Seriously? Darn it, I wish someone had told me that when I decided there were no gods. I mean, all these years I’ve been living as a responsible member of society when I should have been…well…living as I pleased.So many people ditch religion to avoid feelings of guilt and just live as they please.
Brad, do you want to start a gang? Instead of the Hell’s Angels we can be the Uncaring Universe’s Soulless Collection of Parts.Seriously? Darn it, I wish someone had told me that when I decided there were no gods. I mean, all these years I’ve been living as a responsible member of society when I should have been…well…living as I pleased.
Curses. All that wasted time.
I don’t think that’s nonsensical, I would absolutely prefer to be Catholic than Atheist, I think such a world view would be horrible and would not give me any strength at all to go through the sufferings that this world throws at us.Prefer?
Is that like ‘I prefer cream cheese bagels rather than plain’? As in one might have a preference!
It’s as nonsensical as me asking you why you prefer being a Catholic.
I agree with this and think that’s also a fair assessment, I also think there is much propaganda in favor of disbelief and that many people don’t look into it, because they don’t think there are any answers there. Once Atheism is assumed/believed, it usually automatically discounts any evidence to the contrary I believe.Although individual atheists probably differ, as a whole, I think it is because they don’t perceive sufficient evidence to conclude there is a G-d. Thus, even if they cannot completely rule out the possibility of the existence of G-d, they don’t see any reason to believe in an entity that may or may not exist.
For others, they perceive the problem of evil as insurmountable and therefore, while G-d may exist, He cannot be a totally benevolent G-d if He allows pain and suffering to persist. Their reasoning might be that no amount of eternal reward in heaven can erase the pain and suffering experienced by so many in the present. Therefore, they refuse to believe in a G-d Who is either not benevolent or not powerful enough to remove the suffering of the moment.
For still others, perhaps they would like to believe in G-d, but which G-d? Since there are so many different religious versions of G-d, they might feel it is a futile endeavor to choose only one.
Finally, as others have mentioned, some atheists may be going through a phase in their spiritual development and are perhaps influenced by friends and secular society in general. They may be convinced that belief in G-d is both a sign of weakness, a crutch, as well as fraught with hypocrisy since religious people are not necessarily good people.
Accountability and belief in right or wrong do not require God or gods. Not all of us feel a need for accountability to outside forces. All morality is relative to something. In your case it is relative to Church which claims to interpret/teach God’s moral standards.Because they don’t like the accountability that comes with religion. Believing in God means that we have to acknowledge that there is right and wrong, and a lot of people don’t like being told that they’re in the wrong. So many people ditch religion to avoid feelings of guilt and just live as they please.
I agree.Accountability and belief in right or wrong do not require God or gods.
I agree.Not all of us feel a need for accountability to outside forces.
That is, until e.g. someone punches me in the face and calls it moral, than I see that morality is not relative, they can believe what they want but I know they are wrong and I take solace and comfort in Christ and His moral truths.All morality is relative to something. In your case it is relative to Church which claims to interpret/teach God’s moral standards.
Okay.To the OP, for me I can’t prove atheism is true but I can’t convince myself Christianity is true either, tried before. Let’s say my reason is that I’m unconvinced.
I don’t think they are nonsensical and I do believe there are some who would deny it for roughly that reason, I think the following passage would explain it the best -The other reasons regarding guilt, rules, etc are bizarrely nonsensical.
However, I believe it would be fallacious to apply this verse to everyone who is or identifies themselves as an Atheist, Agnostic, or not Catholic/Christian for the many reasons Metlzerboy laid out and probably other reasons too. And I read somewhere else, blessed are those who stay away from the Church because of the Apostasy they find there, or as Fulton J Sheen put it, many people hate what they wrongly perceive to be the Catholic Church.20 For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God.
Not sure which religion you’re talking about, but it’s never good to foster feelings of guilt. Christianity is about the good news, about being free, not about carrying burdens on our shoulders.Because they don’t like the accountability that comes with religion. Believing in God means that we have to acknowledge that there is right and wrong, and a lot of people don’t like being told that they’re in the wrong. So many people ditch religion to avoid feelings of guilt and just live as they please.
Irrefutable! Love overcomes all obstacles…Not sure which religion you’re talking about, but it’s never good to foster feelings of guilt. Christianity is about the good news, about being free, not about carrying burdens on our shoulders.
Perhaps this thread is addressed to one such as myself.Even though they are not convinced atheism is true?
Clearly such is not the case. Love holds little currency with a psycopath or individual with fetal alcohol for example.Irrefutable! Love overcomes all obstacles…
I always find this aspect interesting. Perhaps this is simply a dice that I’m missing that most others have, but why must purpose come from an external source? Why not from within?Since that time I have struggled with a general lack of purpose. I simply have not well adjusted to the mindset of Earth and the Universe being the sole reality…I crave a deeper sub-set, yet I cannot seemingly find one sufficiently convincing to which I might subscribe.
I’d say pretty much the same thing. But then I wasn’t, and am not, expecting that my lack of belief would bring me joy. It’s an entirely neutral position as far as I am concerned. This is, of course, in direct opposition to what a Christian or a Muslim or Hindu might say about his or her belief - that it does bring them joy.Simply put, though I consider my position to be logical, consistent, reasonable, and valid, it does not bring me joy.
You could be encountering people that are following their cultural traditions.My question is why do people prefer to remain Catholic, protestant, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, even though they aren’t convinced these traditions are the truth.
People have an affiliative need to belong to a group. Being a member of a group satisfies an internal motivation. We are, as social psychologists say, social animals. Thus we prefer to remain members of groups and also to join groups, including CAF, even if we do not agree with everything that the group believes or stands for. I think the internal need of being a part of something and being accepted by the group is greater than the external benefits that the group may provide.You could be encountering people that are following their cultural traditions.
Also the simple across of identifying one’s self as not convinced of the truth of a specific religion can cause someone to be exhiled from their community. If identifying as being a part of some faith is needed for acceptance into a community then the answer to your question might be found by asking “why do people desire to stay a member of a community to which they belong…”
Purpose from an external source brings with it the potential for objective meaning…wherease personal purpose is merely subjective…and given that one is largely constrained by ones resources to acheive any personal aims, the fate of a purley interior, largely subjective, temporary, and potentially unshared purpose holds little lasting allure in comparison…I always find this aspect interesting. Perhaps this is simply a dice that I’m missing that most others have, but why must purpose come from an external source? Why not from within?
I believe that in my case Atheism came at too late a point in my life for many of the varied opportunties I may have alternately entertained had I been of different thinking from an earlier age…essentially I placed a greater purpose in God and as a result largely edited from my life all divergeant pathways from Him. This has left me on a trajectory that cannot be changed without a great deal of upset…yet the alternative is to continue along in a largely passionless existence.I’d say pretty much the same thing. But then I wasn’t, and am not, expecting that my lack of belief would bring me joy. It’s an entirely neutral position as far as I am concerned. This is, of course, in direct opposition to what a Christian or a Muslim or Hindu might say about his or her belief - that it does bring them joy.
So you could, at a stretch, say that they have something that I don’t. But it’s not something that I’m going to miss and if it gives them what they need, then it’s a good thing. For them.
That’s not to say that there haven’t been occasional moments of existential angst. Generally the type that you get around the camp fire at 2:00am nearing the end of a bottle of something or other staring either into the flames or into a star studded sky. But that’s been the case for as long as people have been sitting around fires thinking that ‘there must be a reason for all this’.
You just get the one shot at making a decision about that. A lot of people don’t think about it much at all and end up in one faith or another anyway. I find that difficult to understand. And a lot of people think about it a lot and can’t make the call either way.
Those who have put a lot into it and have faith, well it’s obviously a benefit for them. And those who have decided that this is not a dress rehearsal for some everlasting happy-ever-after, they have the peace of mind that comes with believing that they have made the right call.
Irrefutable! One of the fundamental weaknesses of atheism/materialism is its failure to account for purposeful activity - which undermines its claim to be rational and doesn’t correspond to the way every sane person behaves.Purpose from an external source brings with it the potential for objective meaning…wherease personal purpose is merely subjective…and given that one is largely constrained by ones resources to acheive any personal aims, the fate of a purley interior, largely subjective, temporary, and potentially unshared purpose holds little lasting allure in comparison…
I agree and admire the courage of atheists like Camus and Sartre who were prepared to take their scepticism to its logical conclusion. Yet paradoxically this demonstrates that our beliefs are not the products of forces beyond our control. Psychological determinism is self-refuting and self-contradictory because it presupposes our power to choose what to believe regardless of every other factor in our lives. We transcend our environment in a way that is impossible for scientists to explain and that is the outstanding obstacle to the belief that science will ultimately explain everything.People have an affiliative need to belong to a group. Being a member of a group satisfies an internal motivation. We are, as social psychologists say, social animals. Thus we prefer to remain members of groups and also to join groups, including CAF, even if we do not agree with everything that the group believes or stands for. I think the internal need of being a part of something and being accepted by the group is greater than the external benefits that the group may provide.