Why do Protestants say Catholicism leads to hell?

[SORROWS]

I work with a protestant and I know how untolerant and judgemental they can be… I’m happy for a religion where Christ is the center but my gosh… to listen to the craziness this person has against Catholics without knowing a thing. No practice of christian tolerance but she does love the words…

Most of us are Catholic and we never say a word against this ones protestant beliefs but do try to explain things to her. She’s completely the opposite of christian behavior.

Catholicism is so beautiful and the prayers give me serenity and peace.

 

[jmcrae]

I’d guess you’ve not read unam sanctum?

I have, as a matter of fact; have you?

 

[jmtosh]

This is referring to Jesus; not to the Bible.

Again, this is referring to Jesus; not to the Bible.

Again, this is referring to Jesus; not to the Bible.

Aha, a vague reference to Scripture - probably a reference to the Torah, or to the Old Testament (Palestinian, or Alexandrian? No way of knowing …). No listing of the canon here, though.

You have met Jesus; that’s good.

He is referring here to the Oral Tradition - nothing of the New Testament had yet been written down (other than what he himself was writing) at this time.

Aha, I see what you’re after! Notice that I said the Word of God was before the RCC not the actual Bible, the written Word of God.

The Torah as we know was written by Moses circa 1500 BC.
Moses could have used cuneiform toledeth handed down from Adam via Melchizedek, Noah, Shem, Terah, Abraham, etc.
The book of Job could be older than that.
This book of the law later included Joshua and Judges and Ruth written by Joshua (except postscript) and possibly Samuel.

Thereafter 1 and 2 Samuel, Samuel, David and Nathan?
1 and 2 Kings by Isaiah / Jeremiah?
1 and 2 Chronicles possibly by Isaiah or Ezra?
Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther. 500s.
Psalms by David circa 1000 BC, also by Asaph, Moses, etc.
Proverbs / Ecclesiates by Solomon, Lemuel. Circa 960 BC.
The Major and Minor Prophets up to Malachi circa 400 BC (who said God would send Elijah the prophet before the day of the LORD).

The Old Testament was and is the Word of God. Isaiah referred to this word as the word of our God that abideth forever.

By the time of Christ the OT Canon was settled. Christ and the Apostles quoted it. In Jamnia in 90 AD it was settled again and closed.

By the way the OT church was called the church (congregation ) in the wilderness.

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ in 30 AD. If by the Catholic Church you mean the Universal invisible mystical body of Christ you are right. The Roman Catholic Church was NOT founded then!

In Matthew 16 Simon Peter answered Christ’s question as to who he was as Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God. Jesus answered Blessed are you Simon son of John for flesh and blood did not reveal this unto you but My Father in Heaven. And I say unto thee Thou art Petros (a stone) and upon this Petra (Rock) I will build my chuch and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever you will bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

This is certainly not the inauguration of the first papa. Christ is the Rock not Peter! For who is a Rock save our God? And that Rock was Christ. 1 Cor 10:4. The Rock of our Salvation. Peter himself calls Christ a Rock in 1 Peter. The Church was to be built by Christ on the revelation of the Father to His salvation.

The Keys were the authority of Apostolic preaching based on this revelation of Christ indeed Peter was influential in bringing the gospel to Gentiles.

The Roman church began after Pentecost when believers returned home from Jerusalem with the gospel. See Acts 2 and Romans 16. Paul later wrote to them.

In the New Testament Church the Apostles preached the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. The New Testament was being compiled at this time.

Peter refers to Paul’s writings as scripture in 2 Peter 3 : 15,16.

John wrote the last NT books being his Epistles and finally Revelation about 96 AD.

The NT Canon was compiled by the Apostles, then collated by the Church Fathers. At first 20 of the 27 books were accepted universally (there was no central authority in the Church at this time) some books like Hebrews, 2 and 3 John, Jude, James and Revelation were questioned. By start of 4th Century the Canon was accepted and was deliberated at Nice in 325, Hippo 394 AD and at Carthage in 397 AD.

Rome was the capital of the civilised world and in every metropolitan centre the Bishops of the Church were to be found such as Alexandria, Antioch, Ephesus, Carthage, etc. Note - the catholic church not the Roman Catholic Church!

In the fifth century when barbarian invasions was breaking up the empire, a series of powerful bishops known as popes succeeded in laying claim to supreme ecclesiatical supremacy. Leo the Great (440 - 461) and Gregory the Great (590 - 604) the founders of the modern papacy.

Obviously the custody of some of the scriptures passed to the Roman Church. There was also the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Donatists that rejected Sacral society and the Coptic church, inter alia.

For the Roman Catholic Church to lay claim to authoring the scriptures and claiming to be the sole and only Church that Christ founded is as ludicrous as the Jehovah’s Witnesses claiming that the first Jehovah’s Witness was Abel!!!

 

[Pixie_Dust]

jmtosh - “Roman” is one of 23 rites of the Catholic Church, properly called the Latin Rite. The Church is not now and never has been invisible. The councils that you mention canonizing the New Testament were Catholic councils.

You haven’t listened to “One Church” yet, have you?

 

[jmtosh]

Hi Pixie Dust!

Hey, you caught me out!

I guess I’ve been caught up in the flow. I am really enjoying this thread.

I will listen to One Church and revert to you!

Regards.

 

[anonymoususer]

Its as simple as this; how many Churches did Christ establish? 1, or more than 1?

OK, now, why is there more than 1 Church?

How can you have any other answer than pride?

Please let me know if there is another answer.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Everybody knows we Catholics are going to heaven. After all, the fix is in – our guy has the keys.

 

[jmtosh]

Hi,

There is only One Church and it is the body of Christ. It consists of all believers from Abel to the last convert before the return of Christ. It is not administered by man, except by the Man Christ Jesus who is the head of the body (See Ephesians Chapter 4 and Hebrews Chapter12).

I believe in a catholic church or universal church in this sense.

And now I am going to listen to One Church before I get into trouble!

 

[Gamera]

Hi, jmtosh, and welcome to the board.

…Immaculate conception of Mary (1950s)…

I got married in the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Albany, New York. It was founded in 1854. How did they know to name it “Immaculate Conception” back in 1854 if, as you claim, nobody believed in the Immaculate Conception until the 1950’s?

 

[Stephen_C]

As I read through this thread, I am amazed, sadden, flabbergasted, and disgusted. But mainly sad for you MFM. You just does not get it. Why are you here on this Catholic forum? It is not to learn what we as Catholics believe that is for sure. You all ready have that figured out. Even though we keep explaining that is not what we believe. It is not what the Catholic Church teaches. You just keep on building and fighting that straw man. Just like Don Quixote fighting windmills. Fighting the Catholic boogie man of your own creation. I must say you are really good at it. I have been out there in non-Catholic land. And believe me it was murky. The only thing I could figure out that they were united in was that they were not Catholic. The theology of “I’m not Catholic” All other “essentials” were up for grabs. Like shifting sands changing with the wind. I am also so grateful that I no longer have my faith in Christ built on shifting sand. I am home. Thank you MFM every time I read your posts, it just reminds me of how grateful I am that I have found my way back home. And out of that train wreck of “I am not Catholic” and this is why theology.

 

[vonRatzinger]

Its as simple as this; how many Churches did Christ establish? 1, or more than 1?

OK, now, why is there more than 1 Church?

How can you have any other answer than pride?

Please let me know if there is another answer.

There is no other answer. It all boils down to authority: me or the pope/magisterium. Enlightened man demands the right to create his own morality and theology: to define his own reality. He has took a large bite out of the apple and proceeded to shout angrily at the Church with his mouth full.

I cannot begin to communicate the conversion I’ve experienced since I entered the church and said “Credo Ut Intelligam” and began doing my best to live understand and live out the teaching of the magisterium. (On an interesting side note, the Catholic forums do not recognize the word magisterium as being correctly spelled. The message box is underlying every instance of magisterium as incorrectly spelled )

Everybody knows we Catholics are going to heaven. After all, the fix is in – our guy has the keys.

I love it!

 

[qui_est_ce]

Well maybe they realised that because they weren’t subject to the pope according to your church they were heretics and outside of salvation according to your church and just wanted to return the doctrinal sentiment.

I am talking about a non-denominational Bible study. I never brought up the subject of heretics or Apostolic Succession. Not sure about the “doctrinal” sentiment to which your refer?

You sound bitter against the CC. What do you mean that my fellow Bible study women were heretics and outside of salvation? Where does the CC teach that non Catholics are not saved??

 

[ufamtobie]

With all Respect, we non-protestant biblical christians see you depending on another gospel ( Gal 1:6-8 ) where you are putting your faith in Mary and in “sanits” in heaven for your prayers. We see you giving Mary or the saints creadit for what only God should get credit for like deliverance or healings. We honestly see you as having a misguided faith in anything but Jesus.

To counter this you need to learn to give only God credit.
Stop depending on Mary and the saints for your prayers.
And learn to word your testimoniies in language that we understand. Like quoting someone whom you believe is a Saint is the biggest turn off because in our view you are putting the words of that saint on par with Scriptures.

Like James says show me your works, and we know were your faith lies. We see your faith as centered on creatures ( Romans 1 ) rather than soley on Jesus the creator. This basically, comes from our concept of Jesus Alone, or Jesus Supreme.

You divorce the five Solas from each other and in doing so, you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of Salvation.

Basically, learn to look at people from their world view to see why many of us think you are unsaved. I for one try to make an effort to understand where you are coming from.

Hi Daniel,

With all respect, we Catholics see the Protestants depending on another gospel (Gal 1:6-8) where You are putting your faith in Martin Luther, Calvin and many many protestant misisters OF TODAY with their new churches that they started a day ago or a month ago, to where as there is over 30,000 protestant church alone in this country of ours not to mention all over the world each have different beliefs in the Bilbe.

(Gal 1: 6-8) was not reffering to Catholics but to the protestant reformation. We all agree that the Catholic Church is the oldest and the early Church Fathers perserved the bible. Now how is it that you protestants took away some gospels? Your early so called church fathers Martin Luther, Calvin, etc… deleted some gospels from the Original.

Daniel, We Catholics do not worhip Virgin Mary, nor the Saints. The Protestant Church and your self wants to believe this in order to try to justify the leaving the True Chuch.

About Our Blessed Mother Mary, (Luke1: 41) Now as soon as Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the child leapt in her womb.

Daniel I guess, John the Baptist must of been Catholic. John leapted for Joy and we Catholics also leap for joy regarding Virgin Mary, Is that worshiping her.? NO!

(Luke 1: 42) and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. She gave a loud cry and said 'of all women you are the most blessed, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.

Daniel, I guess the Elizabeth must of been Catholic. Was Elizabeth worshiping Virgin Mary? **NO! ** And We Catholics call Virgin Mary Blessed and we are called by the protestant church that we are a “misguided faith.”

Why did Virgin Mary go and help Elizabeth, should of Elizabeth have gone instead to Virgin Mary and Help her she was having Our Lord for crying out loud. I tell you why Virgin Mary went to help Elizabeth for 3 months God wanted to show us that Virgin Mary who was pireced by a sword for us that she to will come to our aid in time of need. Thats what a Mother Does right?

(Luke 2: 35) and you yourself shall be pierced with a sword so the thoughts of many hearts may be laid bare.

Daniel, have you ever meditated why Virgin Mary had to suffer, being pierced by a sword for us?

(Luke 1: 48) Yes, from this day forward all generations will call me blessed,

And we Catholics get blamed for worshiping Mary, Please again we do not worhip Virgin Mary!!!

(John 19: 26-27)Seeing his mother and the Disciple he loved standing near her, Jesus said to his ‘mother, Woman, this is your son’. Then to the disciple he said , This is your mother’. And from that moment the disciple made a place for her in his home.

Daniel, Like John, we Catholics have Made A HOME IN OUR HEARTS FOR VIRGIN MARY.

Please don’t Judge what you don’t know that you have not been given the Grace to know.

Ufamtobie

 

[LaSalle]

Hi,

There is only One Church and it is the body of Christ. It consists of all believers from Abel to the last convert before the return of Christ. It is not administered by man, except by the Man Christ Jesus who is the head of the body (See Ephesians Chapter 4 and Hebrews Chapter12).

I believe in a catholic church or universal church in this sense.

I never understood how come Protestants cannot see that if this is their definition of church then this ‘church’ contradicts itself on almost every point. The church teaches that baptism saves, and that it’s a symbol that doesn’t save and that it is not even strictly required and that it can only be administered to adults and that it can be administered to children as well. The devil has won!

Jesus tells us how to handle conflicts - He plainly tells us to take it to the church. How do we take anything to a church that is invisible???

Like sola scriptura - this all sounds noble and nice in theory … but when you actually try it out, you will quickly realise that it’s totally untenable.

 

[jmtosh]

Hi,

I have listened to the lecture “One Church” on this site. As our dear friend says above I cannot believe what Catholics believe about the One Church! It sounds so neat and wrapped up, no problem.

Yes, Protestants think about Catholics what Catholics think about them!

But which Church is as arrogant and intolerant as that of Rome?!

They teach there is One Catholic Church of which the Roman or Latin rite is a part, I am with them up to this point say about 440 AD (please check your history). Note that what was then known as the Catholic Church was not governed from a pope in Rome.

In the same breath they say the Roman Catholic Church is the One true Church ordained by Jesus Christ on the authority of Matthew 16.

The scriptures know no supremacy of Peter amongst the Apostles. John was that disciple that Jesus loved and Peter, James and John were part of the inner circle. In fact in the early Church in Jerusalem (Galatians 2:9) Peter, James the Lord’s brother (cousin?!) and John were pillars in the Church (see also Acts 12:17). Paul rebuked Peter to the face once over the truth of God’s grace did this mean he was being spiteful or mean to Peter.
Even if Peter was in some way over the other Apostles what does that have to do with Rome that doesn’t apply to Alexandria or Antioch?
Christ is the Rock, Christ will build His Church.

The truth is all the Church is One (the Lord knoweth those that are His) and sadly it is divided today as explained in 1 Corinthians 1:12. I am of Apollos, I am of Cephas (Peter) I am of Christ, I am of Paul. Thank God that there are Apostles in the Church today - their names are Peter, Paul, John.

The Roman Catholic Church has departed to another gospel, what would Paul or Peter say about images, rosaries, Mariolatry, crucifixes, celibacy of the priesthood, Nuns and monks, and so on not to mention the blasphemous teachings about Mary.

Yes, Mary was blessed, she had the honour of bringing the Messiah into the world but calling Mary blessed and praying to her and the saints is a completely different ball game like the children of Israel worshipping the brazen serpent!

Rome is PART of that One Catholic Church and has became an Apostate church trying to laud it over the rest of the body. It can only appeal to Church tradition and try to claim temporal power as these strange doctrines cannot be borne out by the Holy Scriptures.

Yes the Protestant Church can be thankful that God in His providence chose the Roman Catholic Church to preserve the scriptures. But we all know that until the Reformation they shut up the Word of God and kept it from the people claiming that only the clergy could interpret it and then only in Latin!!!

The truth is like many cultists they are not allowed to read the Bible without the supervision of Roman Catholic Dogma and Church tradition thereby foisting a biased viewpoint upon the Word of God.

 

[Thing]

The truth is like many cultists they are not allowed to read the Bible without the supervision of Roman Catholic Dogma and Church tradition thereby foisting a biased viewpoint upon the Word of God.

Much like the eunuch, (who was no stupid, either), was unable to interpret Scripture without the supernatural assistance of the Apostle Phillip.

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi,

I have listened to the lecture “One Church” on this site. As our dear friend says above I cannot believe what Catholics believe about the One Church! It sounds so neat and wrapped up, no problem.

Neat is why it is from God. Which is, IMO, better than the different and deficient gospel that has evolved in the last 500 years outside of the Catholic Church.

Yes, Protestants think about Catholics what Catholics think about them!

I kinda doubt that. I actually only think about you guys when you get in my face with something like this or in the real world.

But which Church is as arrogant and intolerant as that of Rome?!

A case in point. You come as a guest into a Catholic forum and make this kind of inflammatory and “arrogant and intolerant” remark and think we should receive you well? :tsktsk: Yeah. right… I don’t do that on n-C forums.

They teach there is One Catholic Church of which the Roman or Latin rite is a part, I am with them up to this point say about 440 AD (please check your history). Note that what was then known as the Catholic Church was not governed from a pope in Rome.

That’s odd, the history that I have read indicates otherwise. Better check your sources.

In the same breath they say the Roman Catholic Church is the One true Church ordained by Jesus Christ on the authority of Matthew 16.

Yep! That’s the way it works. Might have to take that up with Jesus Himself though.

The scriptures know no supremacy of Peter amongst the Apostles.

Really? That’s some “creative” theology if I ever saw any. Luke 22:31-32 certainly seems to indicate that Kephas was the head apostle. Why else would Satan have sought to sift him like wheat and the Lord Himself tell him that after he recovers from his denial to “…strengthen your brethren.”

Having specifically given him the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven is also pretty significant as well.

John was that disciple that Jesus loved and Peter, James and John were part of the inner circle. In fact in the early Church in Jerusalem (Galatians 2:9) Peter, James the Lord’s brother (cousin?!) and John were pillars in the Church (see also Acts 12:17).

Where do you see any of these others listed in first position in a list of the apostles? It was customary to list the head man first.

Pillars of the church does not give them primacy as the Lord did with St. Peter.

Paul rebuked Peter to the face once over the truth of God’s grace did this mean he was being spiteful or mean to Peter.

This is the most irrelevant argument you could make. Paul rebuked him for a personal action, and not as one in equal or greater authority, nor on a doctrinal matter. Has happened several times throughout history, because Popes are still human.

Even if Peter was in some way over the other Apostles what does that have to do with Rome that doesn’t apply to Alexandria or Antioch?

Better check your sources again. Someones feeding you a line there. Those same churches have surviving verifiable writings that support what you have denied.

Christ is the Rock, Christ will build His Church.

Never get an argument from faithful Catholics about that, just that you are arguing against Our Lord Himself about a choice that He made.

The truth is all the Church is One (the Lord knoweth those that are His) and sadly it is divided today as explained in 1 Corinthians 1:12. I am of Apollos, I am of Cephas (Peter) I am of Christ, I am of Paul. Thank God that there are Apostles in the Church today - their names are Peter, Paul, John.

Nice rhetoric…poor theology and history though.

The Roman Catholic Church has departed to another gospel,

Not so at all.
Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?
**
(Cont’d)
**

 

[Church_Militant]

what would Paul or Peter say about images, rosaries, Mariolatry, crucifixes, celibacy of the priesthood, Nuns and monks, and so on not to mention the blasphemous teachings about Mary.

Not a blessed thing, except maybe to rebuke you for decrying them.

There are no “blasphemous teachings about Mary” or " Mariolatry" among faithful Catholics or in the teachings of the Catholic Church, though I’m sure that whoever fed you this load of hooey wishes there was.

The rest of that can be easily answered by articles in the Catholic Answers LIBRARY

Yes, Mary was blessed, she had the honour of bringing the Messiah into the world but calling Mary blessed and praying to her and the saints is a completely different ball game like the children of Israel worshipping the brazen serpent!

Typical hogwash! You err not knowing the scriptures or the power of God.
The Communion of Saints

 Biblical foundations and explanations to common questions

Rome is PART of that One Catholic Church and has became an Apostate church trying to laud it over the rest of the body. It can only appeal to Church tradition and try to claim temporal power as these strange doctrines cannot be borne out by the Holy Scriptures.

More a-C rhetoric without a basis in facts.

I can and have responded to all this kind of propaganda before with facts and scriptures.

Yes the Protestant Church can be thankful that God in His providence chose the Roman Catholic Church to preserve the scriptures. But we all know that until the Reformation they shut up the Word of God and kept it from the people claiming that only the clergy could interpret it and then only in Latin!!!

More total hogwash!
Did the Catholic Church Keep the Bible From Being Translated Into the Vernacular Languages?

The truth is like many cultists they are not allowed to read the Bible without the supervision of Roman Catholic Dogma and Church tradition thereby foisting a biased viewpoint upon the Word of God.

More propaganda without the least factual basis.
Do Catholics Read the Bible?

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi, jmtosh, and welcome to the board.

I got married in the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Albany, New York. It was founded in 1854. How did they know to name it “Immaculate Conception” back in 1854 if, as you claim, nobody believed in the Immaculate Conception until the 1950’s?

 

[Jimsdun]

Hi
I am Catholic and I get annoyed when I see on other forums other Christians saying Catholicism leads to hell.
Why do they say this?
Please reassure me because sometimes I get worried about it,.

The more Evangelical and Fundementalist Christians always insist that Christianity is personal. For some reason they are unable to comprehend that Catholics can have a personal relation with Jesus (and many Catholics don’t). They think that all the rituals and liturgical whatnot detracts from this personal relationship. Therefore many of them say that a person cant have a personal relation with Jesus and be a Catholic at the same time.