Why do Protestants object to Purgatory?

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The Catholic Church did NOT add those books. Martin Luther took those books OUT because of the verses that referred to purgatory. He would’ve had to take out more books for that because there are verses in the bible that refer to purgatory (my post above). He also wanted to take out James and some other books. He wanted “James” out because of the fact that it says that we are justified by our works and NOT by faith alone.
The issues were a little more complicated than this. If Luther wanted to exclude II Maccabees because it contained a verse often misapplied to justify purgatory he could have excluded just that book. Remember that the Book of Sirach has some pretty stern admonitions against image-making which Protestants could have used (and actually have used, in the case of Lorraine Boettner) against Catholic veneration of sacramental images.

The fact is that the deuterocanonical books (the proper Roman Catholic appellation for what Protestants like to call the Apocrypha) have always been understood by Christians to have lesser status than the rest of the Old Testament. Jerome left them out of early editions of his Vulgate and included them later only under pressure. Even today, Roman Catholic Bible scholars and the Church itself caution that these books are less authoritative than the rest of Scripture. Catholic apologists, of course, like to club Protestants over the head with the reference to praying for departed souls Luther was uncomfortable with the idea of having ‘lesser-inspired’ books of Scripture included alongside of ‘fully-inspired’ books. However, he actually included them in his translation of the Bible (in a separate section from either the Old or the New Testament).

Likewise, Luther’s famous criticism of James was not simply because he wanted to expunge a book which did not conform to his theology. James is in a class of New Testament books known as the antilegomena, books not universally accepted without reservation by early Church fathers. It did not help that James seemed to Luther to be out-of-character with the Pauline epistles. But it is overstatement to say that Luther sought to exclude James simply because he didn’t like James’ emphasis on works.
 
just as God could create light in an instant with a word **HE can instantly **at Judgement make us stop desiring sin. Why do we need some process to go through? Why limit God?
He could make us. The fact of the matter is, He choses NOT TO. That is why He has given us freewill 👍
 
James It did not help that James seemed to Luther to be out-of-character with the Pauline epistles
It might not be any reference to 'man being able to cancell out sins might it? Jms 5: 20
 
against Catholic veneration of sacramental images.
Why then did Paul venerate the Sacred Meal of the Body and Blood of the Lord in his admmonition of believers not receiving it worthily? 1 Cor 11: 27-31
 
He could make us. The fact of the matter is, He choses NOT TO. That is why He has given us freewill 👍
I was referring to Christians after death. You are saying that a person who is a Christian who has DIed would not will that they be free of sin and the desire to sin? I see no way in which God killing our desire to sin when the body dies would viloate our own free-will.

God has my permission to get rid of all my desire to sin NOW, and I’m not even dead yet!
 
If we do not allow God’s consuming fire to change us here on earth then God’s loving and consuming fire will change us and prepare us for Heaven in Purgatory.

Jesus wants to consume the whole world with His Fire. That fire has the power to “melt” us into the image of God. None of us are perfect and none of us can be “melted” into the image of God if we do not allow God to do that for us. As I mentioned before, if we don’t allow it here on earth then it will surely happen in purgatory. I see nothing frightful about that. Not that I want that. I’m shooting straight for Heaven but I know I am not perfect and/or clean; as nothing unclean can enter into heaven.

26 The treasure and wealth of the nations will be brought
there,
27 but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any (one) who
does abominable things or tells lies. Only those will enter
whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life. Rev 21:26-27

Sure the Blood of the Lamb redeemed me but I have to allow the Grace of Jesus Christ to work in me. If I don’t then I will not be clean.

Today’s (10-27) Gospel reading mentions purgatory.

Gospel
Lk 12:54-59
Jesus said to the crowds,
“When you see a cloud rising in the west
you say immediately that it is going to rain–and so it does;
and when you notice that the wind is blowing from the south
you say that it is going to be hot–and so it is.
You hypocrites!
You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky;
why do you not know how to interpret the present time?

“Why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?
If you are to go with your opponent before a magistrate,
make an effort to settle the matter on the way;
otherwise your opponent will turn you over to the judge,
and the judge hand you over to the constable,
and the constable throw you into prison.
I say to you, you will not be released
until you have paid the last penny
.”

Today’s (10-27) first reading is how we are to be ONE. My take on this is that God’s fire can “melt” us all into ONE. So I guess I can see it two ways; God’s fire can “melt” me into His image and God’s fire can “melt” or “fuse” us all together so that we can all be ONE just the way Jesus prayed to God the Father, that we may be ONE.

Reading 1
Eph 4:1-6
Brothers and sisters:
I, a prisoner for the Lord,
urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received,
with all humility and gentleness, with patience,
bearing with one another through love,
striving to preserve the unity of the spirit
through the bond of peace;
one Body and one Spirit,
as you were also called to the one hope of your call;
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
one God and Father of all,
who is over all and through all and in all.

If we are all to be ONE Body and ONE Faith, then why are there so many Protestant denominations? (33,000 last I heard) That just doesn’t make any sense. The Holy Spirit is definitely NOT confused. The Holy Spirit guides Christ’s Church here on earth, which is God’s Kingdom here on earth; and that is The ONE, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The Catholic Church is indeed the Church that Jesus Christ built on Peter the Rock. The Catholic Church has the guarantee of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit let the Catholic Church know about Purgatory. I will not turn my back on the Holy Spirit and say that Purgatory does not exist. Amen!
 
The only way to achieve the commandment you persistently cite is to give up your own efforts at being perfect and to receive the perfection of Christ. Otherwise you sell yourself over again to the bondage of Law and miss the grace of the Gospel.
That “Law” of which you speak is the “Law” of the OT. God still has His Laws that we have to follow and those are the Ten Commandments. They did not change to the “Ten Suggestions.”
 
That “Law” of which you speak is the “Law” of the OT. God still has His Laws that we have to follow and those are the Ten Commandments. They did not change to the “Ten Suggestions.”
They remain remain commandments, and they remain impossible to keep perfectly, making them a Law of death and destruction to all who sell themselves over to them to serve them. “Law”, however, refers to more that the Ten Commandments: there were more than 600 laws in the OT, and the NT adds even to these. The core of all of these is that one must do this and must not do that, so that even those who live outside of the covenant of the Mosaic law show themselves in bondage to Law by their creation of and adherence to systems of ethics (religious or otherwise) which can never give life nor set one free from condemnation. Only the Gospel can do this, and it does this by nailing the Law with Christ on the Cross of Calvary. This does NOT imply that Christians are set free to libertinism–by no means shall we sin because we are no longer under Law but under Grace, as Paul says–but it does mean that we have passed from condemnation to life already.
Sure the Blood of the Lamb redeemed me but I have to allow the Grace of Jesus Christ to work in me. If I don’t then I will not be clean.
You are clean already, if indeed you are Christs, I John 15:3.
If we are all to be ONE Body and ONE Faith, then why are there so many Protestant denominations? (33,000 last I heard) That just doesn’t make any sense. The Holy Spirit is definitely NOT confused. The Holy Spirit guides Christ’s Church here on earth, which is God’s Kingdom here on earth; and that is The ONE, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The Catholic Church is indeed the Church that Jesus Christ built on Peter the Rock. The Catholic Church has the guarantee of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit let the Catholic Church know about Purgatory. I will not turn my back on the Holy Spirit and say that Purgatory does not exist. Amen!
You are confusing human institutions which you can see with the Church of God which is found wherever His people gather together in Christ’s name. The 33, 000 number, btw, has been refuted on this forum repeatedly. I do not believe that it is the Holy Spirit which drives you to cling to the doctrine of Purgatory. It is your own fleshly desire to find some way to add something to the finished work of Christ on your behalf, to ‘prove’ to yourself and to God that you are worthy of Him, to ‘earn’ some measure of the free grace you have received. Your motives are commendable but they are misguided.
 
He could make us. The fact of the matter is, He choses NOT TO. That is why He has given us freewill 👍
God has made us culpable for our sins. He has NOT given us free will. You are confusing the two issues.
 
They remain remain commandments, and they remain impossible to keep perfectly, making them a Law of death and destruction to all who sell themselves over to them to serve them. “Law”, however, refers to more that the Ten Commandments: there were more than 600 laws in the OT, and the NT adds even to these. The core of all of these is that one must do this and must not do that, so that even those who live outside of the covenant of the Mosaic law show themselves in bondage to Law by their creation of and adherence to systems of ethics (religious or otherwise) which can never give life nor set one free from condemnation. Only the Gospel can do this, and it does this by nailing the Law with Christ on the Cross of Calvary. This does NOT imply that Christians are set free to libertinism–by no means shall we sin because we are no longer under Law but under Grace, as Paul says–but it does mean that we have passed from condemnation to life already.

You are clean already, if indeed you are Christs, I John 15:3.

You are confusing human institutions which you can see with the Church of God which is found wherever His people gather together in Christ’s name. The 33, 000 number, btw, has been refuted on this forum repeatedly. I do not believe that it is the Holy Spirit which drives you to cling to the doctrine of Purgatory. It is your own fleshly desire to find some way to add something to the finished work of Christ on your behalf, to ‘prove’ to yourself and to God that you are worthy of Him, to ‘earn’ some measure of the free grace you have received. Your motives are commendable but they are misguided.
I am not misguided! And neither are my motives. All that I do that is good is ONLY because of the Grace of Jesus Christ.

I am NOT confusing ANYTHING. There is only ONE Church. The TRUTH subsists in the Catholic Church. We hold the FULLNESS of Truth. If you were Baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit then you are my brother/sister in Christ but you are not in the Fullness of TRUTH.

I don’t see how you can say anything since you are a former LDS. Some of what you say is the Truth but not the Full truth. I am NOT misguided in the least. That is all I will say to you because nothing I say will open your eyes. All I can do is pray for you in the hopes of God opening your heart to the Truth of the Catholic Church.
 
I am not misguided! And neither are my motives. All that I do that is good is ONLY because of the Grace of Jesus Christ.
So far so good.
I am NOT confusing ANYTHING. There is only ONE Church.
Substantively true.
The TRUTH subsists in the Catholic Church. We hold the FULLNESS of Truth.
We have a parting of minds at this juncture.
If you were Baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit then you are my brother/sister in Christ but you are not in the Fullness of TRUTH.
I would say that if God has elected you to His Kingdom–and the evidence of your words and sentiments gives cause to believe He so has done–you are my brother/sister in Christ, notwithstanding our differences in respect to theological non-essentials.
I don’t see how you can say anything since you are a former LDS.
This is needlessly personal. Am I not permitted to have opinions because I once held erroneous ones? Have you any idea how many people you likely admire have at one time or another held to one or more wrong-headed opinions?
Some of what you say is the Truth but not the Full truth. I am NOT misguided in the least. That is all I will say to you because nothing I say will open your eyes.
My role in this thread has been to explain in reasonable terms the Reformational view of the subject of this thread. My guess is that your agenda was to win an argument or perhaps even to win a convert. My goals were relatively modest, yours considerably more ambitious, which perhaps has left you feeling a bit frustrated right now. It was not my intention to make you feel this way. The topic at hand is not one over which I think anyone’s salvation stands or falls by the way: some of my fellow Episcopalians also believe in Purgatory.
All I can do is pray for you in the hopes of God opening your heart to the Truth of the Catholic Church.
Thank you for your prayers. Please know you will be in mine as well.
 
1 John 1
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
 
1 John 1
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
There’s no doubt that Jesus purifies us from all unrighteousness. It’s the time-frame involved that is not specified in this passage. The Lord will eventually cleanse us from all sin-- he does the work.

But if you’re saying that confession ‘instantaniously’ creates in us a totally blank slate before God, then no, I don’t think that this passage means that confession cleanses us from all sin right then and there at that exact moment in time.

Sins that are confessed are cleansed.

Sins that are not confessed are not cleansed.

And in order for us to know every single sin we have ever committed and confess them before God, we would have to have an infinite intellectual capacity equivalent to God himself.

Since we don’t have an infinite intellectual capacity equivalent to God himself, God acts on our behalf (just like he always does) and will cleanse these unconfessed yet easilly forgivable sins from us in purgatory.
 
God has made us culpable for our sins. He has NOT given us free will. You are confusing the two issues.
What kind of bizarre God would make us culpable for sins that we did not freely commit?

You wouldn’t fault a robot for doing what it had been programmed to do - if it did something evil, you would punish the programmer; not the robot.

No - it is precisely because we have free will that we are guilty of our sins. Animals aren’t punished for sins because they don’t have any - they haven’t got free will, so any harm they do is purely unintentional - they have no intent with which to intend harm.
 
What kind of bizarre God would make us culpable for sins that we did not freely commit?

You wouldn’t fault a robot for doing what it had been programmed to do - if it did something evil, you would punish the programmer; not the robot.

No - it is precisely because we have free will that we are guilty of our sins. Animals aren’t punished for sins because they don’t have any - they haven’t got free will, so any harm they do is purely unintentional - they have no intent with which to intend harm.
God is not bizarre but sovereign, good and wholly just. He has not deemed it important to reveal to us how we can be predestined and culpable for our sins simultaneously. We who are Christians trust His character without reservation and trust that His choices in who is saved and who damned will be perfectly in keeping with His nature and that no one will have cause to question His sovereign decisions. He is God. We are not.
 
There’s no doubt that Jesus purifies us from all unrighteousness. It’s the time-frame involved that is not specified in this passage. The Lord will eventually cleanse us from all sin-- he does the work.

But if you’re saying that confession ‘instantaniously’ creates in us a totally blank slate before God, then no, I don’t think that this passage means that confession cleanses us from all sin right then and there at that exact moment in time.

Sins that are confessed are cleansed.

Sins that are not confessed are not cleansed.

And in order for us to know every single sin we have ever committed and confess them before God, we would have to have an infinite intellectual capacity equivalent to God himself.

Since we don’t have an infinite intellectual capacity equivalent to God himself, God acts on our behalf (just like he always does) and will cleanse these unconfessed yet easilly forgivable sins from us in purgatory.
The Bible dosn’t say “all sin right then and there at that exact moment in time.” it says “all sin” and it says it more than once.
 
Article 14. of the 25 Methodist Articles of Religion (Taken word for word from the 39 Articles of the Church of England).

The Romish doctrine concerning purgatory, pardon, worshiping, and adoration, as well of images as of relics, and also invocation of saints, is a fond thing, vainly invented, and grounded upon no warrant of Scripture, but repugnant to the Word of God.
 
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