Why do some Catholics here believe Protestants are all Pro-abortion, Pro-this, Pro-that, Pro-sin?

[babylonsfalling]

NOBODY said it. The original question was "Why do some Catholics here believe Protestants are all Pro-abortion, Pro-this, Pro-that, Pro-sin?" which is not the same as saying “Protestants are all Pro-abortion, Pro-this, Pro-that, Pro-sin”.

If anyone did say it, they misread the question.

Well if nobody said it, how is it known that certain people here believe that…

“Protestants are all Pro-abortion, Pro-this, Pro-that, Pro-sin?”

"Protestantism is really based on the philosophy of “living a life of sin and looking for ways to justify it”?

Who here believes that stuff?

 

[PJM]

Now someone correct me if I’m wrong,* but in Catholic teaching one must have been Catholic and left the Church in order to be called a heretic*. Therefore, while a Catholic may claim that my communion is heretical, I don’t believe you can describe me, a cradle Lutheran, as a heretic.
Jon

Actually not my friend:

From the Current Code of canon Law:

**Can. 751 **Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him"

While written Specifically for Catholics [AS IS THE ENTIRE BIBLE] their is application to ALL Christians. Any obstinate disbelief in what God Teaches through THE CORRECT understanding of the Bible is a heresy.

So how sins are forgiven, the Real presence, the Primacy of Peter are effectively Heresy if not accepted as Christ intended; and as His CC Teaches, is factually a hersey

Jon, we have discussed the authority of the CC mutiple times, but is anyone wishes me to present the evidence again; just let me know.

God bless you and have a GREAt fathers day!

Pat

 

[Inishfree]

I read in the LA Times an op-editorial written by two United Methodist Church ministers who were highly critical of the Catholic Church’s position on abortion.

Thanks, I didn’t know that. It has been many years since I have been to the Methodist Church.

I became Catholic, in my twenties. I am now over fifty.

 

[PJM]

=TrueLight;8002675]Let’s be honest here. Compare Evangelicals who attend Church every Sunday, but not during the week with Catholics who attend mass every Sunday, but not during the week.

The majority of Evangelicals who attend church every Sunday do so because they want to.

Why do the majority of Catholics who attend mass every Sunday attend mass? Hmm.

Like I said, before I joined CAF, almost all the Catholics I knew were Cradle Catholics who either didn’t attend mass or attended almost superstitiously because of the obligation. Most Catholics I know do what they want.

The majority of Evangelicals are regularly exposed to fire and brimstone sermons where sins like fornication, abortion, partying and drinking (yes, considered sins by a lot), immodest dress, gossiping, etc, etc, are denounced every Sunday.

They’re not perfect, and they sin, but they know what is considered sin and what is not. Thos who are totally disregarding the teachings of their Church know that they are in a “backslidden” state.

I am so tired of hearing that protestants do what they want and believe they will go to heaven anyway. Those who do what they want are not practicing.

I cannot speak for other denominations like Lutherans, Methodists etc. I do believe they are more liberal, but I may be wrong.

Generally Evangelicals/fundamentalists, are not liberal.

***My friend, I’m sorry to have to disagree with you’re assessment.

The CC have been GREATLY reduced in numbers after the effects of Vatican II [who wrongly get the balme].***

***Mandatory Mass attendence [PEW REPORT 2007] showed that in 1970 about 73% of self professed Catholics regullary fulfilled Sunday anf Holy Day Mass obligations. By 2007 That number had droped a bit below 25%. So the group you mention seemingly have exited the Church and put their SOULS at grave risk. [Heb 6:4-10].

Being exposed to F & B sermons may have it’s place; HOWEVER it does noting to aid salvation expect, perhaps, limit the occassions of grevious sins. Again a good thing; but does noting for the forgiveness of sins.

Humanity is faced with Two MAJOR choices: Who is in Charge? me or God. Outside of the CC, ALL Christians have knowingly or unknowingly PUT THEIR preachers in charge [they themselves being held accountable], at the expense of IGNORING what the Bible is exceedingly clear, specif and precise about…***

READ Mt. 16:19 and the folowing:

Nearly all or certainly MOST catholic today go to Mass bevause that is where we find the REAL JESUS CHRIST in Holy Communion. Also clearly expressed in the Bible.

** 1John.1 Verses 8 to 10:** "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

** 1John.5 Verses 16 to 17**"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. ** There is sin which is mortal**; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, ** but there is sin which is not mortal. **

** John.20 Verses 20 to 23**]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. ** Jesus said to them ** again, “Peace be with you. ** As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” ** And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

God Bless you,
Pat

 

[JonNC]

Actually not my friend:

From the Current Code of canon Law:

**Can. 751 **Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him"

While written Specifically for Catholics [AS IS THE ENTIRE BIBLE] their is application to ALL Christians. Any obstinate disbelief in what God Teaches through THE CORRECT understanding of the Bible is a heresy.

So how sins are forgiven, the Real presence, the Primacy of Peter are effectively Heresy if not accepted as Christ intended; and as His CC Teaches, is factually a hersey

Jon, we have discussed the authority of the CC mutiple times, but is anyone wishes me to present the evidence again; just let me know.

God bless you and have a GREAt fathers day!

Pat

Hi Pat,
I am not denying that the CC believes that some of the teachings of the Lutheran Church are heretical. The question is, am I personally a heretic in Catholic teaching?

On another similar thread, I posted this post from Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger:

“The difficulty in the way of giving an answer is a profound one. Ultimately it is due to the fact that there is no appropriate category in Catholic thought for the phenomenon of Protestantism today (one could say the same of the relationship to the separated churches of the East). It is obvious that the old category of ‘heresy’ is no longer of any value. Heresy, for Scripture and the early Church, includes the idea of a personal decision against the unity of the Church, and heresy’s characteristic is pertinacia, the obstinacy of him who persists in his own private way. This, however, cannot be regarded as an appropriate description of the spiritual situation of the Protestant Christian. In the course of a now centuries-old history, Protestantism has made an important contribution to the realization of Christian faith, fulfilling a positive function in the development of the Christian message and, above all, often giving rise to a sincere and profound faith in the individual non-Catholic Christian, whose separation from the Catholic affirmation has nothing to do with the pertinacia characteristic of heresy. Perhaps we may here invert a saying of St. Augustine’s: that an old schism becomes a heresy. The very passage of time alters the character of a division, so that an old division is something essentially different from a new one. Something that was once rightly condemned as heresy cannot later simply become true, but it can gradually develop its own positive ecclesial nature, with which the individual is presented as his church and in which he lives as a believer, not as a heretic. This organization of one group, however, ultimately has an effect on the whole. The conclusion is inescapable, then: Protestantism today is something different from heresy in the traditional sense, a phenomenon whose true theological place has not yet been determined.”

-Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

In answer to my question, the Cardinal seems to think not, or at least the term doesn’t well apply to cradle Lutherans (or fill in any other name).

Jon

 

[paul11b]

Because not every Catholic knows what he or she is talking about

 

[Journey322]

There are many protestant groups that claim ‘sola scriptura’ but ignore much of what Scripture has to say. Any protestant group that supports abortion, same-sex marriage, pre-marital sex, etc. is not following Scripture, simple as. And there are many of these groups in the USA that claim ‘just accept Jesus as your saviour and you’re saved’ and then you can just do whatever you want.

There are some Protestant groups who pick and choose which scriptures to live by and which to ignore. However, ALL Protestants are not the same. There is a reason for denominational distinctions, and even within those distinctions there are often other subgroups (such as with Baptists-there are Fundamentalists, Independent, Southern, “Bible-Believing”, etc) In fact, as a Protestant myself (Baptist background), I can same with some degree of certainty that the denominational groups that are pro-abortion, pro same-sex marriage and pro pre-martial sex (I’ve never even encountered a group such as this) are much fewer than those who truly seek to follow the teachings of Christ. It is a mistake to group us all together.

Personally, I don’t believe that there is any group (Protestant or not) that has the market on the interpretation of scripture. We all fall short somewhere. Christ will set us all straight some day. In the meantime, we just have to do the best we can to be and do as we are commanded. First and foremost, loving God with all our hearts, souls and minds. Secondly, loving others as we love ourselves.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Personally, I think there is a “stereotype” of a “do everything you want” type of Christianity may be partially due to the fact that there ARE some Protestant preachers and denominations who DO push the “once saved, always saved” line.
Good example----Kenneth Copeland and family. I watch their show once in a great while----he DEFINITELY harps semi-regularly on the fact that “I am saved, so I will always be saved.” At least, on the episodes I have seen.

Then there is the diluted form of Christianity-----where God, not Jesus, is emphasized and God is really your buddy, your shrink, your financial advisor and everything else under the sun. Plus, he has few standards, “loves everybody,” and does not judge you (heaven forbid!). Premier example of that-------Joel Osteen.

Then there is the John Hagee type of Christianity-------“God wants you happy—plus he is your life coach, your buddy, etc…AND he hates Catholics because they have perverted His original intent! Plus they are (gasp!) Satanic!”

Yep-----

That and other things like that may be the reason for the “steretypes.”

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

There are some Protestant groups who pick and choose which scriptures to live by and which to ignore. However, ALL Protestants are not the same. There is a reason for denominational distinctions, and even within those distinctions there are often other subgroups (such as with Baptists-there are Fundamentalists, Independent, Southern, “Bible-Believing”, etc) In fact, as a Protestant myself (Baptist background), I can same with some degree of certainty that the denominational groups that are pro-abortion, pro same-sex marriage and pro pre-martial sex (I’ve never even encountered a group such as this) are much fewer than those who truly seek to follow the teachings of Christ. It is a mistake to group us all together.

Personally, I don’t believe that there is any group (Protestant or not) that has the market on the interpretation of scripture. We all fall short somewhere. Christ will set us all straight some day. In the meantime, we just have to do the best we can to be and do as we are commanded. First and foremost, loving God with all our hearts, souls and minds. Secondly, loving others as we love ourselves.

I agree basically with what you are saying. You cannot genralize with ALL Protestants.

 

[sedonaman]

Well if nobody said it, how is it known that certain people here believe that…

I dunno. That’s the OP question we are trying to answer. Because some people like conspiracy theories?

Who here believes that stuff?

Which is a different question altogether from the OP one.

 

[babylonsfalling]

I dunno. <–I didn’t think so.That’s the OP question we are trying to answer.<–You’re confused…the OP didn’t pose that question. Because some people like conspiracy theories?

Which is a different question altogether from the OP one.

You’ve confused yourself. The question I asked is pasted below. The OP never even posed that question. The OP basically asks…“Why do some Catholics here believe Protestants are all Pro-abortion, Pro-this, Pro-that, Pro-sin?” My question is what Catholic even said that…to which you replied that nobody said it. Then I ask how is it known that certain people even believe it…and you “dunno”

how is it known that certain people here believe that…
“Protestants are all Pro-abortion, Pro-this, Pro-that, Pro-sin?”

"Protestantism is really based on the philosophy of “living a life of sin and looking for ways to justify it”?

Since you acknowledge that nobody said those things about Protestants in the first place and then say you “dunno” how someone else could know that certain people here believe that stuff…it seems there’s really have no defense of the OP.

The original poster himself seems unwilling to point out who actually said that stuff or who believes it…so it may be that the entire assertion was hooey from the get go.

 

[sedonaman]

…so it may be that the entire assertion was hooey from the get go.

Which is probably the case with most conspiracy theories.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

I’m often left astonished at the assumptions made here about Protestants, that Protestantism is really based on the philosophy of “living a life of sin and looking for ways to justify it”.

Fortunately, that’s far from reality. Protestants, in general, simply look for what the Bible has to say on a certain topic (i.e. sola-scriptura). Abortion, to use an example, would be considered a sin on the basis of several passages, most notably, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations” (Jeremiah 1:5). A properly-informed Protestant, in my point of view, wouldn’t hold drastically different opinions from a Catholic on the nature of sin (perhaps disagreeing on birth control, as an example, as it isn’t explicitly alluded to in the Bible).

So why do some Catholics here, and quite a significant number, portray Protestants in such a negative light? If a person lives a life of sin and looks for ways to justify it, they are neither Catholic or Protestant but simply a non-practicing Christian. According to this forum however, Protestantism is synonymous with living the high life

(bolding mine)

Because the majority of Protestants throughout the world are liberal (not just by Catholic standards), which makes them open to same-sex relationships, pro-“choice”, etc. I’m not saying all are, but if you do generalize, often times Protestants lean towards secular ideas and not Christian ideas (Imams becoming priests in the Church of Sweden because they are so desperate). Luckily here in America, the majority ARE conservative, which makes Catholics look semi-liberal. But, getting back on topic, if you generalize, then Protestants are also less focused on doing good works/converting others, and are more influenced by society, etc. Just one of many reasons why I’m leaving the ELCA when I go to college.

 

[Godith]

Protestants believe there will be no consequences from God from sin so some Catholics think they won’t take sin seriously enough.

I’d be interested to know where you heard that. I’ve never heard any Christian suggest there were no consequences to sin. It stands to reason that there are consequences - if I do wrong, it affects me, it affects my relationships with others, and it affects my relationship with God. Jesus had to come and die a horrible death to deal with the issue of sin. It doesn’t get more serious than that.

However, because Jesus died for me, and because it says nothing can separate us from the love of God (Romans 8), I believe I can trust Him for my salvation. He called me, and made me His child, and He always finishes what He started. That’s what ‘once saved, always saved’ means to me. It means I don’t have to worry that I might slip up, and lose the life that God has given me, because He won’t let that happen. He never lets us go, He never lets us down, and He never lets us off.

That’s sort of off topic. Why do some Catholics believe Protestants are all pro-abortion, pro-this, pro-that… Honestly, I think it’s because there are so many different groups out there, it’s easy to get confused about what is believed and by whom. We don’t know enough about each other, and assumptions get made, on all sides, many of which are wrong. It’s sad, but true, and the Enemy loves it.

 

[babylonsfalling]

Which is probably the case with most conspiracy theories***.<–It’s not about conspiracy theories.***

How did you get from this thread into conspiracy theory land?

 

[mathematoons]

I’m often left astonished at the assumptions made here about Protestants, that Protestantism is really based on the philosophy of “living a life of sin and looking for ways to justify it”…

So why do some Catholics here, and quite a significant number, portray Protestants in such a negative light? If a person lives a life of sin and looks for ways to justify it, they are neither Catholic or Protestant but simply a non-practicing Christian. According to this forum however, Protestantism is synonymous with living the high life

I don’t think this about all Protestants. I really like conservative Protestants because their morality is basically in line with the Catholic Church. It’s those liberal Protestants who make a mockery of Christianity that I don’t like–I agree with you that such people are non-practicing Christians.

 

[Hawkheart]

Because Protestants reject the moral authority of Christ’s Church. So most Protestant denominations sway with winds of modern culture. It is a faith built on sand.
And unfortunately well meaning individuals have been swept up in the over individualized faith that doesn’t stand united against the moral evils tearing apart society.

I honestly (being Lutheran) like being in a faith built on sand. We move and change with the world around us, not stick to our ancient beliefs even when proven wrong.

 

[Hawkheart]

Protestants are full blown heretics. There is no arguing about that. All I can do is pray for them.I hope they realize the only true church and way of life is the Roman Catholic church.

And you are an idiot. Just because I am Lutheran does not make me make fun of your faith left and right or say “MINE GOOD, YOURS BAD!!!”. But now I may after seeing your reaction to things. Heretic…says someone who thinks there’s a mythical waiting room before you enter heaven or hell. There, I said it!!!

 

[PJM]

=Sebas123;8002977]Ok, lets just get one thing straight, The Holy Catholic church is the only true church. It is the only one that leads to heaven. It was the church that was started by Christ all others broke away from the true church because they wanted thing there way not God’s way. If you disagree i don’t care. What I’m saying is true. So have a great day and God bless

WWJD

**John.13: 34 **“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.”

John.13; 35 “By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

QUESTION friend,
MUST we be hash to be efective?

And for accuracy’s sake: NORMALLY salvation requires asociation with the VCC, but extrodinary conditions could make it possible to not have an association with the church and still get to heaven.

God Bless you, AND welcome to the Forum!
Pat

 

[TimothyH]

(perhaps disagreeing on birth control, as an example, as it isn’t explicitly alluded to in the Bible).

Just as a point of interest, Dueteronomy 25 and Genesis 38 deal with the issue of birth control directly.

-Tim-