Why do so many protestants not consider church attendance an important part of their faith?

[Dokimas]

Yes, dear Dokimas. Jesus is present when 2 Christians are gathered together–just like you are present to me here on the CAFs.

But he is not physically present, body, blood, soul and divinity at any Christian gathering. Only at the Mass is He present, in the same way that you and your Beloved are physically present to each other.

Col 1:27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

 

[Lypher]

RevKev,

You really should get a copy of the Vatican II documents on the Liturgy. There is a great work to maintain the integrity of the sacred of the Mass as well as the message and truth of Jesus Christ being communicated to the given culture. I mean, different people see different messages, and there is alot of work put into liturgy to make sure the people understand the truth of Jesus Christ in His entirety.

There are norms of where the Mass can be said. I do not believe the Mass can be said in the open because of natural elements…someone may correct me…I can do more checking up on that. It can and has been said in barns, prisons, bedrooms, cellars, etc.

I mean, if it is breezy, a consecrated host may slip out…the remains of Christ must be protected and venerated in the Eucharistic sacrament…people who do not believe the Lord is present in the host are not to receive because it IS Him…this is a sacrilege…and was the main issue of people receiving Him in Spain before the Inquisition.

There has been much work also done on the sacredness of the Eucharist and the ramifications on those who are very casual in the handling of the sacrament. After Mass, the consecrated wine, which is the Blood of Christ is also properly disposed of…usually the priest and ministers will finish the sacrament.

So it all depends where…again it is to protect the Eucharist/host.

I hope that an Open ceremony could be held, although we would have to be careful. Great question I hope you share the answer if you find it…

God Bless You.

 

[KathleenGee]

I recall several times, because of the vulnerability of the Sacred Species, that Mass normally can’t be said outside…

But John Paul II had out door Masses when he visited various countries.

Depends.

Liturgy is my favorite study.

 

[jmcrae]

NT believers met whereever. They met in homes, by seas and rivers, on mountain sides, in city streets. At least that’s the impression I get as I read the NT.

Catholics can and often do do this too. In Africa, the “Church” is often a grove of trees with a canopy and altar (which are often made of temporary materials) set up in the middle of the open space. The priest says Mass there. Thousands of people come from far and wide to hear Mass and receive the Eucharist there.

In occupied Poland, Father Karl Wojtyla (who later became Pope John Paul II) often said Mass on a boat in the middle of a mountain lake, or on a mountain-side, away from where government officials could find him. In his case, too, hundreds of people came to him to hear Mass and to receive the Eucharist.

Again - for Catholics, it’s not about the building, but about what’s going on in the building - that is, Holy Mass.

 

[PRmerger]

Col 1:27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Amen, brother! Amen.

Just like when I go out of town and leave my family behind, they are still “in me”, in my heart, in my thoughts. But only when I return home again are they actually present before me* physically.*

Jesus is only present, physically, at the Eucharist.

 

[KathleenGee]

If I may make one more comment, after sharing a piece from Vatican II on the Liturgical Documents, the description, action, and intent is not the same as personal worship and fellowship. There is an obvious difference.

 

[rev_kevin]

Romans 16:5 Paul says, “Please give my greetings to the church that meets in their homes.”

Romans 16:23 Paul says, "Gaius says hello to you. I am his guest, and the church meets in his home.

 

[KathleenGee]

RevKevin,

There is a book out for beginners of the study of worship, the one I am beginning. It is called, ‘From Age to Age’, by Fr Ed Foley, Cap. It was recommended by the head of liturgy in my diocese to me. I had to go back and reflect more on the first two chapters. It gets more complicated in showing how music developed, from the Jewish Christians and from the Gentiles. The Palestinian Catholics still practice the Breaking of Bread in their homes. I think we should too.

I am also being led by the Holy Spirit to return to my roots these past 15 years. When I discovered the www.hebrewcatholic.org, then I came ‘home’. We are at the beginning of the ingrafting between the Jews and Catholics of faith…and I assume the same with the Messianic Jews and other Christians.

The Nazarene Jews who followed Jesus continued to worship at the synagogues. But in time, the Jews put a malediction out on them, so the Nazarenes left and formed their own synagogues. They also reacted as well by stopping the 40 day fast and worshipping on Sunday’s.

In the Gentile world, it was in the homes of the rich that provided a place for the Breaking of Bread. But the poor were delegated out into the courtyards, and I assume from the floorplan of these homes, the people also could not witness much of the event. Some had a big feast beforehand, but then sometimes there were bad behaviors and so it is assumed St. Paul was referring to issues that came up. All were to be considered equal to the Lord, no second-class believers, and not to receive the Lord unworthily.

I read another piece, and it was talking about someone who defied and received the Eucharist without faith, and became very sick.

There is a book in use in parishes on the ‘Meaning of the Mass’, by Fr Jeremy Driscoll. I came across it, and it gives a background as well as meaning to all the parts of the Mass. There are elements today that were the same then.

(And then you have different rites representing the different cultures within the Roman Catholic Church that are a different, still keep ancient culture practices in the Mass.

I have attended the Maronite Mass. The Maronites are from Lebanon. I was amazed at one Mass to hear that they were going to use the Eucharist Liturgy of St. John the Evangelist!!! They use bells. They pray a number of prayers always calling down God’s protection on them and their faith and always calling out for God’ mercy. Considering they came from Lebanon and knowing a wee bit of their history, well, it make sense. And the priest speaks Aramaic! the language of Jesus, as well as Syriac.)

I went to a retreat with the Maronite pastor. I asked if the Palestinian Christians were descendents of the Jewish Christians. He said yes. I also assume it includes the Arabs who converted as well. The pastor calls himself Arab. He was born in Pennsylvania and has the accent from the East coast. (When he goes back to Lebanon, he gets it in travel because he is Arab. When he gets home there, he gets it because he is a Christian…not a good time right now in his life.)

You can’t hold the Bible out separate from the people…because it is all about God and the people. The people represent tradition, the church.

But when it comes to the Mass, having attended Protestant services, I would say that although it preaches essentially the same in all its actions and symbols, it is completely different. And for a person like yourself who studies and reflects alot, it would be good if you studied the Mass more…otherwise you’d get lost. There are some people who are led into the Church and they see everything right away…Scott Hahn for example. I took a Jewish woman in and she went into shock and she understood what was happening right away. The Jewish priesthood ended with the destruction of the Temple and the Diaspora. But the priesthood of Jesus began, so it was never lost.

 

[KathleenGee]

I spent some time with the document, but can’t find anything right now yet on where the Mass can be said.

Weddings…those…inside…

 

[PRmerger]

Romans 16:5 Paul says, “Please give my greetings to the church that meets in their homes.”

Romans 16:23 Paul says, "Gaius says hello to you. I am his guest, and the church meets in his home.

To celebrate the Mass, with a priest!

 

[jmcrae]

Romans 16:5 Paul says, “Please give my greetings to the church that meets in their homes.”

Romans 16:23 Paul says, "Gaius says hello to you. I am his guest, and the church meets in his home.

Why are you all hung up on this?

I have been to Masses said in homes, and in motel rooms. All you need is a priest, a congregation (one or two people is fine), and the elements of unleavened wheat bread, and grape wine. And permission from the local Bishop of course, but this is easy enough to get.

At World Youth Day, most of the daily Masses were said outside.

 

[rev_kevin]

Why are you all hung up on this?

I have been to Masses said in homes, and in motel rooms. All you need is a priest, a congregation (one or two people is fine), and the elements of unleavened wheat bread, and grape wine. And permission from the local Bishop of course, but this is easy enough to get.

At World Youth Day, most of the daily Masses were said outside.

What is this thread about? Lets see what the OP says it about.
"It seems more and more are becoming “unchurchers” if you will–Believe that regular church attendance might even be harmful. They want to do a home church. Believing quite literally that where 3 gather, ther goes the Lord. I’m not even sure how to approach those beliefs: they certainly dont seem to be in line with the Bible.
HMMMMM lt seems, I answered the OP’s post by showing him where it is in the Bible. Now I’m when is answering the OP being “HUNG UP” on this? See I even highlighted in red the home church and the in line with the Bible thing so you will see that I was answering what the post is about. I did this just for you

 

[jmcrae]

What is this thread about? Lets see what the OP says it about.
"It seems more and more are becoming “unchurchers” if you will–Believe that regular church attendance might even be harmful. They want to do a home church. Believing quite literally that where 3 gather, ther goes the Lord. I’m not even sure how to approach those beliefs: they certainly dont seem to be in line with the Bible.

People who are having Mass in odd places while traveling are not “un-churchers” and they aren’t avoiding regular church attendance - they are, in fact, attending Church.

The “un-churchers” aren’t inviting priests (or members of their own denominational clergy) to these gatherings, is what the difference is. They are making “me and my Bible” (or rather, my favourite tract and the specific Bible verses in that tract) the arbiter of truth, instead of God’s Church.

The purpose of a Mass is to give thanks to God for Jesus Christ crucified and risen. The purpose of these anti-Church gatherings is pretty much anything but - it’s mostly a protest against the perceived evils of organized religion, and a thumbing of nose at the Apostles and all that they established on our behalf.

 

[KathleenGee]

There are Catholic families that have home altars. You can go to the Liturgy section of CAF and see a few pictures of some.

I did mine using my fireplace mantle, and the picture of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in the middle with a candle. At night when my husband worked, I prayed with the candle lit. I put my statue of Mary by Him. With her, I put flowers. Then of course, the Bible placed close by.

My new house, I have my Bible on the raised fireplace hearth. More room. People can have Masses in their homes. That is where it happened during persecutions.

 

[rev_kevin]

People who are having Mass in odd places while traveling are not “un-churchers” and they aren’t avoiding regular church attendance - they are, in fact, attending Church.

The “un-churchers” aren’t inviting priests (or members of their own denominational clergy) to these gatherings, is what the difference is. They are making “me and my Bible” (or rather, my favourite tract and the specific Bible verses in that tract) the arbiter of truth, instead of God’s Church.

The purpose of a Mass is to give thanks to God for Jesus Christ crucified and risen. The purpose of these anti-Church gatherings is pretty much anything but - it’s mostly a protest against the perceived evils of organized religion, and a thumbing of nose at the Apostles and all that they established on our behalf.

Priscilla and Aquila were Pauls friends but not clergy and they had church in their home without mention of any clergy being present. I don’t see that they go to any other church but the one in their home.

Gaius was not clergy but had church in his home without mention of any clergy being present. I don’t see that he goes to any other church but the one in his home.

 

[PRmerger]

Priscilla and Aquila were Pauls friends but not clergy and they had church in their home without mention of any clergy being present. I don’t see that they go to any other church but the one in their home.

Paul was there. He was an apostle. That is, Catholic clergy.

 

[rev_kevin]

Paul was there. He was an apostle. That is, Catholic clergy.

Fair enough but did Paul live there? Did he go everytime the had church in their home? What about when Paul wasn’t there?

 

[PRmerger]

Fair enough but did Paul live there? Did he go everytime the had church in their home? What about when Paul wasn’t there?

If they wanted to celebrate the Eucharist–and there’s lots of evidence that they did celebrate the Body/Blood of our Lord–then they had a priest present.

 

[Roy5]

In past decades many Protestants took pride in the fact that they were not required to attend Sunday worship. This was a way of denying the importance of ‘good works’ in the Catholic sense of the phrase. Salvation was not to be achieved through acts of piety, through compulsory attendance, through the sacraments, through gaining indulgences, but through a simple faith in Christ. This, it was believed, would produce love of God and love of others, the two cornerstones of a genuine Christian life. These in turn would nurture kindness, generosity, integrity, and various other Christians virtues.

Today I understand that the percentage of Protestants who attend worship is about the same or even a little higher than that of Catholics in the USA. Something like 35% in both groups. It has remained fairly constant over the years among Protestants, while the Catholic percentage has dropped precipitously. The highest attendance is likely among evangelicals, especially Pentecostalists, where worship can be a uplifting, joyous experience with spirited singing and a warm fellowship. Too often many more formal churches - Catholic and Protestant alike - can come across as impersonal, even cold.

 What does shock me, frankly, is the percentage of Christians who attend worship in what once was Christian Europe. I was reading in the current "Our Sunday Visitor" that only 4% attend Mass in France, that only 59% of the Spanish believe in God (where Catholicism claims 95% of the population), etc. I heard that Catholic attendance in Quebec has now dipped below 10%. I remember as a child when it was above 90%.

  So the obligation to attend Mass doesn't seem to have much impact nowadays upon the Catholic rank and file. Church attendance has always seemed less urgent to most Protestants. Perhaps Protestants and Catholics, instead of sniping at one another, could work in concert to promote church attendance among all Christians. I think Christ would endorse that idea.

  God bless people of all creeds, colors and countries.

 

[PRmerger]

So the obligation to attend Mass doesn’t seem to have much impact nowadays upon the Catholic rank and file. Church attendance has always seemed less urgent to most Protestants. Perhaps Protestants and Catholics, instead of sniping at one another, could work in concert to promote church attendance among all Christians. I think Christ would endorse that idea.

  God bless people of all creeds, colors and countries.

What are your suggestions for promoting “church attendance among all Christians”, Roy?