old tired saw… “its not in the scriptures”…and they are using a “stripped down bible at that”.

I have yet to see an honest and clearly evident point of Catholicism that Protestants in general either misunderstand or do not properly know.

Oh, they “know” of honest and clearly evident points of Catholicism, which they openly and vocifierously and even vehemently deny, even to the point of “judging” Catholics as “condemned to hell”. But, yet they, the protestants out of either fear, blindness, false teachings and hard heartedness refuse to even read the offered proofs…

I’m going to stop right there, lest I end up saying things that are beyond what may be determined acceptable on this site.

 

[RobHom]

Thanks for the prayers; but that is the reason I am on this or any other forum - to investigate truth, what is and what is not.

According to your standards or a completely neutral and unbiased standard. Are you really seeking the TRUTH, or trying to smoothly insinuate your TRUTH as the one true TRUTH?

I do not believe that “overcoming objections” is all there is to “truth;” and this is why I feel prophecy is so important; for it is not just about one Church being right and the others wrong. It is about Jesus.

You’d get little argument here… But it seems that all protestants have is “objections” to Catholicism. Is that your daily spiritual food?

I will also be praying for you, that you will wake up to the reality that Bible Prophecy is relevant, essential, and Christ-centered. And that there is no “interpretation” involved with prophecy, except that which the Bible itself offers.

Care to explain that without being circuitous? Or are you just being obtuse? Seriously.

May God add His blessings to the reading of His Word.

Thank you. We know that he always has…

 

[RobHom]

There are countless anti-Catholic websites on the net, all of which contain nothing but lies against the RCC. They do this by grossly misrepresenting Catholic Doctrine, or by simply making up their own history; a history that conflicts with all modern historical evidence. These lies have obviously disseminated throughout the Protestant laity; however I’m not blaming them, they are the product of a 500 year propaganda campaign. Why is there this culture of misinformation among Protestantism?

To answer succinctly this question: Its all they’ve got to justify their existence. To agree with the Catholic Church is the end of their reason to be. Its that simple. If they agree with Catholicism, they then become Catholics…

 

[mgrfin]

Why must you accuse others of being ignorant or misinformed when they do not agree with Catholicism?? Is this the only way you can defend your faith? Why won’t you refute using factual information instead of dismissing those who oppose you as poorly catechised? I have yet to see an honest and clearly evident point of Catholicism that Protestants in general either misunderstand or do not properly know.

Nella,

It is not ‘misunderstanding’ that we object to; it is misinformation, and erroneous propaganda that Protestants put out. We are not going to state that they do this wilfully; so, to be charitable, we attribute it to misunderstanding.

Which reason do you prefer, misunderstanding, or misinformation?

peace

 

[Protestant101]

My replies will be in blue

According to your standards or a completely neutral and unbiased standard. Are you really seeking the TRUTH, or trying to smoothly insinuate your TRUTH as the one true TRUTH?

Well; I suppose that this is the kind of insinuation that has turned off both Catholics and Protestants in their exchanges with one another. In my almost one year on this forum, I started to say this kind of thing about one forum member, some time ago now; and then I realized that even if I was right, I was still wrong for making such a public accusation with someone I did not know.

You’d get little argument here… But it seems that all protestants have is “objections” to Catholicism. Is that your daily spiritual food?

Obviously, Catholic and Protestant beliefs are going to be antagonistic towards one another; but does this mean that the people have to be the same? And what about all YOUR “objections” to Protestantism?

Care to explain that without being circuitous? Or are you just being obtuse? Seriously.

Since I have already been deemed as “circuitous” I will leave this one to you to explain properly to forum members.

Thank you. We know that he always has…

God will add His blessing to the reading of His Word, only for those who truly intend to go by only His Word:

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

 

[RobHom]

David… do you mean “beating around the bush”?

Obviously, Catholic and Protestant beliefs are going to be antagonistic towards one another; but does this mean that the people have to be the same? And what about all YOUR “objections” to Protestantism?

Not all that many, in reality. My principal objection is simply all the time and energy that protestants spend attacking and slandering my beliefs and my Church…all the while refusing to stop hiding behind a simplistic theology that is at best questionable and man-mad, that being “sola-scriptura”, et al. And yet they will complain that our way is all man made… And then they claim the bible as their source, yet they use an incomplete bible that was stripped down by men without the authority of the canon to do so.

God will add His blessing to the reading of His Word, only for those who truly intend to go by only His Word

Ahhh, but we do…just not the way protestants want us to. And it is not the province of those not empowered by God in harmony with the Church who determine what His Words are.

 

[po18guy]

God will add His blessing to the reading of His Word, only for those who truly intend to go by only His Word:

101, hey man, what’s up?

While you’re reading, check out John 21:25 The bible is only a fraction of the life of Christ. That good enough for you? Don’t you want more, like His Body and Blood? You’re missing the Lord’s supper.

Christianity is MORE than just the bible. Read Luke 1:1-4.

Does the weight of sin ever burden you? If you’ve never experienced the moment of grace when your sins are lifted, you again are missing a lot.

If Christ were standing in your church, wouldn’t you go? He is, and we do. We adore him.

You have no idea how much you are missing. But, typing endlessly accomplishes very little. Go and experience mass with a well catechized Catholic.

Un-learn all of the prejudice you have learned by those who do not know the Catholic faith. ESPECIALLY if they “used to be” catholics. They knew very little of thje faith-that’s why they left.

Don’t just type day after day, week after week. GO. See. Watch the worship of Christ. Expereience truth. Then decide for yourself.

Peace, brother.

 

[Nella]

Nella,

Anyone, yourself included of course, would become weary from perpetual attacks upon the Septuagint, the Papacy, the Seven Sacraments, the Priesthood, and perpetual allegations of being the “whore of Babylon”, ad nauseum. But, when it leads the most vocal non-Catholics to defame the Mother of God, and the Apostle Peter, that’s goes well beyond the pale.

If we were One Church. which we were, such accusations would not exist to sap our strength and distract us from God’s work. Satan triumphed not only in the need for the refomation, but in the results of it. The Body of Christ was shattered into pieces while satan’s body remains unified.

Christ’s peace be with you.

I haven’t heard anyone here call the pope the whore of Babylon. That’s a new one to me. As far as the Reformation goes, it is merely one’s opinion of what it really was and means today. I happen to believe it restored God’s Word again and gave it respect and meaning that it had obviously lost. You may disagree and that’s fine. The Body of Christ is alive and well and if it weren’t, we would all be in trouble.

 

[Nella]

Nella,

It is not ‘misunderstanding’ that we object to; it is misinformation, and erroneous propaganda that Protestants put out. We are not going to state that they do this wilfully; so, to be charitable, we attribute it to misunderstanding.

Which reason do you prefer, misunderstanding, or misinformation?

peace

I would actually prefer to know exactly what you are accusing folks of being misinformed of. I see this very very often here, but yet you have miserably failed in producing what it is that you are calling propaganda. Do folks here say that Catholic’s worship Mary or worship a piece of bread? I don’t think so. We have undoubtedly gotten way past Understanding Catholicism 101.

 

[mgrfin]

My replies will be in blue

God will add His blessing to the reading of His Word, only for those who truly intend to go by only His Word:

It is interesting that you quote John 7:17 in support of this, which, to say the least, is an esoteric quote.

It is amazing to me, when it comes to interpreting scriptures, protestants go way past stretch. Yet, when we quote obvious passages, e.g. the Eucharist, you say such can’t be taken literally.

You can’t have it both ways.

Your quote does not support your premise.

peace

 

[Protestant101]

Not all that many, in reality. My principal objection is simply all the time and energy that protestants spend attacking and slandering my beliefs and my Church…all the while refusing to stop hiding behind a simplistic theology that is at best questionable and man-mad, that being “sola-scriptura”, et al. And yet they will complain that our way is all man made… And then they claim the bible as their source, yet they use an incomplete bible that was stripped down by men without the authority of the canon to do so.

Both sides keep saying the same kinds of things. I am starting to call this kind of comment “whiner’s theology;” or perhaps, “he said, she said” theology. “No I never!” “Yes you did!” “No I never!” “Yes you did!” “No I never!” “Yes you did!”

Do you know how many different denominations, including your’s all say the same kind of rhetoric about how “the real Bible” is known and understood only by them? How only they are “authorized by God” to determine truth; and to decipher His Word? Being talked to like this makes me feel like it’s certain Catholics who are lying about Protestants; else why would the Catholic side keep trying to elicit pity parties and martyr complexes like this?

My principal objection is simply all the time and energy that protestants spend attacking and slandering my beliefs and my Church…all the while refusing to stop hiding behind a simplistic theology that is at best questionable and man-mad

The part of the Bible that you say has been stripped away by Protestants cannot be proven to have anything in it which would say that the current Bible used by most of the world is not complete. The King James Bible which I use has all the necessary ingredients for salvation; and I would challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

Again; most who are accused of “lying” actually are doing the opposite.

 

[mgrfin]

I haven’t heard anyone here call the pope the whore of Babylon. That’s a new one to me. As far as the Reformation goes, it is merely one’s opinion of what it really was and means today. I happen to believe it restored God’s Word again and gave it respect and meaning that it had obviously lost. You may disagree and that’s fine. The Body of Christ is alive and well and if it weren’t, we would all be in trouble.

Nella, that term has been used on this site numerous times. I have even used it twice, not in dirision of the Papacy but quoting what Luther would call the Pope.

The Body of Christ is the Catholic Church (The Mystical Body of Christ), and it is fine cause the Holy Spirit is guiding it.

peace

 

[Nella]

Nella, that term has been used on this site numerous times. I have even used it twice, not in dirision of the Papacy but quoting what Luther would call the Pope.

peace

You seem to think you know alot about what Luther would say. ****