Why do some people prefer to be atheists?

[HerCrazierHalf]

Purpose from an external source brings with it the potential for objective meaning…wherease personal purpose is merely subjective…and given that one is largely constrained by ones resources to acheive any personal aims, the fate of a purley interior, largely subjective, temporary, and potentially unshared purpose holds little lasting allure in comparison…

Hmm … ok. I guess the need for some grand meaning or purpose is just not that big a deal for me.

 

[inocente]

Hmm … ok. I guess the need for some grand meaning or purpose is just not that big a deal for me.

Pah, everyone knows the purpose is 42, it’s the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything.

“This Answer was first calculated by the supercomputer Deep Thought after seven and a half million years of thought. This shocking answer resulted in the construction of an even larger supercomputer, named Earth, which was tasked with determining what the question was in the first place.” - hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/42 re Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Pah, everyone knows the purpose is 42, it’s the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything.

Ha, and your message is #42. IS that by accident? Or the result of an intelligent decision?

 

[puzzledtoo]

Thank you Hercrazierhalf and Daddygirl for your posts in this thread. Much of what you write I agree with but am not bright enough to articulate(lousy at getting my point across). Also I believe the part of Shirley Mclaine has been taken. Stay safe to all and be well.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Finally, as others have mentioned, some atheists may be going through a phase in their spiritual development and are perhaps influenced by friends and secular society in general. They may be convinced that belief in G-d is both a sign of weakness, a crutch, as well as fraught with hypocrisy since religious people are not necessarily good people.

Hypocrisy is never a reason to discount religion as true.

If we take the instance of a lawyer or a doctor who is unfaithful to the profession he purports to believe in, that makes him a hypocrite; but that does not allows us to conclude that what he supposedly believes in (the professions of law and medicine) are false.

I don’t doubt that what you say is used as a reason by some atheists for discounting the truthfulness of religion, but it surely is among the shallowest and phoniest of reasons.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

 We all apparently also need to be right and need conflict it would seem or in other words, where would believers be without non-believers? Maybe some people prefer to be atheists because that is the group/ideology that they receive the greatest comfort from.

How would you get comfort from the atheists by belonging to their group?

Let’s see.

:newidea:

I won’t be judged for my sins because there is no such thing as sin and no such judge as God?

 

[atjar]

How would you get comfort from the atheists by belonging to their group?

Let’s see.

:newidea:

I won’t be judged for my sins because there is no such thing as sin and no such judge as God?

I would believe you would get comfort belonging to a group that is grounded in proof, and absence of proof, it’s best not to believe in things that are irrational. AJ

 

[puzzledtoo]

Charlemagne lll,
Not being an atheist I can’t really speak as to absolutes but yes I can imagine that " I won’t be judged…" could qualify as one way to find comfort from that particular ideology. A Christian may bring food to the local food pantry or clothing to a rescue mission with the intent to help someone only. Another Christian may do the same actions with the intent of gaining merit, indulgences, for an easier time getting to the afterlife(if that is the belief-not sure). One atheist may do the same actions simply to help another human being while another may do them to impress someone(new girlfriend I suppose).
I suppose an atheist that doesn’t speed while driving is only concerned with not getting a ticket. A believer that doesn’t speed could be concerned about the ticket as well as whether it is sinful or not. Many posts on caf are " is ____________ a sin?" An atheist may be able to draw comfort from their ideology with not being bogged down in that type of thinking. I don’t think atheists believe there is a god/gods and denies it because it is easier. I think atheists actually believe there is no god so why be bothered. By the same token I do not believe in the hindu religion so I’m not going to bother with praying to Vishnu or shiva for anything. Seems kind of silly but they are doing the best they can with the knowledge they have at this moment. Be well-blessings-stay safe.

 

[meltzerboy]

Hypocrisy is never a reason to discount religion as true.

If we take the instance of a lawyer or a doctor who is unfaithful to the profession he purports to believe in, that makes him a hypocrite; but that does not allows us to conclude that what he supposedly believes in (the professions of law and medicine) are false.

I don’t doubt that what you say is used as a reason by some atheists for discounting the truthfulness of religion, but it surely is among the shallowest and phoniest of reasons.

I agree that this is the least convincing and most shallow of reasons for not believing in G-d, and is probably not the reason for most atheists. That is why I listed this reason as last. I think lack of sufficient evidence for the existence of G-d is the primary reason for not believing, together with the whole problem of relentless pain and suffering in the world.

 

[rose_kelly]

That’s not it at all
The same can be said about belief in a god…that people believe because of peer group…or someone they admire believes…or it’s a passing phase.
Is that why people believe in a god?

Most Atheists I know are such because they have researched, given it a lot of thought, and don’t see any evidence for it.
I would assume Theists also do the same? They research their religions to make sure they are solid, before they believe.

.

How do you know that?

My comment was addressing the thread question referring to atheists. That’s why I replied with that statement about some atheists, and by no means a generalisation of all of them
I shouldn’t even need to explain that.
.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I agree that this is the least convincing and most shallow of reasons for not believing in G-d, and is probably not the reason for most atheists. That is why I listed this reason as last. I think lack of sufficient evidence for the existence of G-d is the primary reason for not believing, together with the whole problem of relentless pain and suffering in the world.

Yes, I agree that the problem of relentless pain is a difficult one for theists, but certainly not insurmountable. The fact that relentless ecstasy is also in the offing counterbalances the problem of relentless pain. Atheism offers no relentless ecstasy and certainly cannot be a solution to the problem of relentless pain. Many a person in relentless pain has turned to God for help. They rarely turn to Nogod for help.

As to sufficient evidence, many of the things we believe in we believe in because we want to believe in them. That’s called hope. Hope is a virtue. The despair (call it resignation if you prefer) of atheism is hardly a virtue. Moreover, “sufficient evidence” is a moveable term. That is, you could be offered sufficient evidence and still, through stubborn pride, want more sufficient evidence; and nothing will suffer suffice short of a personal encounter with God, apparently the very thing the atheist is not even seeking and therefore is not likely ever to get.

 

[Bradski]

That is, until e.g. someone punches me in the face and calls it moral, than I see that morality is not relative, they can believe what they want but I know they are wrong and I take solace and comfort in Christ and His moral truths.

If someone smacks a guy in the mouth, I’m not sure that you could tell if he believed in God or not simply by that action alone. I’d assume he’d have a reason for doing it whatever belief system he held.

You could be encountering people that are following their cultural traditions.

I’ve never met a religious person who wasn’t.

People have an affiliative need to belong to a group.

I think there is some comfort (if that’s the right word) in realising that other people hold the same views. And yes, I know there are specific web sites and forums that atheists belong to, but I personally find that a little odd. And despite what DaddyGirl said earlier, I have found the holier-than-thou attitude of many members on some atheist forums a little grating. Discussions there are certainly more, how shall I say it, robust…

Having surrendered all potential for earthly progress in favor of said greater purpose I have, in changing faith mid-way, essentially arrived at a premature end of all such ideals…yet I have travelled much too far along to make any reversals worthy of the effort.

I guess if you have subscribed to a particular belief, then it is, at the time, a positive for you. It must add something to your life. And if you then realise that you have maybe backed the wrong horse, losing your faith might leave a gap that feels like it needs to be filled. And atheism isn’t something concrete or specific that is likely to be able to do that. Atheism is simply shorthand for saying something along the lines of: ‘By the way, I have come to the conclusion that I don’t believe in gods’.

I know that a lot of people get a lot of joy in believing in God. But I can’t say I wake up every morning and think ‘Yes! What a wonderful day to not believe in gods…’

Irrefutable! One of the fundamental weaknesses of atheism/materialism is its failure to account for purposeful activity - which undermines its claim to be rational and doesn’t correspond to the way every sane person behaves.

You mean ultimate purpose, Tony. Ultimate purpose.

Most Atheists I know are such because they have researched, given it a lot of thought, and don’t see any evidence for it.
I would assume Theists also do the same? They research their religions to make sure they are solid, before they believe?

I have never known any that research prior to becoming a member of any religion. There are plenty who do so after. I can’t see the logic in stating a belief and then studying to find out why it’s true.

Can I be the Shirley MacLaine in your Rational Rat Pack?!

We have a Rational Rat Pack! The R2P (which maybe sounds a bit Star Warsy).

 

[Charlemagne_III]

. The despair (call it resignation if you prefer) of atheism is hardly a virtue. Moreover, “sufficient evidence” is a moveable term. That is, you could be offered sufficient evidence and still, through stubborn pride, want more sufficient evidence; and no evidence will ever suffice short of a personal encounter with God, apparently the very thing the atheist is not even seeking and therefore is not likely ever to get.

Perhaps I should have said the atheist is seeking God in order to avoid meeting him?

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Perhaps I should have said the atheist is seeking God in order to avoid meeting him?

Huh?

 

[Aloysium]

Huh?

Charlie can speak for himself. What I got out of it is as follows:

Now, I seek God because He is the Truth, the Light, the Source of all there is with all its glory, beauty and grandeur.
He is the fulfillment of all desires that are built into my human Nature. He is Love, eternal.

I do this by:

• contemplating holy scripture
• engaging in conversations with other people
• engaging in a conversation with Him; praying I verbalize my need for His graces.
• doing charitable acts, giving of myself in various ways to others
• giving of myself to Him in my struggles to do His will
• lessening my dependency on what is transient such as money, pleasure, and honour
• participating in the mass and partaking of the Eucharist
  In these and other ways, a transformation occurs in the person who becomes more Christ-like, journeying along the Way to God.
  Existence is all about relating. The ultimate relationship is that of the Trinity into which we can grow.

To the degree that the atheist would do likewise, they would grow towards God, who is Love.

However, what works against this is the intellect, which having been inculcated from birth with the beliefs, mores and myths belonging to the zeitgeist of modern secularism, constructs from them a golden cognitive cage of ephemeral “rationality”.
Safe within the confines of its prison, numbed and merely self-satisfied, the soul does not venture out to soar towards God.

Think about it, being an atheist boils down to being a member of a heretical Judeo-Christian cult, whose purpose is to say, “No!” to what the religious institutions on which they are dependent tells us of God.
Identify with what you do believe in, not the weird notions you have about a God you refuse to relate to.

 

[Bradski]

Identify with what you do believe in, not the weird notions you have about a God you refuse to relate to.

Firstly being an atheist does not just mean one doesn’t believe in the Abrahamic God.

Secondly, and as I have pointed out a number of times recently, an atheist doesn’t have a personal concept of God. All the concepts that each of us has are those given to us by others. And that would include yourself.

Each time you describe the God in which you believe, I am in effect mentally saying to myself, subconsciously if not consciously, that is something in which I don’t believe. Some people believe in a vengeful God. Some people believe in a God that speaks to them personally. Some people believe in a God that created everything as we see it now. I don’t believe in all of them.

There isn’t some specific atheist concept of what God is in which we don’t believe. God is what you and Charles and Rose and Peter and PR and Tony and every single other Christian, tells me He is.

 

[Gilrod7]

I find my whole situation ironic because most of my good friends and family are atheists, or don’t really care about religious/spiritual matters, they are indifferent to the whole topic. There was a point in my life when I considered becoming an atheist; however, the answers that philosophy and science gave me, did not satisfy me at all, in fact, it is because of philosophy and science that not only have I been able to formulate coherent arguments regarding all the topics that may pertain to God and Christianity, but also saved my faith.

To answer your question, in short, in my opinion, I believe with absolute certainty that the whole reason why people turn to atheism, is because of the faults of people in organized religions, particularly the umbrella of Christianity, and Islam; yes this includes Catholicism too. No matter what, either you have it, or you don’t; either one believes in God, or one does not believe in God, hence, as human beings we should accept to live with that fact. There is no easy answer for your question, there is a lot of complexity involved in your concern, many things to consider.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Can I be the Shirley MacLaine in your Rational Rat Pack?!

Sure, I guess. Not surprisingly there hasn’t been any demand for being the Joey Bishop of the group.

To the degree that the atheist would do likewise, they would grow towards God, who is Love.

Some of the items you listed I personally do. I contemplate holy scripture, but I find it wanting. I engage in conversations with others and I perform charitable acts. One can strive to be a more caring and giving person; to work each day to be better emotionally, psychologically, and physically; to overall be a better person and a better member of society at large, growing towards love, all without the need of a god (yours or any others).

However, what works against this is the intellect, which having been inculcated from birth with the beliefs, mores and myths belonging to the zeitgeist of modern secularism, constructs from them a golden cognitive cage of ephemeral “rationality”.
Safe within the confines of its prison, numbed and merely self-satisfied, the soul does not venture out to soar towards God.

I’m always leery about calls to forego one’s intellect. Sure we have our biases that we grew up on and today live with, but it’s through understanding and wisdom that we can appreciate cultures beyond our own. The soul must be weak or poorly-designed if it can be kept docile so easily.

Think about it, being an atheist boils down to being a member of a heretical Judeo-Christian cult, whose purpose is to say, “No!” to what the religious institutions on which they are dependent tells us of God.

I will restate what Bradski said, that atheism is not a dismissal of just your god. Those atheists in places like India and Bangladesh are not that because of a rejection of solely the Judeo-Christian version of god.

Identify with what you do believe in, not the weird notions you have about a God you refuse to relate to.

Atheists as a whole do not share a singular belief apart from the lack of a belief in a deity. Some atheists believe in a spiritual realm and/or reincarnation. Some are for or against trickle-down economics. It’s possible there are some atheists who are Philadelphia Eagles fans {shudder}. This whole topic is about why allegedly some atheists might not believe there isn’t a god but still call themselves atheists. You can’t have that topic then complain they don’t have other common beliefs.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Huh?

Perhaps it would have been clearer if I had just quoted Chesterton.

“The atheist looks for God like the thief looks for a policeman” (obviously not wanting to find one).

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Perhaps it would have been clearer if I had just quoted Chesterton.

“The atheist looks for God like the thief looks for a policeman” (obviously not wanting to find one).

Oh ok. That includes an odd assumption though.