Why do some people prefer to be atheists?

[Maximus_Power]

Apparently we are all sinners, so it strikes that, from a Christian theological view, being an atheist is merely one more item to add to the pile of all the ways we are all depraved.

I’m sure an infinite and omnipotent being, one capable of creating universes, isn’t going to be too terribly put out by the odd inhabitant of a very tiny corner of the universe not immediately believing that said being exists.

It’s largely why I imagine that if I did decide there must be a Prime Mover, I can’t imagine why I would pick the Judeao-Christian deity, or why I would feel the need to have to worship such a being. But that’s an entirely different topic.

One of the things that is odd to a sinful person, especially one living in the western world “myself included,” is how a sin can offend an infinite God infinitely. I’d imagine that something that is all good in nature would be naturally repulsed by evil.

You would pick the Jeudao Christian God, because it’s imperative to your survival.
No one can come to the Father except through me. John 14:6

But whoever eats of my body and drinks of my blood has eternal life, and I shall raise him in the last day.” John 6:54

 

[aclausen]

One of the things that is odd to a sinful person, especially one living in the western world “myself included,” is how a sin can offend an infinite God infinitely. I’d imagine that something that is all good in nature would be naturally repulsed by evil.

You would pick the Jeudao Christian God, because it’s imperative to your survival.
No one can come to the Father except through me. John 14:6

But whoever eats of my body and drinks of my blood has eternal life, and I shall raise him in the last day.” John 6:54

If threats were useful in convincing me to believe in God, I would have abandoned atheism a long time ago, or would never have gone down the path to begin with.

As it is, I find any being that would subject its creations to infinite punishments for finite crimes, even if such a being were to exist, wholly unworthy of worship.

 

[Bradski]

From your sinful nature, to your sinful family, to temporal punishments, and finally to your reprobate mind.

Maybe you should back the truck up a little, Max. Despite the fact that we all have different opinions, we do try to put our points across with sone degree of civility.

 

[aclausen]

Maybe you should back the truck up a little, Max. Despite the fact that we all have different opinions, we do try to put our points across with sone degree of civility.

Nonsense! There’s nothing I like better than to be called a reprobate first thing in the morning! Why, what says “God loves you” more than someone asserting your diseased and perverse.

 

[Maximus_Power]

If threats were useful in convincing me to believe in God, I would have abandoned atheism a long time ago, or would never have gone down the path to begin with.

As it is, I find any being that would subject its creations to infinite punishments for finite crimes, even if such a being were to exist, wholly unworthy of worship.

You’re under the assumption that Heaven needs you to believe. God wan’ts you because he loves you, he has given you your entire life, a temporal Church, and the established the sacraments with his own blood.

If a single human being overcomes his fallen nature and lives forever, than the Church was triumphant and life has meaning.

Few are saved most are damned. Christians included.

For many are called few are chosen Matt 22:14

If the righteous man is scarcely saved 1 Peter 4:18

I have dozen of quotes from the doctors of the Church, but you probably get the idea.

 

[Maximus_Power]

Maybe you should back the truck up a little, Max. Despite the fact that we all have different opinions, we do try to put our points across with sone degree of civility.

I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to imply that I was any different. I’d hope you’d know that Catholics believe we are all sinners.

 

[aclausen]

You’re under the assumption that Heaven needs you to believe. God wan’ts you because he loves you, he has given you your entire life, a temporal Church, and the established the sacraments with his own blood.

If a single human being overcomes his fallen nature and lives forever, than the Church was triumphant and life has meaning.

Few are saved most are damned. Christians included.

For many are called few are chosen Matt 22:14

If the righteous man is scarcely saved 1 Peter 4:18

I have dozen of quotes from the doctors of the Church, but you probably get the idea.

You’re not exactly winning the argument that this is a being worthy of worship, you know.

 

[Maximus_Power]

You’re not exactly winning the argument that this is a being worthy of worship, you know.

Do you know why the Catholic Church refers to iteself as the Church Militant?
Because we were born into a war. Have thus conquered in the Church Militant you are admitted in the the Church Triumphant. “Heaven,”

Man uses peace to make more war.

God uses war to make peace.

Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matt 10:34

You were born into a war. You are either alive in the body of Christ or alive in the body of satan. All else is an illusion. If you don’t think our King is worthy of worship, pray until you do.

 

[aclausen]

Do you know why the Catholic Church refers to iteself as the Church Militant?
Because we were born into a war. Have thus conquered in the Church Militant you are admitted in the the Church Triumphant. “Heaven,”

Man uses peace to make more war.

God uses war to make peace.

Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matt 10:34

You were born into a war. You are either alive in the body of Christ or alive in the body of satan. All else is an illusion. If you don’t think our King is worthy of worship, pray until you do.

Or just carry as I am, relatively happy, trying to be a good person, and not making threats of eternal damnation because somehow I imagine myself getting extra perks in the afterlife.

 

[Maximus_Power]

May your life here be long, happy and full of joy.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Pure nonsense. My atheism has nothing to do with sin. It was, in my view, rationally derived and supported. You may disagree with my logic, but you are attempting to impose your own personal views on atheism on other people.

If you look at my post again, you will see I was not talking about your atheism. I was talking about the generic atheist, and the kind of atheist I was.

On the other hand, I think that you are as much a sinner as the rest of us. So You cannot entirely discount the possibility that people will absolve themselves of their sins by denying there are any eternal consequences of their sinning.

If that doesn’t apply to you, congratulations!

You can insist you are arguing from pure logic. But if you are arguing from pure logic, you must know by now that no amount of logic can prove there is no God.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

You can insist you are arguing from pure logic. But if you are arguing from pure logic, you must know by now that no amount of logic can prove there is no God.

Nor can it prove God or a specific God. It is probably unknowable, hence faith.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

If threats were useful in convincing me to believe in God, I would have abandoned atheism a long time ago, or would never have gone down the path to begin with.

As it is, I find any being that would subject its creations to infinite punishments for finite crimes, even if such a being were to exist, wholly unworthy of worship.

Would you also think a Creator who gave you infinite reward for finite virtues “wholly unworthy of worship”?

You do have a choice, you know.

God likes you so much that if you tell him you prefer to be in hell for all eternity than to be in heaven with him, he gives you what you want. If you had that choice, would you choose hell?

And since you don 't know for a fact that God is not there, how rational a choice would that be if he is there?

 

[aclausen]

If you look at my post again, you will see I was not talking about your atheism. I was talking about the generic atheist, and the kind of atheist I was.

On the other hand, I think that you are as much a sinner as the rest of us. So You cannot entirely discount the possibility that people will absolve themselves of their sins by denying there are any eternal consequences of their sinning.

If that doesn’t apply to you, congratulations!

The sins I commit remain sins whether there is a God, or whether there is not. The kind of atheist you refer to could hardly be called an atheist at all, because it would suggest that they are actively denying God’s existence simply to get themselves off the hook.

You can insist you are arguing from pure logic. But if you are arguing from pure logic, you must know by now that no amount of logic can prove there is no God.

I know that very well. I have said a number of times that I believe my atheism is rational, but there is no test I could apply that would falsify the existence of God.

I look at God much the same way I might look at a lesser god like Thor. That science has demonstrated that thunder and lightning require no deity to make them occur, does not in fact disprove the existence of Thor. It does however, render his existence unnecessary.

I just take that and place it on a larger canvas. I’m not convinced the universe needs a creator, and in no small part because I do apply some logic, in the form of Occam’s razor. I simply take that attribute that we might call “uncaused” and move it from God and make it a fundamental property of the universe itself. I’m maintaining the attribute that is seen as necessary to get from nothing to something, I’m just removing what I feel to be an unnecessary assumption.

That’s not to say God does not exist, and that He didn’t create the Universe, much as I can’t stay that Thor does not exist, and that every time I hear thunder, it’s because of Thor’s hammer.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Nor can it prove God or a specific God. It is probably unknowable, hence faith.

Yes, faith in God or faith in nothingness.

Which is more worthy of faith?

 

[aclausen]

Would you also think a Creator who gave you infinite reward for finite virtues “wholly unworthy of worship”?

Why would such a being need to be worshiped at all?

You do have a choice, you know.

God likes you so much that if you tell him you prefer to be in hell for all eternity than to be in heaven with him, he gives you what you want. If you had that choice, would you choose hell?

Why should any infinite being force such a choice upon its creations?

And since you don 't know for a fact that God is not there, how rational a choice would that be if he is there?

Ah, Pascal’s Wager. I actually find that to be even worse, that there is a God who would reward people for gambling on Him existing.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

That’s not to say God does not exist, and that He didn’t create the Universe, much as I can’t stay that Thor does not exist, and that every time I hear thunder, it’s because of Thor’s hammer.

I think at this point I will leave you alone to contemplate Thor!

 

[aclausen]

Yes, faith in God or faith in nothingness.

Which is more worthy of faith?

Why does one have to have that kind of faith, whether for God or nothingness?

 

[aclausen]

I think at this point I will leave you alone to contemplate Thor!

It’s a toss up between Ragnarok and Armageddon. I do like the language of Revelations better, that much I will admit.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Why would such a being need to be worshiped at all?

Why should any infinite being force such a choice upon its creations?

Ah, Pascal’s Wager. I actually find that to be even worse, that there is a God who would reward people for gambling on Him existing.

God punishes people for gambling that he doesn’t exist.

The fool in his heart says there is no God.

He has to say it in his heart because it is only a gamble in his head that God does not exist.

Either way, we have to gamble. It is infinitely wiser to gamble on God than against God.

Having gambled on God, we grow to know him better and better, even to the point of discovering in the encounter that he really does exist.

“The heart has reasons reason cannot know.”

Then atheist denies this because he has no heart or hope in God.

He’d rather gamble on death and nothingness, as if that made a lot of sense.