Why Do So Many Government Programs Fail?

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How so? School vouchers will further exasperate the isolation of various races. While widening the acheivement gap. We’ve already seen evidence of this, in the Charter school system in North Carolina. Needless to say, this is a giant step backwards.

ATB
 
How so? School vouchers will further exasperate the isolation of various races. While widening the acheivement gap. We’ve already seen evidence of this, in the Charter school system in North Carolina. Needless to say, this is a giant step backwards.

ATB
So it is your contention that when provided a choice people will not send their kids to the best school, but will instead send their kids to some school where they are a majority?

I am uncertain the economics there works.

Or are we talking the unusual and extreme case here?
 
How so? School vouchers will further exasperate the isolation of various races. While widening the acheivement gap. We’ve already seen evidence of this, in the Charter school system in North Carolina. Needless to say, this is a giant step backwards.

ATB
On the contrary; it is needful to explain. Could you elaborate on the North Carolina experience?
 
So many government programs fail because government can’t solve something economists call “The Mother’s Dilemma”. It goes more or less like this.

Mother has “X” dollars. She has one very small child, two middle-sized children, a husband and a cat. She has enough money to buy a finite amount of milk and bread. She, herself, loves a pudding dish. Her husband and she eat toast for breakfast. Her two middle-sized children need bread for their school lunches and for an after-school snack. The cat loves milk, her husband likes milk in his coffee. The cat doesn’t need bread and neither does the baby. She doesn’t have enough money to satisfy all conceivable wants. So, she allocates just enough money to get just enough bread for two toasts in the morning, four sanwiches at noon and two in the afternoon.

She then allocates the remaining money this way. She gets enough milk for the baby’s needs completely, enough for one glass each for the school-age children after school, a tiny bit for her husband’s coffee, none for the cat because the cat is going to get the leftovers from a fish dinner, and defers making the pudding until she has more money at her disposal.

Mother can solve the “Mother’s Dilemma” because she knows exactly what every need is, and knows how to allocate in a way that satisfies needs, though not necessarily all wants.

Government is inherently incapable of solving it because it knows nothing about her, her baby, her school-age children, her husband or her cat, and has no idea how to allocate what each really needs. But when it attempts to do so, it hires numerous bureaucrats to distribute; too much here, too little there, it subsidizes milk to ensure a sufficient supply and to please dairy farmers besides, then ends up turning it into cheese that sits in storage for years because nobody wants it, subsidizes wheat that nobody wants, then sells it below cost to some third world country whose farmers go broke because they can’t compete. It dumps some of the cheese into school lunch programs in order to get rid of it somehow. The schools try to use it up by putting it in everything, then people get angry because the children are getting obese. And the government spends astronomical amounts of money doing those things, wasting a great deal of it, whereas Mother spends exactly the proper amount.

There is a formulation that I like. It goes like this: Income from labor + Income from property=Consumption + Transfer payments. Consumption for a lot of people is only somewhat elastic. Transfer payments preferred by most people are those which they transfer themselves; to children, to spouse, to charity, to Church. And when individuals decide on their own Transfer payments, they do so in a far more p(name removed by moderator)ointed (and useful) way than does government.

When government takes more and more of Transferrable income, it makes it ever harder for even Mother to solve the “Mother’s Dilemma”, notwithstanding that she’s better at it than the government is. At some point, the government decides that Mother can no longer solve it, takes more of the family’s Transferrable income, spends it on bureaucrats and political allies as well as on the needed resources, and warps the situation even more.
 
… At some point, the government decides that Mother can no longer solve it, takes more of the family’s Transferrable income, spends it on bureaucrats and political allies as well as on the needed resources, and warps the situation even more.
The government’s goal all along is not to satisfy everyone’s needs but to gain control of all the wealth. This was the theme of Orwell’s Animal Farm.

“Previous generations of social experimenters have caused unimaginable misery for millions of people. None of them have ever been held accountable.”
 
My theory is that gov’t programs fail because that is exactly what they are designed to do. Solving problems does not create jobs. Creating more problems creates more jobs. The success of gov’t programs is not measured by how well it actually solves problems but by how many people it puts to work.
 
The success of gov’t programs is not measured by how well it actually solves problems but by how many people it puts to work.
But at some point the government is going to run out of other people’s money to pay for these jobs.

I would suggest the government should stay out of the jobs business altogether.
The economy would hum along fine if the government got out of the way of small business and left the job creation to the entrepeneurs.
 
A lot of words there. I think the real threat of school vouchers is segregation.

ATB
The racial issue: Discrimination under a voucher plan can be prevented at least as easily as in public schools by redeeming vouchers only from schools that do not discriminate.
 
👍👍
The government’s goal all along is not to satisfy everyone’s needs but to gain control of all the wealth. This was the theme of Orwell’s Animal Farm.

“Previous generations of social experimenters have caused unimaginable misery for millions of people. None of them have ever been held accountable.”
 
👍
My theory is that gov’t programs fail because that is exactly what they are designed to do. Solving problems does not create jobs. Creating more problems creates more jobs. The success of gov’t programs is not measured by how well it actually solves problems but by how many people it puts to work.
 
👍👍
But at some point the government is going to run out of other people’s money to pay for these jobs.

I would suggest the government should stay out of the jobs business altogether.
The economy would hum along fine if the government got out of the way of small business and left the job creation to the entrepeneurs.
According to Adam Smith and Thomas Jefferson, Government’s role is an umpire, not a participant!

Adam Smith and Thomas Jefferson saw concentrated government power as a great danger to the ordinary man.
Three documents that support this view.
  1. Virginia Declaration of Rights – 1776
  2. U.S. Bill of Rights – 1791
  3. Separation of Powers (Executive, Legislative and Judicial)
 
Completely unfair to compare the two. Parochial schools have a choice of which students they accept. Public schools, not so much. But, your right. Catholic schools are some of the finest.👍
Well, I don’t really believe the difference is all in the students. Acceptance standards at most Catholic schools (at least here in Cleveland) are pretty darn poor. I went to public school for 8 years and Catholic school for high school. I did not see any difference in mental talents between the kids. If anything, my Catholic school had worse students, being on the outside of Cleveland and receiving plenty of low income broken household students, compared to my white picket fence public school which was a couple dozen miles removed from the city.

But we graduated 100% at my Catholic high school. My class at my local public school graduates a meager 70-80%. There is no way the difference here is between students. I can attest to the mastery of education that Catholic schools bring to the table compared to state funded public schools which quite honestly don’t give two craps about the lives of their students. And that was the biggest difference. In Catholic schools, those teachers who had incomes at poverty levels were so compassionate about each and every student, willing to break their backs to ensure that we succeeded not just at school but at growing into men and women. This was completely missing from public school. The only reason teachers attempted to teach at public school was so the students passed those idiotic state-regulated examinations (which btw we also had to take in Catholic school, yet for some reason it wasn’t the main focus of our school year). Once the student passed those state tests in public school, the teachers stopped caring about what happened to the students.

And yes, this is purely anecdotal and I have no stats to support my claims. But because of what I experienced I will never send my children to a public school. Also btw, my father is a public school teacher. If anything my bias from my upbringing would be towards that direction.
 
👍👍
Well, I don’t really believe the difference is all in the students. Acceptance standards at most Catholic schools (at least here in Cleveland) are pretty darn poor. I went to public school for 8 years and Catholic school for high school. I did not see any difference in mental talents between the kids. If anything, my Catholic school had worse students, being on the outside of Cleveland and receiving plenty of low income broken household students, compared to my white picket fence public school which was a couple dozen miles removed from the city.

But we graduated 100% at my Catholic high school. My class at my local public school graduates a meager 70-80%. There is no way the difference here is between students. I can attest to the mastery of education that Catholic schools bring to the table compared to state funded public schools which quite honestly don’t give two craps about the lives of their students. And that was the biggest difference. In Catholic schools, those teachers who had incomes at poverty levels were so compassionate about each and every student, willing to break their backs to ensure that we succeeded not just at school but at growing into men and women. This was completely missing from public school. The only reason teachers attempted to teach at public school was so the students passed those idiotic state-regulated examinations (which btw we also had to take in Catholic school, yet for some reason it wasn’t the main focus of our school year). Once the student passed those state tests in public school, the teachers stopped caring about what happened to the students.

And yes, this is purely anecdotal and I have no stats to support my claims. But because of what I experienced I will never send my children to a public school. Also btw, my father is a public school teacher. If anything my bias from my upbringing would be towards that direction.
 
Where will the money for social programs and government payrolls and pensions come from?

There’s only one source available: THE PRINTING PRESS!

THE BOTTOM LINE: We are about to witness the greatest explosion in money printing that the world has ever seen!

I’m talking about **a veritable tidal wave of unbacked paper money that will drive your cost of living into the stratosphere **and multiply the price of essential natural resources — gold, silver, oil and food — many times over.
 
Then all you get is motion, not action.

“Nø, they can’t.”
I think his explanation shows that you get jobs. This is a good thing. But, the whole **government ****programs don’t work **chant is wearing kind of thin. What people really seem to have a problem with is actually paying for them. Too bad.
 
I think his explanation shows that you get jobs. This is a good thing. But, the whole **government ****programs don’t work **chant is wearing kind of thin. What people really seem to have a problem with is actually paying for them. Too bad.
Where will the money for social programs and government payrolls and pensions come from?
There’s only one source available: THE PRINTING PRESS!


Greece may default within the next 24 hours! Tomorrow, Greece must pay off bonds to the tune of 430 million euros. The problem is, Greece has less than 1.5 billion euros in its coffers and needs every penny it has to continue paying its entitlement, pension and payroll.

France is following in Greece’s footsteps! Political opportunists in France, Greece and elsewhere on the continent are rising to power by promising the masses that there will be no cuts in government spending.

These governments are massively in debt and falling deeper into debt with each passing hour. They are already borrowing or printing most of the money they’re doling out to their citizens.

Now, instead of digging themselves OUT of debt with government spending cuts …

They are digging even deeper holes for themselves by vowing to continue the spending programs that pushed them to the brink of disaster in the first place!

The philosophy of socialism is failure. The creed of socialism is **ignorance **and the gospel of socialism is envy.

You do not get it. Have you ever taken a college economics class?
 
How so? School vouchers will further exasperate the isolation of various races. While widening the acheivement gap. We’ve already seen evidence of this, in the Charter school system in North Carolina. Needless to say, this is a giant step backwards.

ATB
The research shows that students in school choice programs attend more integrated schools than their public school counterparts. All the available empirical research finds that vouchers are moving students into private schools that are substantially less segregated than public schools.

Private schools in voucher programs are less racially segregated than their public school counterparts. Vouchers break down neighborhood barriers and draw students together, providing a more integrated school expe¬rience. The empirical research shows that vouchers put students into less segregated schools.

On average,** private school classrooms are more integrated than nearby public school classrooms.** Our nation’s public schools and districts are heavily segregated. Public schools are so segregated primarily because of residential segregation. Attendance at public schools is largely determined by where people live, which guarantees that segregation in housing patterns will always be reproduced in public schools. Desegregation efforts have largely failed because they are geographically limited; white families who move to the suburbs cannot legally be forced to bus their children across municipal lines. Private schools, by contrast, can draw students with no limitation to geography. In fact, private schools typically draw from a much larger geographic area than public schools. That means private schools can mitigate the effects of residential segregation in a way public schools cannot match*. - Friedman Educational Foundation
 
Government programs fail because they are routinely outside of the government’s area of competence: breaking things and killing people (things that require force). That and government workers are paid. Pay drains the love out of any charitable work. Also because government cannot go out of business, only into more debt. And, because incompetence is invariably rewarded with an increased budget and more workers. And…and…and…and…
 
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