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Mickey
Guest
Oh My, how depressing. Which denomination locks up the Word in the Church? I’ll be sure to avoid those people.
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Eden
Guest
We didn’t have the printing press for over a thousand years. Our history goes back 2,000 years, you see. It was expensive and time consuming to copy the Word of God which was done, lovingly by hand for over a thousand years by monks. Many people were illiterate and heard the Word of the Lord. Do you find that deficient? If they attended Mass daily for three years, they would have heard the entire Bible - including the books you are missing.
"During the medieval period, books were written and decorated on parchment, a type of animal skin. Most parchment came from cow skins which were prepared through an elaborate process that involved soaking, scraping, drying and treating the skins. The finest quality parchment, noted for its thin and supple character, was called vellum. Once the necessary number of vellum skins were prepared and cut to size for pages, they were then marked along both margins with small pinholes. Using these holes as a guide, lines were then inscribed or drawn on the page to establish the layout for the scribes and decorators.
Following this, a calligrapher or scribe would write on the parchment with a reed or feather quill pen. In the early Middle Ages, the best quills came from several varieties of geese found off the coast or England. The scribe used an ink derived either from carbon soot or gall nuts. In one method, carbon soot from beeswax candles or linseed oil lamps was combined with gum arabic to produce an indelible black ink. In the other, gall nuts, the swollen nodules produced by certain insects living in oak trees, was mixed with iron salts, making an ink which eventually turned brown from exposure to the atmosphere.
While the main body to the text was usually written in black or brown ink, colored lines of writing, called rubrics (from the Latin rubrica meaning red), were most often, but not always, written in red. Rubrics served as instructional guides to the reader, providing descriptive headings and marking divisions in the text. Rather than write original works spontaneously onto the page, medieval scribes, more often than not, copied their work from model texts, called exemplars. When the text was completed, the manuscript was decorated or illuminated in the blank spaces the scribe had intentionally left for the illuminator."
That would have been impossible to create a Bible for every household by this method!
www.swaen.com/medieval.htmlPHPAUCTIONXL_SESSION=08e286c1005acaaf35687bd871f2347a
http://www.swaen.com/img/90011.jpg
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Church_Militant
Guest
Exactly!Yes. Once you read the Scriptures, and then read what the earliest Chritians wrote, and then see the continual teaching up until the reformation, everything becomes quite clear.
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sadie2723
Guest
My thanks to Mickey! Thank you so much for proving one of my points for me!
This is one of the classics, “That Catholics are not allowed to read the Bible, that the Church has discouraged reading the Bible, and that the Church has restricted Bible access.”
I love this one, and there is a reason why. Because it is a total load of …well, you get the point. The bottom line is that THIS is what I am talking about all the time. There are Prot Churches out there that teach this kind of thing to their people. They teach lies about us when they do this. And this kind of lie has to be stopped.
In point of fact, the Catholic Church has never restricted access to the Bible or discouraged study of scripture. This is backed up in the Catechism, in Church history, and in world history. Yet, there are churches out there that teach otherwise…why? Well, first they would like to have anything approaching our membership. Second, because they too are just teaching based on what they have been told by obviously erronious sources, and are doing nothing to educate themselves. And finally, because they are engaging in a practice that has been going on for 500 years: Justifying the heresy of the Reformation. Let us remember, that it is impossible to justify, but the attempts at doing so are what keep them in business.
Thanks again Mickey!!!
This is one of the classics, “That Catholics are not allowed to read the Bible, that the Church has discouraged reading the Bible, and that the Church has restricted Bible access.”
I love this one, and there is a reason why. Because it is a total load of …well, you get the point. The bottom line is that THIS is what I am talking about all the time. There are Prot Churches out there that teach this kind of thing to their people. They teach lies about us when they do this. And this kind of lie has to be stopped.
In point of fact, the Catholic Church has never restricted access to the Bible or discouraged study of scripture. This is backed up in the Catechism, in Church history, and in world history. Yet, there are churches out there that teach otherwise…why? Well, first they would like to have anything approaching our membership. Second, because they too are just teaching based on what they have been told by obviously erronious sources, and are doing nothing to educate themselves. And finally, because they are engaging in a practice that has been going on for 500 years: Justifying the heresy of the Reformation. Let us remember, that it is impossible to justify, but the attempts at doing so are what keep them in business.
Thanks again Mickey!!!
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Alfie
Guest
Do Catholics really read the Bible on their own or do they read it under the supervision of a priest? Catholics often accuse Protestants ol listening to the preacher’s interpretation but that isn’t always true. Technically, Catholics don’t really need to study their Bible when the priest tells them everything they are to believe.
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djrakowski
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I listened to my pastor, week after week, read scripture and give interpretations that were so plainly in opposition to the “plain teachings of scripture.” I started reading about the theology of Catholicism, and found that the Catholic Church was more Biblical than my Bible Church! Believe me, I tried HARD to deny it. So, from the perspective of someone on the road to conversion, I didn’t listen to anyone tell me what the Bible said and/or meant, and yet still ended up agreeing with Catholicism. And many, many converts have said the very same things.
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sadie2723
Guest
An excellent point. There is no need for a Catholic to study the Bible if that Catholic follows exactly the teachings of the Pope and the Church. However, it is still encouraged and can be done without the supervision of a priest. I do it all the time, and so do many of my friends. I think that it is important for all Catholics an Christians to do so.
Ok, so what is not good to do on your own? What you must never allow yourself to do is interpret scripture in a manner that does not follow the teaching of the Church. Remember, the Pope is without spot or blemish on those matters, and it is not for us to interpret. When we allow ourselves to interpret, we fall to error. We all so fall to our own bias…this is why we now have some Prot churches teaching that abortion is ok. They have strayed from the teaching of the Catholic faith to appease their congregations, increase their memberships, and keep the collection plate full.
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Alfie
Guest
Why would you read about the theology of the Catholic church when all you had to do was read your Bible and ask the “Holy Spirit” for discernment and guidence? This is just a red herring argument on your part.
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djrakowski
Guest
Really? I read my Bible, and let the Holy Spirit guide me, and it guided me into the Catholic Church.
I must sincerely ask, by what authority do you accept the Bible? Who told you what it should contain? When your interpretation of a scripture differs from that of your pastor (or whomever teaches from the Bible in your church), how do you determine which of you is right, and which is wrong (hint: you can’t both be right, but could easily both be wrong).
Please, and again I say this in all sincerity - explain, as no Protestant has been willing to do on these forums, why the same Holy Spirit guides Christians through the same Bible and gives them such radically different conclusions. And, then share with us how such radically different conclusions resemble any sort of Christian unity. Please don’t tell me that you ‘agree on the essentials,’ because different groups (heck, different individuals within the same group) won’t even agree on those!
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sadie2723
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Please tell me where you find in the Bible where Jesus says that if an individual prays and reads the Bible that all questions will be answered?
Let me save you some time…he does not do so. Why? Well, it should be obvious…20,000 + Protestent denominations out there that can’t agree on a thing. Obviously all of that prayer for interpretation guidance is doing wonders. Maybe what the Lord is really saying is something more along the line of this, "Hey, why don’t you read that Bible and you will see the answer…that the correct interpretations will come from the Pillar and Foundation of truth…the Church. Read on a bit more and you will find the answer to the next question, “Ok, Jesus, which church then.” Because, as you might notice, Christ only establishes one.
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RyanL
Guest
Surely you’re joking, right? The HS will guide you infallibly into all Truth if you just ask? Why, praytell, are there Protestant Bible Colleges? Surely it’s not to learn about theology or “proper” Biblical interpretation! After all, that’s what the HS is for! (Wait - did your pastor go to Bible College? Why?)
Wait - why is there even a Bible at all? Why not just have the HS magically poof the understanding into our heads with a prayer? What’s the point of the intermediate step of a book?
Seriously - what’s the point of having a book at all?
God Bless,
RyanL
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Church_Militant
Guest
Another completely wrong perception of Catholicism! Where DO you get this stuff!!! Who told you this? Seriously?! You need to plant your foot in their backside and …
As if we have to have supervised permission in order to read the Word of God!
Alfie, hangin’ out with you is like a study in “Anti-Catholic Rhetoric 101” or something!
It really would be funny if I wasn’t sure that you are serious! 
If you get any farther afield in your ideas about the Catholic faith, I’m afraid you’ll just drift off into space and out past Pluto.
Faithful Catholics read the Bible on their own and study it in groups at church.
From my own parish’s website:
Here’s the link to today’s Mass readings.
I probably have more copies and translations of the Bible than most n-Cs, and as you have discovered… I know my Bible pretty well; having read it many times all the way through. All 73 books. I read it daily.
Technically…you still don’t have a clue what you are talking about.
Pax tecum,
P.S. How’s your wire?
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Church_Militant
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This is not true either Alfie…
If what you say is true then can you tell us that you completely understand the book of Revelation?
Do you agree with everything that is preached at your church? Why not? Your pastor uses that same technique that you supposedly do. If you disagree, then how do you know who is right? Maybe he has a degree in theology from some school.
And what about some friend of yours who says that a passage of scripture says something that you disagree with, and yet he says he has “read your Bible and ask the “Holy Spirit” for discernment and guidence?” These are not just Bible questions but theological and doctrinal questions that need to be resolved with truth. But if you all comply with your stated system and then disagree (You can go ahead and multiply this situation by every n-C church and every member of their congregation to see where this has got the post reformation step-children so far.), who is right? And if you are all teaching this to others, and obviously some of you are dead wrong…then what?
One great thing about being Catholic is that I can take any given passage of the Word of God and if I don’t understand it, go looking for what Christian history tells us that the believers before me said about that topic and passage.
Example:The Eucharist actually becoming the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. (Bible passages cited here. ) and then I can read what Ignatius of Antioch said about it here and see that it’s the same thing. If I encounter someone who says that these passages mean something else or who simply disagrees with me on them, I don’t have to freak out, because I know that I am in line with not only the Word of God but the teachings of the early church. This is the work of the Holy Spirit, who has preserved not only the Word of God but the teachings of the church for 2,000 years to insure that we do not stray. As Jesus promised us!
Which system has the best assurance of discerning the truth?
Pax tecum,
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Mickey
Guest
Church Militant:
This is a good point. I cannot respond to most of Alfie’s posts because they are sooooo misrepresentative of what Catholicism teaches, that I can’t discern whether he’s joking or not!Alfie, hangin’ out with you is like a study in “Anti-Catholic Rhetoric 101” or something!
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sadie2723
Guest
Church Militant:
The Protestants have used this kind of logic for years agains the Catholic Church.
That pretty much says it all. Hey, I have an idea, I am going to make up a few statements, not back them up with any facts what so ever, and lets see if we can get people to take them seriously.
- Becoming a Protestant will lead to sexual dysfunction.
- Becoming Protestant will make you rich.
- If you become Protestant and then jump off a building, you will discover that you can fly.
- All Protestants believe that if they study the Bible that they can become invisable.
The Protestants have used this kind of logic for years agains the Catholic Church.
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Eden
Guest
Alfie, has the Holy Spirit given you the charism of infallibility or can you make errors when speaking on matters of faith and morals?
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sadie2723
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Good question. I can make bold factless assertion number 6 now:
- If you become Protestant, you become infallible!
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NonDenom
Guest
Hi
I am not a Protestant because I’m not protesting Christ’s church.
I don’t believe that the Catholic church is Christ’s church but rather Christ’s church is catholic, or his universal church. I belong to His church.
In Him and Him Only
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tilis
Guest
Hello my brother. Well this may sound nice and flowery, this is in no way consistent with History. Read the writings of the Early Christians. They did not believe as you do.
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montanaman
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LOL.
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