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O.S.Luke
Guest
Untrue. And bigoted.
Why Do Protestants think They Know Everything There Is To Know About The Catholic Faith?
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hays1122
Guest
I under stand your point about protestants and about them seeing the light 500 yrs. ago. But don’t be so hard on those protestants who don’t understand the Catholic faith. Since really there’s a lot about the Catholic faith that is not discussed openly. Not even now and here.
For instance the fact that many of the Catholic prayers said to Mary are prayers that Mary herself asked people to pray.
When protestants ask,“Why do you say the Rosary?” or “Why do you pray to Mary”.
A catholic will not say,“We pray to Mary because Mary appeared to many and declared the way they should pray.”
They try to come up with bible verses that really don’t answer the question. There is no where in the bible that says,". . . Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able still to save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in me will be saved."
Mary said this to Sister Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa,in 1973.
Prayer of Our Lady of Akita
And another one is:
The Virgin of Revelation-1947- Bruno Cornacchiola saw the virgin Mary.At that point, the Virgin of the Revelation taught him the sure means of salvation, for him and for and all mankind, which is prayer, and in particular the daily recitation of the Holy Rosary. “Pray much and recite the Rosary for the conversion of sinners, of unbelievers and of all Christians.” As a reward to those souls who would listen to her message of prayer for the salvation of mankind, the Virgin promised great favors from Heaven. “In this place of sin I shall perform wonderful miracles for the conversion of unbelievers.”
Protestants should just be directed to these documents which are available online. Then they’d understand things more clearly.
There are many more of these visions of Mary the Mother of God.
She declares herself the divine trinity.
The daughter of God,mother of his son and spouse of the Holy Spirit.
I don’t claim to know “everything” about the catholic church. I only know what I have read here and at a great catholic website:
In Defense of the Cross
Come Back and Inherit the Kingdom of God. Features Apparitions of Christ & Mary, Photos of Signs, Wonders, Miracles, Powerful Prayers, Prophecy
indefenseofthecross.com
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mercygate
Guest
One must distinguish approved against nonapproved private revelations. The web site you name here appears to be pretty “clean” although the apparitions listed include both approved and not-yet-approved appearances, and at least one that is extremely questionable.
No apparition that declared Mary “the divine trinity” would be approved. Period.
Moreover, NO Marian teaching that comes from an apparition is ever proposed for belief by Christians de fide. No Catholic is required to believe as an article of faith anything not already part of the deposit of faith that is revealed in an apparition. Marian dogmas that have been affirmed in private revelations (such as the Immaculate Conception) are not BASED on the apparition.
Apparitions play a larger role in popular piety and devotion, serving largely for the edification of the faithful.
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hays1122
Guest
THE JUDGEMENT OF THE BISHOP.
To conclude, the Bishop said : “There is thus a direct link between the cures and the Apparitions, the Apparitions are of divine origin, since the cures carry a divine stamp. But what comes from God is the truth! As a result, the Apparition, calling herself the Immaculate Conception, that Bernadette saw and heard, is the Most Holy Virgin Mary! Thus we write: the finger of God is here.” And the Bishop making reference to the declaration of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception by Pope Pius IX at the end of 1854 states : “Then about three years afterwards, the Virgin Mary appeared to a child telling her: ‘I am the Immaculate Conception…I want a church built here in my honour’. Does this not appear that she wants to confirm, by a monument, the infallible word of the successor of St. Peter?” Then, following the invoking of the Holy Name of God we have the text of the mandate carrying the official recognition of the Apparitions that we cited at the beginning.
This tell me that because of what Bernadette saw,the Immaculate conception is declared catholic dogma.
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ralphinal
Guest
You are backwards. The dogma was defined PROIR to the apparition at Lourdes, not afterwards. If anything, it shows that the dogma is binding in Heaven as well as on earth.
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mercygate
Guest
But the apparition did not “create” the dogma, which was already held as a well-atriculated belief, although it was not yet declared ex cathedra to be held de fide by all the faithful. The apparition affirmed it and, as with Jesus, who said, “the works which the Father has granted me to accomplish, these very works which I am doing, bear me witness that the Father has sent me.” (Jn 5:36), the healings at Lourdes bore witness to the authenticity of the apparition.
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churchcamefirst
Guest
If you truly believe this about the Blessed Mother, why aren’t you Catholic?
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hays1122
Guest
The reason I am not Catholic is the same reason why so many Catholics aren’t Protestant.
We were raised by our parents to believe what they taught and if we questioned their beliefs we were accused of not honoring them.
And much worse,maybe questioning what our pastor taught us from God’s word. Both Catholics and Protestants teach their children that the church only teaches them what the word of God says. And we are not to go against God’s word.
I was not allowed to read books on other religions. I was not allowed to show an interest in other religions. If I asked a question about something that maybe a friend said,I was told that my friend was wrong. And of course it was explained with bible in hand.
Once I bought an old Catholic bible and was so pleased that I would be able to read those missing books not found in my King James version. My mother said I should burn it! I did not want to burn it so I gave it to my pastor. Even he didn’t believe it should be burned. But I respected my mother enough to at least not keep it.
I’m sure there are many who find their way to a certain denomination during their adulthood. Without a parent insisting they follow certain teachings.
But you asked me why I am not Catholic. And I answered your question honestly. Now as an adult and with the WIDE WORLD WEB, thank God I can ask questions and do my own research.
I can read anything I want and find out for myself the answer to my questions. That’s why even in here when I read something someone says,I look it up to confirm it’s accuracy.
I pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide my way. As I am sure many here both Catholic and Protestant do as well.
I’m not here to bash the catholic faith,I am here to learn from Catholic believers.
And I am disappointed when I ask a question and don’t get an answer. Like my question was,Why don’t Catholics point out these miracles. Why don’t they point out the fact that Mary herself has appeared to many. Why not mention that Mary has called herself the Queen of Heaven. Mary has asked that the rosary be said many times for our salvation. She talks about St.Michael interceding for her. I have read so many amazing stories and I don’t understand why Catholics aren’t more verbal about them.
OK,I answered your question. Maybe someone will answer mine.
Jesus is Lord!
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hays1122
Guest
So why not say that when Protestants question why Catholics worship Mary. Instead of just saying,we do not worship Mary.
Maybe say, We do not worship Mary but we honor her because she has actually appeared to many. She has appeared in a way that there is no mistaking the vision is of Mary. And Mary herself told these saints or ( name the person) her wishes.
I really can’t understand it. If something amazing happens you tell it to as many people who will listen. Instead I had to wait till I discovered EWTN to learn about the saints. Then hearing about the saints I looked them up online. Then I really learned the whole story.
I had heard of the virgin of Guadalupe since I was a child. But why was there a virgin of Guadalupe? What did that mean?
Now I find out the story through reading on the internet. Why is that? Why didn’t every Catholic kid I ever met tell me the story of
Juan Diego.
Or of a nun named Catherine who saw Mary and the fact that her body is preserved perfectly.She died more then one hundred years ago. And her body can still be viewed.
And even more recently this sister Agnes I wrote about earlier.
This happened in 1973 in Japan. Mary herself says,". . . Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able still to save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in me will be saved."
I also understand that some of these apparitions were not approved by the pope. But there are some that have been approved by the pope at the time. And scientists and doctors have performed tests to prove or disprove the claims.
Talk about these things.
I have been thinking of starting a thread on this topic. You think that I’d get some answers then?
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SIA
Guest
So then based on your response, you must believe that all Protestants are the same.
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O.S.Luke
Guest
He does, SIA. He thinks we’re all anti-Catholic and ignorant.
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Pug
Guest
I was going to say that I dislike it when (some) Protestants lump themselves all into one category, like there is no such thing as an entire Protestant denomination that doesn’t agree with whatever their point is, or that there is no such thing as Christian groups out there that do not identify themselves as Protestant (or Catholic).I am tired of some (some=not all) Catholics lumping all Protestants into the same category. I don’t think I know everything about the Catholic faith. I also have a lot of appreciation for Catholicism.
Just because I am not Catholic does not mean I am against the Catholic Church. Good grief.
Then I figured it is some type of simplification scheme, that makes it easier to talk without defining everything in some tedious way, but very often it ends up obscuring stuff instead. Or, perhaps it is a habit of language based on how words are used by the people with whom they most often discuss religion. I’m sure my previous paragraph has all sorts of stamps in the language like that. It is certainly conditioned by talking on forums.
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mercygate
Guest
Hey! maybe you got a late start, but you seem to be doin’ pretty good! God love ya!
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mercygate
Guest
This is why ecumenical discussions cannot be generalized: we must always remember that we are speaking to individual human beings, and even if they may self-identify as espousing a version of their denominational (or nondenominational) profession, it is likely that unless they can wield a fistful of credentials or have been officially entrusted with the task of interdenominational dialogue, they hold some pretty idiosyncratic views.
I DO think it is extremely common for non-Catholics – perhaps most especially those who left the Church before their 15th birthday – to claim that they “know all about the Catholic Church” yet hold the most ridiculous notions imaginable.
It is also common for people to read a document or teaching of the Church and to miss a critical nuance. This is particularly true when people get hold of the most readily available English translations of the canons of the Council of Trent. Many go in “lookin’ for trouble” – and of course they find it, even when it is not there.
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churchcamefirst
Guest
I believe that I know for a fact no Protestant was around until only 500 years ago. Even Luther, Calvin etc…were ALL Catholic monks. Everything was Catholic. If this is the case and it was still the case at the times when Christ walked the earth, then Catholicism has to be the faith Jesus founded. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out. Just because Luther and others thought they saw some mistakes with the Catholic church, doesn’t mean they are correct. Luther was NOT around when Christ walked the earth, but St. Peter was, therefore the keys to the Kingdom were given only to him, and Catholics have an unbroken link from the man. The first pope, Peter.
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churchcamefirst
Guest
There have been many threads started on the Blessed Mother and her apparitions. But you get these people, even Catholics here who are afraid to talk about them for one reason or another.
I think some do not really believe in her apparitions, therefore the negative responses. I believe in them, as a Catholic, I must believe. I was in Medjugorjie where I believe she is still appearing. Millions of conversions to the Catholic faith still going on there. You must experience it in order to comment. Others here are sceptics. Why don’t you start a thread about it?
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mercygate
Guest
Truth need not be surly. “The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control.”
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O.S.Luke
Guest
Church reads his faith - and the Catechism - selectively, Mercy.
Lord have mercy on us all.
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Pug
Guest
Your comment reminds me of the Joint Declaration on Justification between Catholics and clearly only some Lutherans, based upon the response it received, for one. Not that I mean to imply I think Lutherans are a homogeneous group.
I agree that each person that you or I talk to must be treated as him or herself, treating on their own views.
About your 15 yr old comment, I don’t wonder if it is partly due to a young person’s tendency to believe what they are told, absorb it into their views, and move on. But I was very uncritical as a child and I tend to assume others were as well.
Maybe kids just assume that what they see is what there is, and this carries the concept of knowing about it into their adulthood.
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SIA
Guest
Your whole Catholic or bust attitude is really starting to test my courtesy and patience toward you. You clearly know very little outside of your circle and it is also clear that you do not want to and I really don’t care, but I am really getting sick to death of being put into the same category as others who do not share hardly anything in common with me and I would wish that you could educate yourself at least to the point of seeing folks that are something other than RCC in a somewhat respectable way before you go off spewing your holier than thou attitude toward them.
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