Why do protestants believe in Bible only?

[Remnant1]

I have a co-worker who I find very intelligent and interesting to talk to. he is currently studying theology. he left the Catholic church at 17 and I know is a very strong protestant and attends a non-denominational church. I asked if he would like to read Scott Hahn’s book “Rome, Sweet Rome” and give me his opinion. he returned the book to me last week and said that as far as he is concerned the Mass is heresy and that we should take the Bible alone. of course, as a Catholic I do not agree with him. I do not believe that the Mass is heretical and I believe we had the Church before the Bible.
I am sure this question has been asked many times before, but why do protestants not see the the Church came before the Bible. and how can they ignore the words of Jesus
“do this in remembrance of me”. obviously he does not believe in the Real Presence either.
I believe he left the Catholic church at a young age and didn’t really understand the Catholic faith to its fullest and I guess I was hoping that by reading the Scott Hahn book he might begin to rethink Catholicism and want to look into it deeper. perhaps I was naïve.
he wasn’t angry with me for giving him the book to read and I guess I am taking his word that he actually read it. I just don’t understand why they believe in sola scripture when Jesus nor the apostles had access to the Bible as we know it. they had the teachings of the Torah, and spread the Gospel by word of mouth before the Bible was ever put together.

The church did come before the bible.

Gen.3
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The woman here is God’s church, way back in Gen.3 However God, Jesus, manifests himself in the bible.

Jn.5
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And on the road to Emmaus

Luke24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

And

Jn.8
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

God is love
Remnant1

 

[rfournier103]

Sadly, the tasks of the day make me depart, but I have a few things to say about Confession…

I am amazed that NOBODY has brought up the SECOND part of Confession…

Part one: Confess your sins. Check.

Part two: Make a PENNANCE…

After the confession is heard, the priest gives a pennance to the pennetant for him/her to perform. A RESTITUTION, if you will…

Return what you stole. Apologize to your neighbor for acting like a donkey. Pray to God and ask His forgiveness. Just a few examples here…

Confession to a priest and praying to God isn’t an “or” thing. It’s an “and” thing. You Confess before a priest AND you pray to God.

Anyone here who is serious about learning about this, and isn’t just concerned with arguing should listen to this: youtube.com/watch?v=fZ0D-BLWY70.

It’s long, but VERY much worth the investment of your time.

 

[Lochias]

Who said they speak for Christ.

“Whosoever’s sins you forgive are forgiven,” yadda yadda. And before you claim again that only the original Apostles could forgive sins, think about how silly it would have been for Jesus to start the process in the first place if that were true. There would have been*** no need*** for Jesus to say those words if anyone could simply feel bad for sinning, and then be forgiven.

I was not aware that I need to consult someone else in order to talk to Christ.

You don’t. That’s not the point or purpose of Confession. I think, personally, that Jesus was wonderful to set up a system of both accountability for our sins AND allowing us to hear with a real, warm voice that our sins are indeed forgiven. Honestly, it’s a lot more satisfying than waiting for the ceiling to forgive you. Jesus knew exactly what we’d need as humans to do our best.

Nobody has to speak for Christ because everything he needed to say has been said. All that is left is for us to follow his instructions. You don’t need to ask for forgiveness you already have it.

If I break my father’s window on accident with a bat, I don’t need to ask for his forgiveness? Really? It’s not expected that I need to tell him what’s happened, and then atone for my mistake in the way he’d like best?

Jesus said this, how could you possibly be arguing this. I have been repeating what Jesus said all day, when you all keep giving your interpretations. The word of God is not up for interpretation. Jesus said what to do and he never contradicted himself. If you say something other than what Jesus said you are implying that Jesus contradicted himself. If he did, what he said was not truth so he couldn’t have been the word of God or the son of God. And it this is so, and you are telling me that it was a lie when Jesus said all you have to do is believe in him and be baptized and that only god can forgive our sins, then I think we better get a fattened calf ready for sacrifice. This may sound extreme, but you are telling me that Jesus was wrong, and that I should follow what men say over the word of God. If you believe what Jesus said to the rabbi at the river then there is no argument. There is only truth and man made tradition. Which is yours and which is mine? Before you answer that think which side came from the mouth of the Son of God.

My case is closed; i’m going to bed, right after I prey for you.

The word is “pray”, not “prey.”

Also, you are making a lot of assumptions that are now clearly based on confusion and emotion. You might take a step back, breathe, and come back with a clearer and calmer head.

 

[rfournier103]

Didn’t Jesus die so we may all be redeemed? Do you believe there is a difference between Redemption and Salvation?

Of course I do not believe in “salvation by works”. There are many Atheists who to many good things and I think that their souls are in great peril because they deny God, and deny Jesus.

Faith in Jesus is more than just believeing that He exists, and died for us. We are called to be Christ-like. To worship Him. To worship PUBLICLY. To keep the Commandments. To be baptized. And as I said before, to love one another… the GREATEST Commandment.

Because of my FAITH in Jesus Christ, I DO all of these things because HE commands me to do them. I pray that one day God the Father and His Son may find me worthy of their GRACE, and allow me to join them in Heaven. Not because I earned it of my own accord, but because THEY decided it should be so.

Again, it sounds like you’re assuming that Protestants don’t do these things you speak of. Which is just silly. We DO do all those things because of what Christ has done for us. We also strive to stop sinning after knowing God.

Btw, this thread is moving way too fast.

I wouldn’t presume to speak of what YOU do, or what YOU know. I don’t even know what kind of Protestant you are. How can I know what you believe?

I’m telling you what I believe, and what the Church has taught ME. What I posted was an explaination of what I/we believe. Not an attack on Protestantism. This is a forum for discussion and learning. I am just discussing.

 

[Razanir]

That is what you should do, but that is not what the church sacraments say. It says the priest forgives you. What you do is what I think we should all do. I just don’t think it is required.

The priest acts in persona Christi, the same as he does during the consecration at mass.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but you call your spiritual leader a priest not an Apostle. And again correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe there were only 12 apostles.

There’s actually apostolic succession in the Bible. After Judas betrayed Jesus, the other apostles kicked him out, which meant there were only 11. Later, Paul became an apostle and took his place.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

The apostles could do this, not all future priests.

Ok friend, where does it say this you are claiming?

Let me present another example:

Matthew 28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

Who do this apply to?

 

[Remnant1]

Ok friend, where does it say this you are claiming?

Let me present another example:

Matthew 28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

Who do this apply to?

Everyone of us that profess to be Christians.

 

[jediliz]

ask him how he thinks the early Christians worshiped…did they all have leather bound bibles and sit on chairs and listen to praise bands? NOPE!

Maybe he should actually read the Acts of the Apostles

The early Church did not have leather bound bibles to read at their early years worship - the writings of the apostles and Paul had to be written down, then they had to be painstakingly copied over and over,…for at least 1000 years BEFORE the printing press was invented.

The bible does not say the bible is the only source - tell him that.

its really sad that poor catechesis leads to this type of thing

 

[Teresara]

I asked the same question and found an satisfying answer and a regeneration of my faith at the same time. I knew briefly of the schism and the Church of England’s inception; King Henry VII, - odd - all this because a King wanted a divorce. But, that’s an almost ignorant basic level and I wanted to learn more.

In my search I found an excellent book that explained to me more about my own religion than I any other source in adulthood. It instilled in me a new love of my faith - a Faith, a Church, a love. “Born Fundamentalist; Born Again Catholic” by David Currie. I inherently knew that Catholicism was my way, but never really wanted to argue about it. I just wanted calm answers and this book gives them. (and the Mary question is perfectly put to rest)

 

[chero23]

Everyone of us that profess to be Christians.

So your saying that everyone who professes to be Christian. Your SDA, my gf is too. She says that the SDA allows for contraception to be used. God says be open to life, you guys allow contraception which basically tells god, no I will have a baby on my watch not on yours.

Also some churches preach that abortion, gay marriages, etc. etc is ok, yet others say the total opposite, I.e. the Catholic Church. So if Paul said be united as 1, and their 45,000 different denominations each preaching it’s own thing whose right? Bc if everyone is,we’re god to be a confused.

 

[Remnant1]

So your saying that everyone who professes to be Christian. Your SDA, my gf is too. She says that the SDA allows for contraception to be used. God says be open to life, you guys allow contraception which basically tells god, no I will have a baby on my watch not on yours.

Also some churches preach that abortion, gay marriages, etc. etc is ok, yet others say the total opposite, I.e. the Catholic Church. So if Paul said be united as 1, and their 45,000 different denominations each preaching it’s own thing whose right? Bc if everyone is,we’re god to be a confused.

I was answering Isaiah 45-9 as to who Matt.28:19,20 is talking to. What you are talking about here is way off topic and doesn’t even address anything said here. What’s your point?

 

[Remnant1]

ask him how he thinks the early Christians worshiped…did they all have leather bound bibles and sit on chairs and listen to praise bands? NOPE!

Maybe he should actually read the Acts of the Apostles

The early Church did not have leather bound bibles to read at their early years worship - the writings of the apostles and Paul had to be written down, then they had to be painstakingly copied over and over,…for at least 1000 years BEFORE the printing press was invented.

The bible does not say the bible is the only source - tell him that.

What other source is there?

 

[KendraDZ1902]

What other source is there?

The Church.

 

[Nicea325]

What other source is there?

And where does God ever teach the ONLY source is the Bible?

 

[pablope]

Everyone of us that profess to be Christians.

Where does the Bible state this?

 

[pablope]

You confess to God and must have remorse and repent or else you will not be saved. You can fall from grace but that is between you and God, not a priest.

Where does the Bible specifically say how the manner of confession is?

Where does the Bible limit the manner of confession only directly to God?

 

[pablope]

That is what you should do, but that is not what the church sacraments say. It says the priest forgives you. What you do is what I think we should all do. I just don’t think it is required.

Christ forgives through the priest. The priest announces the absolution.

Similar to what happens here:

2Sam 12 (please read the whole chapter, will only cite this verse):

13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.”

Nathan replied, “The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the LORD, the son born to you will die.”

 

[Nicea325]

I did read the link and it actually sides with me. It admits that oral confession is an historical practice and a gradiometers of the the church, not Jesus. Also, the scripture only say we would confess orally as I agree it would be, but Jesus never said we had to in order to be saved.

Ah no! Confession goes back to the OT and pre-dates Jesus. The new convenant priesthood is prefigured or “typed” in many places in the OT. There are many examples from the OT of reconciliation and atonement being performed by a priest.

 

[pablope]

I have talked with many people about the Catholic faith and have accepted much of what is disagreed with. It is the things no one has been able to justify is what I still disagree with. On other things people have pointed to scripture that proved me wrong, but no one had been able to do that with the things I disagree with.

What are those things you disagree with? I would suggest that you start a thread on these.

 

[pablope]

That is what you should do, but that is not what the church sacraments say. It says the priest forgives you. What you do is what I think we should all do. I just don’t think it is required.

Here is a question for you…are you the authority to decide what is required and what is not required?

If not you, who is that authority to make that decision?