Why Do Roman Catholics Kneel?

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Julie_L said:
On the “Catholic Encyclopedia” website. It says:

“The practice of kneeling during the Consecration was introduced during the Middle Ages, and is in relation with the Elevation which originated in the same period.”

Hope this helps.
Jules
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This is a very good answer, and satisfactory to me. The discipline can change with our saints and popes, bless their souls, have brought us many to enrich our lives and praise God. I expect 100 years from now when everyone is kneeling all the time someone on CAF will right in; “When did it change from standing to kneeling? I want to know the exact date.” LOL I am thankful for our saints that started wonderful traditions starting with the apostles.
 
JustaServant said:
“Worship” in the Bible means to bow, kneel, and prostrate one’s body and heart.
Hi Servant I agree with you, so nicely put

One cannot change the meanings of words. East and West Catholics kneel, as do Orthodox and Anglicans.
It does not mean sitting in a pew and staring at a preacher or a worship band.
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. Nice blog, I was away for 40 years and back for 3 1/2 now. You have a good testimony.
It is also wonderful for your wife and daughter to come into union with you and thankful for the blessed Mary intercessions. God Bless and be with you and your family. It was heartening to read your blog.🙂
 
simple_soul said:
The only reason I would like to know is for my own conscience sake. Period!

The OP is why do “Roman Catholics Kneel”. Not why do “Christians Kneel”.
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I’m confussed…why would Catholics kneel for different reasons than protestants? Christian worship and the biblical examples and theological of kneeling as a prayer and reverential posture is the same for both Protestant and Catholic is it not? So why make a point of the distinction in the “OP”?

Also, how would knowing “when” kneeling in Mass started effect your conscience? Just curious.
 
simple_soul said:
I do kneel in prayer sometimes in private and sometimes in groups but never at Divine Liturgy unless it is a Presanctified Liturgy durring Great Lent.
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Then you must not believe Christ is before you in the Blessed Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist…I think we’ve solved the mystery.
 
Walking_Home said:
This is what you did: You set up two points in time line—the past and the present. The past is (St. Augustine–standing being “the” proper form)---- the present is (John Paul II) . Now you needed the present to agree with the past . You applied what was not there and made the present (John Paul II) agree with the past (St. Augustine) via “sharing the same insight” of standing being “the proper form”. So now it’s —“why was the celebration of Liturgy changed”-- when both the past and the present agree. In other words–why did the Latin Rite fall of the track (kneel) —when the past and present agree that standing is “the proper form” for the Liturgy.
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Wow! you really do give me more credit than I am due.

I guess I did not totally understand the depth of that statement. I think my subconscious must have picked up on something I was not totally aware of. When I finally realized what you were saying, I had to go back and reread the Dies Domini and I sought council on it.

After rereading the Dies Domini and talking to a few people about it I do realize that there really was more truth in that statement and you seemed to have known it before I did. I still do not believe that Pope John Paul II would have “dismissed” the Theology of St. Augustine on standing durring Divine Liturgy since it took three long chapters to explain it. If you read the whole letter you will see that the first three chapters lead up to that 1st paragraph in the 4th chapter. In the second paragraph, he does not “dismiss” St. Augustine’s theology of standing he just acknowledges that there are other particular ritual forms, which can vary in time, depending on Church discipline." On a side note I did not know that standing durring Liturgy was an approved discipline in the Roman Catholic Church again. Or is it?

I sincerely had no intention of trying to “set-up” anyone. I just wanted to know why Roman Catholics are so passionate about kneeling instead of standing durring a Liturgy. I pesonaly, after witnessing how the Eastrern Churches that I have been to celebrate Divine Liturgy and after understanding the Theology behind it that Pope John Paul II explained so eloquently, would not choose to kneel. Standing, for me, encompasses so much more of Who and What God is and what Jesus Christ did for us. After rereading the Dies Domini I can say for myself that I understand it more clearly now than I did before.

Because I could not understand why kneeling would be better I decided to ask the question “Why do Roman Catholics Kneel” so that I could be sure that I did not miss some other Great Theology that would convince me that I should kneel durring Divine Liturgy. Again it was not to “set-up” anyone. If you really feel this is what I intended to do then please forgive me for not making myself clearer in what I was asking or saying.
 
simple_soul said:
Wow! you really do give me more credit than I am due.

I guess I did not totally understand the depth of that statement. I think my subconscious must have picked up on something I was not totally aware of. When I finally realized what you were saying, I had to go back and reread the Dies Domini and I sought council on it.

After rereading the Dies Domini and talking to a few people about it I do realize that there really was more truth in that statement and you seemed to have known it before I did. I still do not believe that Pope John Paul II would have “dismissed” the Theology of St. Augustine on standing durring Divine Liturgy since it took three long chapters to explain it. If you read the whole letter you will see that the first three chapters lead up to that 1st paragraph in the 4th chapter. In the second paragraph, he does not “dismiss” St. Augustine’s theology of standing he just acknowledges that there are other particular ritual forms, which can vary in time, depending on Church discipline." On a side note I did not know that standing durring Liturgy was an approved discipline in the Roman Catholic Church again. Or is it?

I sincerely had no intention of trying to “set-up” anyone. I just wanted to know why Roman Catholics are so passionate about kneeling instead of standing durring a Liturgy. ** I pesonaly, after witnessing how the Eastrern Churches that I have been to celebrate Divine Liturgy and after understanding the Theology behind it that Pope John Paul II explained so eloquently, would not choose to kneel. **Standing, for me, encompasses so much more of Who and What God is and what Jesus Christ did for us. After rereading the Dies Domini I can say for myself that I understand it more clearly now than I did before.

Because I could not understand why kneeling would be better I decided to ask the question “Why do Roman Catholics Kneel” so that I could be sure that I did not miss some other Great Theology that would convince me that I should kneel durring Divine Liturgy. Again it was not to “set-up” anyone. If you really feel this is what I intended to do then please forgive me for not making myself clearer in what I was asking or saying.
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You are again pulling the same setup. You are using our late Pope John Paul II and make him fit what you want. The theology of the document was Not the standing --but focuses on the day itself—Sunday–and keeping Sunday holy.
 
Walking_Home said:
You are again pulling the same setup. You are using our late Pope John Paul II and make him fit what you want. The theology of the document was Not the standing --but focuses on the day itself—Sunday–and keeping Sunday holy.
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Exactly and to drive the point home about keeping Sunday holy, why did he use
St. Augustine’s Theology ( out of all of our early Church Fathers) for his main focus and point of reference?
 
simple_soul said:
Exactly and to drive the point home about keeping Sunday holy, why did he use
St. Augustine’s Theology ( out of all of our early Church Fathers) for his main focus and point of reference?
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And right after John Paul II mentions St. Augustine --he made the statement that disciplines change. So there is nothing to back you up that John Paul II “shared the same insight” that you have attributed to him. You on your own have applied this the the late Pope.
 
Walking_Home said:
And right after John Paul II mentions St. Augustine --he made the statement that disciplines change. So there is nothing to back you up that John Paul II “shared the same insight” that you have attributed to him. You on your own have applied this the the late Pope.
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I believe you are incorrect about that. I just learned the other day that I am not the only one that believes this and I have also learned that the Roman Catholic Rite has allowed standing to be practiced in her Churchs. Even in Italy and she has always allowed the Eastern Catholics that I know to hold onto thier discipline of standing.

On a side note. If you still think this is a “set-up”. It is not on my conscience.
 
simple_soul said:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home View Post
You are again pulling the same setup. You are using our late Pope John Paul II and make him fit what you want. The theology of the document was Not the standing --but focuses on the day itself—Sunday–and keeping Sunday holy.
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I am not saying that the Eastern Catholics are to kneel . They have their own traditions and we have ours. And I will state again --you are** using **our late Pope and make him fit what you want.
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Walking_Home said:
I am not saying that the Eastern Catholics are to kneel . They have their own traditions and we have ours. And I will state again --you are** using **our late Pope and make him fit what you want.
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And I will say again. I am not taking just what the late Pope had to say. I am also taking into account how the Roman Catholic Church is today.
 
simple_soul said:
And I will say again. I am not taking just what the late Pope had to say. I am also taking into account how the Roman Catholic Church is today.
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You can deny it all you want–it does not change the fact-- that the late Pope did **not **say what you attribute to him. In the Latin Rite–we kneel, sit, and stand during different parts of the Mass. So what’s next —you are going to dig up another document that you can **then read into it what it does not say **–and turn it against our sitting during Mass.
 
Walking_Home said:
You can deny it all you want–it does not change the fact-- that the late Pope did **not **say what you attribute to him. In the Latin Rite–we kneel, sit, and stand during different parts of the Mass. So what’s next —you are going to dig up another document that you can **then read into it what it does not say **–and turn it against our sitting during Mass.
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You are so wrong to imply that the Latin Rite does not ever stand durring the whole Liturgy. If you google it you can find eye witness accounts of it being done in the Latin Rite. I have even spoken to people who have verified this information.

As for sitting, now you have me thinking we should not even be sitting. I guess one step at a time and I will leave it in God’s hands and in the hands of those that He left in charge.
 
simple_soul said:
You can deny it all you want–it does not change the fact-- that the late Pope did not say what you attribute to him. In the Latin Rite–we kneel, sit, and stand during different parts of the Mass. So what’s next —you are going to dig up another document that you can then read into it what it does not say --and turn it against our sitting during Mass.

You are so wrong to imply that the Latin Rite does not ever stand durring the whole Liturgy. If you google it you can find eye witness accounts of it being done in the Latin Rite. I have even spoken to people who have verified this information.

As for sitting, now you have me thinking we should not even be sitting. I guess one step at a time and I will leave it in God’s hands and in the hands of those that He left in charge.
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Don’t now if such cases do happen --but even so —that may have much to do as to why our Current Pope Benedict XVI (you’ve heard of him right?) is making the effort to brings back our traditions including kneeling. Frankly --I find it quite disrespectful for you to use the late Pope the way you have —and it is also quite disrespectful to our current Pope.

Tell you what --you be the Eastern that you are – and leave us be the Latins that we are.
 
simple_soul said:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home View Post
You can deny it all you want–it does not change the fact-- that the late Pope did not say what you attribute to him. In the Latin Rite–we kneel, sit, and stand during different parts of the Mass. So what’s next —you are going to dig up another document that you can then read into it what it does not say --and turn it against our sitting during Mass.
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One more thing “simple soul”—thank you for outing your agenda. Your thread here was not about learning about us —our organic growth and development. On the contrary --you came here as judge and jury --to manipulate and “point” out your idea - that the Latin Rite to you-- “has fallen of the tracks”.
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Linuse said:
Kneeling (not genuflecting) started here in America. My guess is that when we as Catholics saw the puritans and quackers put pews AND kneelers in their meeting halls, we thought that was a neat idea. The irony is that we kept both the kneeler and the pew and the protestants did not.
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What is a quacker? Can’t be Quaker…they never had kneelers as far as I know and I was Quaker for many years before coming home to the Catholic Church.
 
Walking_Home said:
One more thing “simple soul”—thank you for outing your agenda. Your thread here was not about learning about us —our organic growth and development. On the contrary --you came here as judge and jury --to manipulate and “point” out your idea - that the Latin Rite to you-- “has fallen of the tracks”.
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Again, you give me way too much credit. I do not understand your “I’m out to get you” mentality. Or your “hiden agenda” mentality. I will leave that between you and God.

What I do know is that I look at the whole Church as “organicaly growing and developing”. It is allways understanding her Truths more deeply. I accept the Church in it’s organic growth and development. Do you?

I have alot of friends who are trying to understand the “organic growth and develpoment” that is happening in the Church and they are in great conflict with it. So yes for thier sake I was trying to undrstand this "growth and development by asking questions on this forum.
I have never said anything about kneeling being wrong. All I do know is that I do not understand it and I am trying to so that I can help others understand. Does that make kneeling wrong. I do not think so. I think the Church has way to much integrity and guidence from the Holy Spirit for that. Why the Church grew in understanding in the Holy Spirit’s guidence that kneeling was a good discipline I do not know that is what I was trying to understand. In trying to understand it I came across the Dies Domini and in using it to defend my reason for standing you helped me to see something I did not know and I had to seek council about it. I will have to say I was quite shocked that John Paul II sharred the same Theology that St. Augustine had. I will look to the Church for guidence and will find that guidence if it is there. If it is not there I will pray and try to understand why.

I will however not let accusations go unanswered I will try to defend myself the best way that I can. So when Halos1in2horns asked “what I did” I answered Him.
If you do not like the information I find in defending myself then again I leave that between you and God.
I did not even want to get into this conversation but you started it when I responded to Halos1n2Horns. So you tell me who *really * has a “hidden” agenda or a “set-up” agenda here.

As for Using Pope Benedict XVI, I do not meen any disrespect to him. I have not had time yet to read the link that you sent me because of all the accusations you keep sending my way. But I keep searching the Holy See to try and find something he has said on this subject so by all meens, please if you find something post it and give me some time to read it.
 
Walking_Home said:
Don’t now if such cases do happen --but even so —that may have much to do as to why our Current Pope Benedict XVI (you’ve heard of him right?) is making the effort to brings back our traditions including kneeling. Frankly --I find it quite disrespectful for you to use the late Pope the way you have —and it is also quite disrespectful to our current Pope.

Tell you what --you be the Eastern that you are – and leave us be the Latins that we are.
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Yes I have heard of Pope Benedict XVI. I do hope he does bring back the respect that the Liturgy truly deserves in the places that “seem to have lost it”. Weather it is by kneeling or standing I am sure he will be guided by the Holy Spirit. Also do not worry I will be Eastern and you I hope and pray will still be a Latin. I just hope and pray that we both grow with the Church and not against her.
 
simple_soul said:
Again, you give me way too much credit. I do not understand your “I’m out to get you” mentality. Or your “hiden agenda” mentality. I will leave that between you and God.

What I do know is that I look at the whole Church as “organicaly growing and developing”. It is allways understanding her Truths more deeply. I accept the Church in it’s organic growth and development. Do you?

I have alot of friends who are trying to understand the “organic growth and develpoment” that is happening in the Church and they are in great conflict with it. So yes for thier sake I was trying to undrstand this "growth and development by asking questions on this forum.
I have never said anything about kneeling being wrong. All I do know is that I do not understand it and I am trying to so that I can help others understand. Does that make kneeling wrong. I do not think so. I think the Church has way to much integrity and guidence from the Holy Spirit for that. Why the Church grew in understanding in the Holy Spirit’s guidence that kneeling was a good discipline I do not know that is what I was trying to understand. In trying to understand it** I came across the Dies Domini and in using it to defend my reason for standing you helped me to see something I did not know and I had to seek council about it. I will have to say I was quite shocked that John Paul II sharred the same Theology that St. Augustine had. ** I will look to the Church for guidence and will find that guidence if it is there. If it is not there I will pray and try to understand why.

I will however not let accusations go unanswered I will try to defend myself the best way that I can. So when Halos1in2horns asked “what I did” I answered Him.
If you do not like the information I find in defending myself then again I leave that between you and God.
I did not even want to get into this conversation but you started it when I responded to Halos1n2Horns. So you tell me who *really * has a “hidden” agenda or a “set-up” agenda here.

As for Using Pope Benedict XVI, I do not meen any disrespect to him. I have not had time yet to read the link that you sent me because of all the accusations you keep sending my way. But I keep searching the Holy See to try and find something he has said on this subject so by all meens, please if you find something post it and give me some time to read it.
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Don’t you ever tire of putting your words into our late Pope’s mouth.
 
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