Why Do Protestants Shun Mary?

[rfournier103]

The Catholic Church has never accepted Our Lady as co-mediatrix, nor should it.

I have also heard her called “mediatrix of all graces”. I don’t care for that one, either.

There is only one mediator between God and ourselves and that is Jesus Christ, Our Saviour and our God. Mary, for whom I have the greatest love and devotion, would want it no other way.

I agree.

 

[Vanny]

I have also heard her called “mediatrix of all graces”. I don’t care for that one, either.

I agree.

Yeah I think that term scares a lot of protestants.
good to see it’s not meant the way it sounds

 

[Magdalena59]

I have also heard her called “mediatrix of all graces”. I don’t care for that one, either.

I agree.

I think most people don’t understand Catholic church teaching about Mary and that would be why it doesn’t sound good.

catholic.com/magazine/articles/mary-mother-of-salvation Mary, Mother of Salvation - co-Redemptrix.

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm Mary, mediatrix of all graces

Or understand the importance of the Mother and King relationship even in Old Testament times.

And the king arose to meet her, bowed before her, and sat on his throne; then he had a throne set for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right. 20Then she said, “I am making one small request of you; do not refuse me.” And the king said to her, “Ask, my mother, for I will not refuse you. 1 Kings 2:19

 

[JoeT777]

Oh, but one comment on this!

The Genuine community which is not associated with Protesting the Church, is not necessarily adding anything to the drink. They preach and practice a more simple Gospel.

This is why I have been comforted and learned about God in a community like this. I only believe that there is fundamental simplicity within the Cat Church too! But more to grow into. And the genuine Christian communities not in full communion with Rome don’t realize that they are able to enjoy the faith they have because they stood on the things established through the Catholic Church.

There are many, many good Christians who have behavior and ministries that would help the Catholic Church! Division has its negative affects for sure, but its doesn’t mean there is enmity and complete disunity with the denominations.

I don’t want to be blamed for derailing the thread, I’ll leave it to you to perhaps reconsider in another thread.

Mary has appeared to the Catholic faithful. This seems to be sure. But she also appeared to a Calvinist community ourladyofsiluva.org/our_lady/

Interesting story, it shows there is still hope for people to reunite with the Church through Mary.

JoeT

 

[Marty100]

Catholicism has always held a special place of veneration (not worship) for the importance of Mary in Christian theology.

When, why, and who were the first Protestants to begin the shunning of Mary in their theology?

Protestants do not shun Mary, they simply are careful not to show her worship. The difference between veneration and worship are a hairs breadth apart.

Mary is talked about Evangelical churches all the time she just doesn’t have prayers dedicated to her.

 

[JamalChristophr]

With my friend, the main reason is that what Catholics believe about Mary is difficult to prove scripturally to non-Catholic satisfaction or simply not in the Bible.

 

[JoeT777]

Protestants do not shun Mary, they simply are careful not to show her worship. The difference between veneration and worship are a hairs breadth apart.

Mary is talked about Evangelical churches all the time she just doesn’t have prayers dedicated to her.

How is one ‘careful not show her worship’? Does this mean they really worship Mary under the sheets - but never in the presence of others? Or, does it mean they don’t show the honor due the Mother of God? Do they even call Mary the Mother of God?

IF Mary was not Immaculate, ever Virgin mother of God, then Jesus Christ could not be both Divine and human. In my way of thinking, if she were not Immaculate then we must understand that He was ‘created’ God/man and we know only men are created but God is not ‘created’. How do the Evangelical Churches reconcile this dichotomy? Does God reside in the womb of sin, does He take on sinful flesh, or is He ‘made’ God after being born?

JoeT

 

[bsy]

Catholicism has always held a special place of veneration (not worship) for the importance of Mary in Christian theology.

When, why, and who were the first Protestants to begin the shunning of Mary in their theology?

Because Protestants believe that Jesus is the sole mediator between God & man; some Catholics call the Virgin Mary co-mediatrix.

Because Protestants believe that Jesus it our Redeemer; some Catholics call the Virgin Mary co-redemptrix.

Because Protestants believe that when one dies, they no longer have any knowledge of what’s happening on earth; Catholics believe that the Virgin Mary & saints can interceed for us.

Because Protestants believe that Jeremiah condemned Queen of Heaven as a pagan goddess; and Catholics gave Virgin Mary the title Queen of Heaven.

Because Protestants believe that we are committing the errors of John,

Revelation 22:8-9 "It is I, John, who heard and saw these things, and when I heard and saw them I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me.
But he said to me, “Don’t! I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brothers the prophets and of those who keep the message of this book. Worship God.”

 

[rstrats]

JoeT777,
re: " Or, does it mean they don’t show the honor due the Mother of God?"

If Mary is the mother of God, who is the father of God?

re: “IF Mary was not… ever Virgin…then Jesus Christ could not be both Divine and human.”

Why is that?

 

[GaryTaylor]

JoeT777,
re: " Or, does it mean they don’t show the honor due the Mother of God?"

If Mary is the mother of God, who is the father of God?

re: “IF Mary was not… ever Virgin…then Jesus Christ could not be both Divine and human.”

Why is that?

You lost me.

Mary did not provide Jesus with either his divine nature or his immortal human soul, she is still his Mother because she did not give birth to a body, a soul, a nature, or even two natures—she gave birth to a Person. And that one Person is God.

catholic.com/magazine/articles/how-can-mary-be-god%E2%80%99s-mother

God wasn’t astonished one day that man had fallen and sinned, then decided to act. He already knew and acted. It was predestined from all eternity - mans redemption. In fact its biblical. The ending is already known, Christ comes to judge the living and the dead. Thats not a prophecy, its already reality. Its happening in time for us.

 

[Per_Crucem]

God wasn’t astonished one day that man had fallen and sinned, then decided to act. He already knew and acted. It was predestined from all eternity - mans redemption. In fact its biblical. The ending is already known, Christ comes to judge the living and the dead. Thats not a prophecy, its already reality. Its happening in time for us.

Indeed, the same Jesus Christ - crucified, risen, ascended, ruling and coming again - presides in our midst weekly in the sacrifice of the Eucharist. We partake of a reality that shall endure to the point of overthrowing all over attempts at reality. The fulness of the future kingdom in our midst today.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Indeed, the same Jesus Christ - crucified, risen, ascended, ruling and coming again - presides in our midst weekly in the sacrifice of the Eucharist. We partake of a reality that shall endure to the point of overthrowing all over attempts at reality. The fulness of the future kingdom in our midst today.

I think the Constitution of the Church touches on all this in Chapter VIII.

1. The Virgin Mary, who at the message of the angel received the Word of God in her heart and in her body and gave Life to the world, is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and Mother of the Redeemer. Redeemed by reason of the merits of her Son and united to Him by a close and indissoluble tie, she is endowed with the high office and dignity of being the Mother of the Son of God, by which account she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit. Because of this gift of sublime grace she far surpasses all creatures, both in heaven and on earth. At the same time, however, because she belongs to the offspring of Adam she is one with all those who are to be saved. She is “the mother of the members of Christ . . . having cooperated by charity that faithful might be born in the Church, who are members of that Head.”(3*) Wherefore she is hailed as a pre-eminent and singular member of the Church, and as its type and excellent exemplar in faith and charity. The Catholic Church, taught by the Holy Spirit, honors her with filial affection and piety as a most beloved mother.

1. Wherefore this Holy Synod, in expounding the doctrine on the Church, in which the divine Redeemer works salvation, intends to describe with diligence both the role of the Blessed Virgin in the mystery of the Incarnate Word and the Mystical Body, and the duties of redeemed mankind toward the Mother of God, who is mother of Christ and mother of men, particularly of the faithful. It does not, however, have it in mind to give a complete doctrine on Mary, nor does it wish to decide those questions which the work of theologians has not yet fully clarified. Those opinions therefore may be lawfully retained which are propounded in Catholic schools concerning her, who occupies a place in the Church which is the highest after Christ and yet very close to us.

But since it has pleased God not to manifest solemnly the mystery of the salvation of the human race before He would pour forth the Spirit promised by Christ, we see the apostles before the day of Pentecost “persevering with one mind in prayer with the women and Mary the Mother of Jesus, and with His brethren”,(296) and Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation. Finally, the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all guilt of original sin,(12*) on the completion of her earthly sojourn, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory,(13*) and exalted by the Lord as Queen of the universe, that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords(297) and the conqueror of sin and death.(l4*)

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

 

[rcwitness]

I think the Constitution of the Church touches on all this in Chapter VIII.

Those quotes are excellent.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Those quotes are excellent.

:tiphat:

 

[rstrats]

GaryTaylor,
re: “You lost me.”

JoeT777 wrote that if Mary wasn’t always a virgin, then the Messiah could not be both Devine and human. I am asking why she had to always be a virgin in order for that to be the case?

 

[Per_Crucem]

I think the Constitution of the Church touches on all this in Chapter VIII.

The akathist hymns capture it well.

Hail, O you, through whom Joy will shine forth!
Hail, O you, through whom the curse will disappear!
Hail, O Restoration of the Fallen Adam!
Hail, O Redemption of the Tears of Eve!
Hail, O Peak above the reach of human thought!
Hail, O Depth even beyond the sight of angels!
Hail, O you who have become a Kingly Throne!
Hail, O you who carry Him Who Carries All!
Hail, O Star who manifest the Sun!
Hail, O Womb of the Divine Incarnation!
Hail, O you through whom creation is renewed!
Hail, O you through whom the Creator becomes a Babe!
Hail, O Bride and Maiden ever-pure!

 

[rcwitness]

The akathist hymns capture it well.

Hail, O you, through whom Joy will shine forth!
Hail, O you, through whom the curse will disappear!
Hail, O Restoration of the Fallen Adam!
Hail, O Redemption of the Tears of Eve!
Hail, O Peak above the reach of human thought!
Hail, O Depth even beyond the sight of angels!
Hail, O you who have become a Kingly Throne!
Hail, O you who carry Him Who Carries All!
Hail, O Star who manifest the Sun!
Hail, O Womb of the Divine Incarnation!
Hail, O you through whom creation is renewed!
Hail, O you through whom the Creator becomes a Babe!
Hail, O Bride and Maiden ever-pure!

Unfortunately, we dont have an audio clip option to hear you.

I wouldnt doubt for a second that I may shun Mary more than yourself!

Peace to you Per Crucem

 

[GaryTaylor]

GaryTaylor,
re: “You lost me.”

JoeT777 wrote that if Mary wasn’t always a virgin, then the Messiah could not be both Devine and human. I am asking why she had to always be a virgin in order for that to be the case?

She is virgin, Luke, scripture. God who redeems man is sinless, He can’t be what He is not. No more than dark can be light. He doesn’t become sin to redeem man, He becomes man to redeem man from their sin. Or as ST Athanasius stated;

He takes a body of our Nature, and that of a spotless Virgin, in whose womb He makes it His own, wherein to reveal Himself, conquer death, and restore life.

Mary was virgin, He didn’t have to do anything including create us. Mary was prepared by God to be the new Ark. Which was also pure. She was sanctified or baptized prior. His sinless human nature came from Mary.

 

[Per_Crucem]

Unfortunately, we dont have an audio clip option to hear you.

I wouldnt doubt for a second that I may shun Mary more than yourself!

Peace to you Per Crucem

And to your spirit!

(I wish I could take credit for that hymn, and you wouldn’t want to hear me sing it!)

 

[GaryTaylor]

From above Lumen gentium-VIII-Queen of Heaven. Then this helps with deeper understanding.

The Venerable describes it thus:

In the second place, the angels were informed that God was to create a human nature and reasoning creatures lower than themselves, in order that they too should love, fear and reverence God, as their Author and eternal Good. They were informed that these were to stand in high favor, and that the second Person of the blessed Trinity was to become incarnate and assume their nature, raising it to the hypostatic union and to divine Personality; that therefore they were to acknowledge Him as their Head, not only as God, but as God and man, adoring Him and reverencing Him as God-man. Moreover, these same angels were to be His inferiors in dignity and grace and were to be His servants. God gave them an intelligence of the propriety and equity, of the justice and reasonableness of such a position. For the acceptation of the merits foreseen of this Man-God was exhibited to them as the source of the grace which they now possessed and of the glory which they were to obtain. They understood also that they themselves had been, and all the rest of the creatures should be created for His glory, and that He was to be their Head. All those that were capable of knowing and enjoying God, were to be the people of the Son of God, to know and reverence Him as their Chief. These commands were at once given to the angels. (n. 89)

The paragraph above is loaded, one to be read through carefully and reflected upon. As my algebra teacher used to tell us about story problems: “Read, reread it, and re-reread it.” It is pointless to start the algebra if the story is not clear!

The main theme is this – the headship of Christ over the Angels. Revealing this to the angels was indeed a fail proof test of their humility and charity. They knew the divine beauty of their Creator, the Most Holy Trinity; they also knew their own dignity and beauty as His illustrious creatures; but now they would see the humility of their Creator and be called to humbly serve. The decree of God, even before creating, was that the second Person of the Trinity should be incarnate of the Virgin Mary and that all creation should be subject to Him as King and Head. In effect, this meant that a lower nature, namely that of man which is made up of spirit and matter, was to be exalted above the purely spiritual nature of the angels and that the angels were to serve and adore Him – not only as their God, but even in His human nature, that is, they were to be subject to Him as both God and man.

absoluteprimacyofchrist.org/