Why do Protestants say Catholicism leads to hell?

[myfavoritmartin]

My own bias is of course toward what Christ himself says, since there’s far less chance of misinterpretation and since Christ is an authority above reproach.

Yet “call no man father” seems to be outright ignored
Thems was Jesus words as well.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Context, man, context!

When Paul speaks of the law, he is speaking of the Mosaic Law. Consider his audience.

Also consider that if your interpretation held, Paul is the world’s biggest hypocrite for having Timothy circumcised, isn’t he?

Yeah cuz it says all over in scripture that righteuosness comes by doing good works…

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Titus 3:
5** Not by works of righteousness which we have done**, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

 

[rlg94086]

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims.** “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”**

Interesting choice. Teflon asked you to show where the Catholic Church teaches that faith is unnecessary, and you choose a statement about Muslims…
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

176 Faith is a personal adherence of the whole man to God who reveals himself. It involves an assent of the intellect and will to the self-revelation God has made through his deeds and words.
177 “To believe” has thus a twofold reference: to the person, and to the truth: to the truth, by trust in the person who bears witness to it.
178 We must believe in no one but God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
179 Faith is a supernatural gift from God. In order to believe, man needs the interior helps of the Holy Spirit.
180 “Believing” is a human act, conscious and free, corresponding to the dignity of the human person.
181 “Believing” is an ecclesial act. The Church’s faith precedes, engenders, supports and nourishes our faith. The Church is the mother of all believers. “No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother” (St. Cyprian, De unit. 6: PL 4, 519).
182 We believe all “that which is contained in the word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church proposes for belief as divinely revealed” (Paul VI, CPG § 20).
183 Faith is necessary for salvation. The Lord himself affirms: “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (*Mk *16:16). 184 “Faith is a foretaste of the knowledge that will make us blessed in the life to come” (St. Thomas Aquinas. Comp. theol. 1, 2).

(…and yes, I came off the ledge…bloodvessels intact. )

So, no one took up my challenge.

A) Non-Catholics believe we are justified by Faith

B) Catholics have Faith in Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Savior

C) Therefore Catholics are justified/saved according to non-Catholics, correct?

If not, why not? Certainly, you are not going to say there is something Catholics have to ***do ***differently in order to avoid hell…

 

[myfavoritmartin]

The thief on the cross did what he could—profess boldly his faith in the Lord, and his baptism of desire was sufficient for his salvation.

Baptism by desire? I think you mean accepting Jesus the Christ as his personal Saviour. Just like what I did, furthermore I profess boldly my faith…BUT the ONLY thing sufficient for my salvation is Christs work.

Since there aren’t any “born agains” being crucified, I hope they’re out there feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting the imprisoned!

Unless you somehow think dead faith = salvation.

Your wrong, read voice of the martyrs…
Regardless as a born again believer at times I suffer because of my faith, we are told to take joy in suffering for His sake.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

C) Therefore Catholics are justified/saved according to non-Catholics, correct?

If not, why not? Certainly, you are not going to say there is something Catholics have to ***do ***differently in order to avoid hell…

Because your faith is lacking in that it makes sanctification unseperable from justification, a lack of faith is using your own works to justify yourself.

 

[rlg94086]

Because your faith is lacking in that it makes sanctification unseperable from justification, a lack of faith is using your own works to justify yourself.

You can’t support that “our faith is lacking” from Scripture. This is your opinion.

 

[kentuckyliz]

I don’t care one whit about any other person’s opinion of my eternal destiny.

I’m a Beloved Daughter of the King…a godgrrl through and through, all my life. I have no fear and don’t care what anyone else thinks.

 

[jmcrae]

There is nothing to contend with on any of these Matthew is speaking of believers and unbelievers John speaks of the “spirit” not of the flesh and James is simply showing that works justifies faith not salvation.

Every word of the Bible is written about our Salvation; there is not one word in the Bible that was put in there as “fluff” or “filler”. We must obey every commandment in it, in order to be saved; there is not one commandment in there that we are free to disobey and yet still be able to be saved.

 

[rlg94086]

You can’t support that “our faith is lacking” from Scripture.

…or the Catechism…

2005 Since it belongs to the supernatural order, grace escapes our experience and cannot be known except by faith. We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved. However, according to the Lord’s words “Thus you will know them by their fruits”- reflection on God’s blessings in our life and in the lives of the saints offers us a guarantee that grace is at work in us and spurs us on to an ever greater faith and an attitude of trustful poverty.

A pleasing illustration of this attitude is found in the reply of St. Joan of Arc to a question posed as a trap by her ecclesiastical judges: “Asked if she knew that she was in God’s grace, she replied: ‘If I am not, may it please God to put me in it; if I am, may it please God to keep me there.’”

 

[Contarini]

Well, then, you might need to define your terms, given the number who claim to be “born again” and yet do just that. That might be another thread, unless in so doing it helps explain why Protestants say those of us who do not just believe, but do as Christ bids us do, are hellbound.

Teflon,

Most Protestants do not say this.

Edwin

 

[Teflon93]

Yet “call no man father” seems to be outright ignored
Thems was Jesus words as well.

And what did you call your male parent?

 

[Teflon93]

Yeah cuz it says all over in scripture that righteuosness comes by doing good works…

It surely doesn’t say “all over Scripture” that belief is all that matters and nothing we do does. It surely doesn’t say we have no free will.

And yet somebody comes along 1,500 years too late claiming all manner of novelty, claiming to speak with the mouth of Christ, and folks fall right in line.

Which reminds me: where in Scripture does it foretell of the coming of prophets such as Martin Luther, Jean Calvin, et al?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

And what did you call your male parent?

Dead
Dad when he was alive. But carry on with the twisting i’ve done this whole debate 100 times probably.

 

[rlg94086]

Dead
Dad when he was alive. But carry on with the twisting i’ve done this whole debate 100 times probably.

Then, why did you bring it up?? Silly…it’s not even on topic.

 

[Teflon93]

Teflon,

Most Protestants do not say this.

Edwin

Fair enough—I don’t have any evidence that most Protestants believe Catholics are going to Hell for being devout Catholics.

A fair share of fundamentalists do indeed believe this, I think you’ll grant.

It’s just that here in the Bible Belt we get more than our fair share of those folks!

 

[Teflon93]

Dead
Dad when he was alive. But carry on with the twisting i’ve done this whole debate 100 times probably.

My father passed away several years ago, but, God willing, he is alive and waiting on the other side.

I hope your father is alive as well.

And since you’ve seen this debate, why engage in it? You realize that the literalism of the “call no man father” reference goes nowhere. Moreover, anyone who puts faith in their pastor over faith in God is putting themselves at risk, regardless of whether they call said person “Father”, “Pastor”, “Reverend”, “Mr.”, “Doctor”, “Brother”, or “Hey you.”

 

[myfavoritmartin]

It surely doesn’t say “all over Scripture” that belief is all that matters and nothing we do does. It surely doesn’t say we have no free will.

Scripture leans quite heavily in the faith alone catagory Tef…
: "Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life.** He who believes in me will live, even though he dies” **(John 11:25)

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned
Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and** believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life**, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jhn 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and** he that believeth on me shall never thirst. **
Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Jhn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth **and believeth in me shall never die. **
Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, **that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. **
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the **power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; **to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not,** but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness**.

Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. **
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. **
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. **
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confo**unded.

1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Moreover, anyone who puts faith in their pastor over faith in God is putting themselves at risk,

In any teacher of the word, you should double check to scripture.

 

[He_Man]

with all respect, I have only seen Catholics misquote “judge not”, I have never seen any “anti-catholic” misquote this phrase.

Basically, we look at your works – bowing to representations of creatures or statues, praying to creatures like mary or saints rather than praying to Jesus. We see these as works of those who do not know God.

You need to learn to share your testimony in such a way that demonstrates your relationship with Jesus – rather than a dependance on creatures whom can’t even hear you because Heaven is a land far away.

Isaiah 33:17
Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

Is it safe to assume you don’t have any pictures of your family in your wallet or house? Seeing as how that sort of thing is heretical, according to you.