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simple_soul
Guest
Thank you
This was somewhat helpfull if you know of any other sources I could pull from please send them my way.
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This was somewhat helpfull if you know of any other sources I could pull from please send them my way.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
Since there is already a forum on the Eastern Churches and since this one is specifically identified as being for issues of Roman Catholic Traditional Spirituality there is indeed every reason to believe that it refers to traditional Latin Catholicism since Latin Catholicism refers to Roman Catholicism.
I wonder why you feel the need to constantly interject Eastern Catholicism onto a forum dedicated to traditional Roman Catholic issues.
In other words, "Get to the back of the bus and ride back to your ghetto."
I wonder why you feel the need to constantly interject Eastern Catholicism onto a forum dedicated to traditional Roman Catholic issues.
In other words, "Get to the back of the bus and ride back to your ghetto."
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brigid12
Guest
Was that the charity that Christ wished us to use?
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Freshman88
Guest
I have never understood this mentality that some Easterners have of feeling marginilized. I grew up with an Ukrainian Catholic family and never came across it until I came across internet forums. Why do you always have to assert your rite?
And the Eastern rites can be called many things but it is certainly not a ghetto.
Hospodi Pomiluj!
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simple_soul
Guest
Are you kidding?
Have you not read the other threads and forums? If you have then you might understand if you don’t understand then you are “willfully blind”. Yes I know we are supposed to turn the other check but as some but it when I was young “you only have two checks”.
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brigid12
Guest
When both cheeks have already been turned than I believe what He’d have wanted for me to do (if possible) was to refrain from saying anything - rather like He did much of the time during His trial.Are you kidding?
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
I always thought it was introduced by Moses’ rules for the Passover meal in Exodus 12:15
and followed by Jesus in the First Mass
Matthew 26:26
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simple_soul
Guest
You might be correct but then that would contradict what you have in your signature “…and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?” Micah 6:8When both cheeks have already been turned than I believe what He’d have wanted for me to do (if possible) was to refrain from saying anything - rather like He did much of the time during His trial.
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pyropam
Guest
We kneel in the presence of our Lord.
If you saw the Lord Jesus standing face to face with you, wouldn’t you kneel?
Well, he is right in front of us during the time we are kneeling.
Every knee shall bow. Jesus himself said this.
If you saw the Lord Jesus standing face to face with you, wouldn’t you kneel?
Well, he is right in front of us during the time we are kneeling.
Every knee shall bow. Jesus himself said this.
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simple_soul
Guest
Honestly, I hope I go to Him like a child goes to his mother or father. Arms streached out and lifted up to Him trusting that He will pick me up to be with Him forever!
P.S. this did not answer my OP. Do you have any information that would help me understand when and why the Latin Rite started kneeling?
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Rawb
Guest
Yes, if I’m understanding you correctly. I, for one, have never heard a lot of griping about irreverence in Eastern Liturgies. That may honestly be due to the fact that I’ve not spent a lot of time around Eastern Catholics, or in the Eastern Catholicism forum (there isn’t an Eastern Catholic Church near me, unfortunately).
It’s not that kneeling is, in and of itself, a posture of respect and reverence, but that culturally, in the west, it is. It has more of the proper connotations than standing. To do away with kneeling makes a statement, in the west, that is not in harmony with the attitude we should have at Mass.
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1catholic
Guest
Don’t know but the best advice I’ve gotten in confession was to kneel every night beside my bed and pray
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graceandglory
Guest
“every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”
Just as an aside, when I was evangelical, we used to pray, “Lord, we bow our knees in our hearts to you…”
and now I’m thinking, is it too hard to like literally BOW YOUR KNEE???
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simple_soul
Guest
OK, Three questions. What are the more proper connotations than standing and is this for only the West? What statement would be made if kneeling was done away with? And what is the attitude we should have at Mass and again is this only for the West?
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Aramis
Guest
Mostly… however, many traditionalists are dismissive of the Eastern Rites’ traditions as well.
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Rawb
Guest
I’m not sure I’m understanding you here. Kneeling has more of the proper connotations than standing; it incorporates reverence, respect, devotion, love, and supplication. Yes I’m speaking in the west, where these connotations exist. In the east, the same meaning may not be attached to kneeling, and that’s fine. The east and west are not interchangeable in symbolism.
It would, to the average pew goer, reflect a break with our traditional and orthodox understanding of our relationship to God. Standing has never, in the west, in any shape or form, been a posture of petition or supplication for example. It is more traditionally a posture of equality. This would feed into the modern New Age ideas of “we’re all God”, and this needs to be avoided at all costs in our particular time when these ideas are so popular.
Yes we stand at other times, but these are broken up by kneeling. I’m not saying standing is bad at all times, but we need to counterbalance it with kneeling. Having us kneel at some parts and stand at others gets rid of the connection of “equality” that is in standing by counter effecting it with connections to being servants and adorers.
The attitude we should have at Mass is a Christ centered devotion, adoration, and reverence, in both East and West.
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simple_soul
Guest
Why are symbolisms not interchangeable?
I have never heard of the “New Age Ideas of we’re all God”. What does that meen and why must it be avoided at all costs.
what is standing as an “equality” meen?
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simple_soul
Guest
I know this I just do not understand what the “big deal” is if you are doing it standing or sitting or kneeling as long as you are centering devotion, adoration, and reverence to God. If it all comes down to “personal choice” why is it such a bad “idea” to grow closer to God with dignity, respect, devotion, adoration, and reverence while one is standing instead of kneeling?
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Rawb
Guest
Symbols are never interchangeable between cultures. For example,. in America holding up two fingers can mean peace or “V for Victory” or counting to two. In England, the same two fingers means what the middle finger does in America. Different meanings for symbols.
It is a popular idea in our society to think that we all have a ‘divine spark’ or something of being a god inside of us. This is absolutely false, but because it’s so prevalent, we need to be extra careful to avoid encouraging it.
It means that when two people are standing with each other during a ceremony, it historically meant that they were equal. In the west, we still have that. Seeing eye to eye and all that.
It absolutely does NOT come down to a ‘personal choice’. Personal, individual religion, “Just me and God” is a protestant phenomenon. Catholicism is much more based on the Christian community. In the privacy of your own home, where how you pray is your choice, stand, sit, kneel, what have you. In Mass however, we are worshiping as a community and there are rules, set forth in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) that says we are to kneel. It says to kneel because of the connotations of that posture. Some people have tried to get rid of kneeling, but it is not their decision to make.
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simple_soul
Guest
Is it not a personal choice when one decides to be Roman Catholic, Traditional Catholic or Eastern Catholic? If it is not a personal choice then what is it? Is it Enlightment of the Holy Spirit and then it is a personal choice if you listen to it or not? Like having “free will” to love God or not?
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