why do some people think Catholics don't know Jesus?

[NotTooSmart]

Yet again there is a need for correction in your statement. What do you mean by going to mass regularly? It is NOT a sin by not attending mass regularly; it is only if you don’t without compelling reason on Sundays and days of obligation.

That is what I meant. Sorry that I did not express it well.

 

[MercyMia]

I think “know Jesus” is sometimes a code-phrase by certain denominations where it really means “belongs to our particular church and subscribes to our exact doctrines.” Some preachers are obsessed with growing their churches so the first thing they have to do is teach that they have exclusive rights to Jesus.
My husband grew up in the church of Christ denominations and this was certainly the case for the. To “know Jesus” was to be lock in step with coc beliefs. If you didn’t believe the bible according to their doctrine, well then you hadn’t read the bible. When he tried to explain that he had and he just didn’t agree with them, it was dismissed as you didn’t “really” read it. Same thing with knowing Jesus, unless you believe everything they tell you, you did not really “know Jesus.” I think it’s kind of sick and it turns someone’s relationship to Jesus into a control issue.
Yes, plenty of people in the Catholic Church do not really know Jesus, mostly because they are chasing feelings and not Jesus. Then they leave and join another church, often times they still don’t know Jesus, they just know hype and social time that gets them really excited and they think they have Jesus. This is why many evangelicals are church hoppers, because the buzz does not last long and they need to jump to the next hype so they can “know Jesus” even better. Father Corapi has a saying, something like, if you don’t know what love is you had better look at a crucifix real fast. I think the same applies to Jesus, since Jesus is love. If you don’t “know Jesus” you had better look at a crucifix real fast! All the potlucks and socializing and fuzzy feelings will not ever get you to know him like contemplating his sacrifice.

 

[Reuben_J]

That is what I meant. Sorry that I did not express it well.

Then it was well said.

 

[kalt]

How do you know that I “understand so little about Catholicism”. Admittedly I don’t know everything, but how little must you know in order to “understand so little about Catholicism”?

The evidence was in your post. You goofed on basic concepts.

Are you saying that you don’t understand the basics, but are conversant in advanced Catholic theology?

 

[kalt]

Hi Kalt,

Yes, but they only thing they have in common with us Christian/Catholics is that they too believe in Christ, but they do not follow what Christ teaches. So in the biblle where it says “Why do you say Lord, Lord when you don’t do as I say?”, is for all non-Catholic Christians. Private Interpretation isn’t cool.

I understand, but I think they do follow what Christ teaches. Whenever they act like Christ, they are following what Christ teaches. I understand, though, what you are saying. They are denying His church. Not cool", as you say. And I think their tendency to tell others to deny and even see as evil, the CC, they are especially in error. Leading others away or keeping others from the Church that Christ founded is decidely not cool.

There is a lot of good in their churches, though, even though they believe some things that aren’t true and leave out some of the truth. Where they’re right, they’re right. We can’t deny that because we would be denying that the Christ’s Church also has it right.

 

[NotTooSmart]

The evidence was in your post. You goofed on basic concepts.

Are you saying that you don’t understand the basics, but are conversant in advanced Catholic theology?

Specifics please. Perhaps I did not word something well and need to clarify. That happens.

 

[distracted]

It really doesn’t matter what Evangelicals have or haven’t. The latter part is they haven’t had the truth in their church and that’s what it’s about isn’t it? So be proud Catholics, that you are in the church founded by Jesus Christ and by Jesus Christ only.
it.

i wouldnt’ say they have NO truth in their churches (ecclessial communitites, as the One Church calls them)

but a little bit of truth can be a dangerous thing, as someone once said.

i know of many Protestants who have been “in love with Jesus” but then eventually fallen away…

I know of NO catechized Catholics who have fallen away… @ least i don’t any personally… There’s Fr Greely and a few others… but i think they fall away because they just get tired of the difficulties involved w/ being Catholic…

by the way, do you know much about him? I saw a book by him @ the library, didn’t wnt to touch it… plus was trying to read 20 other books at that time…

 

[distracted]

Mark, I agree there are Catholics out there who at one point didn’t know Jesus cause they took the Church for granted or weren’t properly catechized… but see what worries me is how people say that if you’re Catholic, you can’t know Jesus, unless you leave the Church and “accept Christ” in a Protestant church… or if you “accept Christ” by saying the “sinners prayer”… but we are actually called to repentance every time we go to Confession…it’s not like the Church somehow prevents people from knowing Jesus and they have to leave it in order to find Him. (quite the contrary, they have to become yet more Catholic, not less…)

.)

i can relate to this and everything else you say. You seem to be a kindred spirit…

i too began to know Jesus intimately when i got back into the Cathlic Church… after having been gone for SO SO long… and i was gone so long because i didn’t know the faith… wasn’t catechized as a child… that wasn’t completely my parents’ fault because they were not catechized either… not that i know of… one wasn’t even Catholic before marriage.

i don’t u/stand why the Church does not catechize its people well… a great mystery to me… it’s almost like most Catholcis are ashamed to admit they are Catholic, much less spread the faith… Even i, devout, out-spoken Cathlic that i am… have a problem sometimes… sharing what i know. I think, for one, we get tired of “going there” becaus we know Protestants are going to “pounce on us” as it were… so that’s un/standable but we Catholcis have GOT to evangelize, like the protestants do… That’s one thing i admire about them…

plus, protestants claims that Catholics can be cold… are totally warranted…

I have often felt i didn’t even want to be Catholic anymore because of the way some members of the Chrch treat other members…

but i could never leave the Eucharist (and other things: the moral, infallible, dogmas & doctrines of the Church…etc)

 

[kalt]

A few random comments:

Nowhere in Scripture is membership in a denomination equated with knowing Jesus.

If a Catholic claims they did not know Christ while a member of the Catholic church and came to Christ through some other mechanism than the Catholic church, who am I to disbelieve him.

Catholics should be happy when this happens. Isn’t knowing Jesus what it is all about. By the same token, Protestants should be happy if the same thing happens in reverse.

Isn’t it a mortal sin if you don’t go to mass regularly unless you go to confession. If a Catholic is in mortal sin, then per their own faith they do not know Jesus. I would think you should be happy if a Catholic in mortal sin comes to Jesus Christ a mechanism other than the Catholic church.

Just because some Catholics do not know Jesus, it does not necessarily mean that all Catholics do not know Jesus. It is too broad for any Protestant to make a general statement Catholics do not know Jesus. Some do. And I for one think it is condescending to add “despite the church” to this statement. Who am I to say it is “despite their church”.

Who says our churches do not have the truth. Jesus is the truth.

Oh by the way, as far as the Catholic church being the “church founded by Jesus”. Have you ever heard the words of Jesus to Jews who were bragging about their lineage. Hint, he was not impressed. So even if that statement is true…

I know I am going to get flamed for these comments. I probably will not respond (maybe I will but I doubt it). It is just too tiring to do so.

Catholics should not be happy when someone leaves the church. You may believe this “should be” true, but you don’t know what Catholics “should be happy” about.
The idea that Catholics should be happy for someone who is denying his faith is not a Catholic idea.

It isn’t true that someone who doesn’t attend Mass regularly is necessarily in mortal sin. If they have good reason not to go to Mass - illness, for example - it is not any kind of sin. There is no sin, venial or mortal. If a person misses Mass for no good reason, it is a mortal sin, even if he goes to Confession. You can’t confess something ahead of time, so there is no way to miss Mass for no good reason and have it not be a mortal sin. If he Confesses after the fact, expecting that he’ll probably miss Mass again for no good reason (knowing that he’s not likely to attend weekly and for no good reason), it is not a “good confession”. I think that you don’t understand the “rules” of the Church or what Confession is and isn’t.

If someone is in mortal sin because they aren’t going to Mass (and for no good reason), leaving the Church isn’t a solution. It isn’t something that Catholicism celebrates. Someone’s denying Christ’s Church isn’t a celebratory event in Catholicism. Catholics should pray for fellow Catholics who leave the Church, not celebrate.

This is why I say that you shouldn’t be telling Catholics what they “should” do in this situation. You don’t undestand the faith. You don’t undestand the basic concepts of the Catholic Church, and nothing proves it more clearly than your statement that the Catholic Church should rejoice when one of its members gives up the Sacraments.

 

[kalt]

i can relate to this and everything else you say. You seem to be a kindred spirit…

i too began to know Jesus intimately when i got back into the Cathlic Church… after having been gone for SO SO long… and i was gone so long because i didn’t know the faith… wasn’t catechized as a child… that wasn’t completely my parents’ fault because they were not catechized either… not that i know of… one wasn’t even Catholic before marriage.

i don’t u/stand why the Church does not catechize its people well… a great mystery to me… it’s almost like most Catholcis are ashamed to admit they are Catholic, much less spread the faith… Even i, devout, out-spoken Cathlic that i am… have a problem sometimes… sharing what i know. I think, for one, we get tired of “going there” becaus we know Protestants are going to “pounce on us” as it were… so that’s un/standable but we Catholcis have GOT to evangelize, like the protestants do… That’s one thing i admire about them…

plus, protestants claims that Catholics can be cold… are totally warranted…

I have often felt i didn’t even want to be Catholic anymore because of the way some members of the Chrch treat other members…

but i could never leave the Eucharist (and other things: the moral, infallible, dogmas & doctrines of the Church…etc)

My parents did get a good education in the Catholic faith, and they assumed that the Church had done the same for me. Not true.

It was only when I found myself defending the faith (on a non-religion site) against the false claims of Baptists that I realized how much I loved it. I began to educate myself further. Luckily, there is a wealth of accurate information out there for us Catholics to use.

So, that debate is what really got me thinking about my religion again. I realized how much misinformation was out there, and in responding, I also realized that I only knew the basics you need to get through a CCD (not called that way back when) program that was big on “being a good Christian” and not so big on teaching the Catechism.

There are a lot of us who were in the same boat.

 

[kalt]

Catholics should not be happy when someone leaves the church. You may believe this “should be” true, but you don’t know what Catholics “should be happy” about.
The idea that Catholics should be happy for someone who is denying his faith is not a Catholic idea.

It isn’t true that someone who doesn’t attend Mass regularly is necessarily in mortal sin. If they have good reason not to go to Mass - illness, for example - it is not any kind of sin. There is no sin, venial or mortal. If a person misses Mass for no good reason, it is a mortal sin, even if he goes to Confession. You can’t confess something ahead of time, so there is no way to miss Mass for no good reason and have it not be a mortal sin. If he Confesses after the fact, expecting that he’ll probably miss Mass again for no good reason (knowing that he’s not likely to attend weekly and for no good reason), it is not a “good confession”. I think that you don’t understand the “rules” of the Church or what Confession is and isn’t.

If someone is in mortal sin because they aren’t going to Mass (and for no good reason), leaving the Church isn’t a solution. It isn’t something that Catholicism celebrates. Someone’s denying Christ’s Church isn’t a celebratory event in Catholicism. Catholics should pray for fellow Catholics who leave the Church, not celebrate.

This is why I say that you shouldn’t be telling Catholics what they “should” do in this situation. You don’t undestand the faith. You don’t undestand the basic concepts of the Catholic Church, and nothing proves it more clearly than your statement that the Catholic Church should rejoice when one of its members gives up the Sacraments.

Just want to clarify that switching churches isn’t a solution to the mortal sin of not going to Mass, because the Catholic is still not going to Mass, and worse, is now denying his faith and has given up the Sacraments. But this is the “solution” that you think the Catholic Church should rejoice over.

 

[Departed_Light]

I think it comes from people speaking from their own personal experiences. Then they come upon others that have had similar experiences. Then this collection of like experiences morphs into a reality that may not actually exist.

I think if we looked at the same sort of logic from a perspective outside our own closely held religious beliefs it’s easier to see. Like a prejudice. A black man once was rude to me. Really? Me too! Yeah, me too. Must be black men are just generally rude. Yeah, gotta be. Well, um, no not really. But we see how these things go.

Add the zeal and heartfelt compassion people have for their particular faith and it’s even more deeply seeded.

So I guess the reason some folks say things like, ‘Catholics don’t know Jesus’ is out of ignorance.

Sadly, once a prejudice has formed it very difficult to change it.

 

[NotTooSmart]

Catholics should not be happy when someone leaves the church. You may believe this “should be” true, but you don’t know what Catholics “should be happy” about.
The idea that Catholics should be happy for someone who is denying his faith is not a Catholic idea.

So it is better for somebody to be Catholic and not know Jesus than not be Catholic and know Jesus? Please explain? Per Catholicism do you have eternal life without knowing Jesus? Then how do you have eternal life? By obeying the rules and not knowing Jesus?

You are the one that is saying it is better to be Catholic and not know Jesus than be Protestant and know Jesus. Or at least that is what you are implying.

Gee, just when I get the impression that Catholics and Protestants agree on what is most important here, I get thrown this.

I have always had the impression that yes we both agreed that you have to know Jesus to have eternal life. The differences really being the different versions of Christianese we use to explain this as well as possibly the different manners (or spiritualities) we use to express this. But again, maybe I have misunderstood, and Catholicism really is a works based faith as your critics have charged.

Maybe this is just your opinion and not the teaching of Catholicism?

It isn’t true that someone who doesn’t attend Mass regularly is necessarily in mortal sin. If they have good reason not to go to Mass - illness, for example - it is not any kind of sin. There is no sin, venial or mortal. If a person misses Mass for no good reason, it is a mortal sin, even if he goes to Confession. You can’t confess something ahead of time, so there is no way to miss Mass for no good reason and have it not be a mortal sin. If he Confesses after the fact, expecting that he’ll probably miss Mass again for no good reason (knowing that he’s not likely to attend weekly and for no good reason), it is not a “good confession”. I think that you don’t understand the “rules” of the Church or what Confession is and isn’t.

If someone is in mortal sin because they aren’t going to Mass (and for no good reason), leaving the Church isn’t a solution. It isn’t something that Catholicism celebrates. Someone’s denying Christ’s Church isn’t a celebratory event in Catholicism. Catholics should pray for fellow Catholics who leave the Church, not celebrate.

As you can read above, I clarified this point.

 

[kalt]

So it is better for somebody to be Catholic and not know Jesus than not be Catholic and know Jesus? Please explain? Per Catholicism do you have eternal life without knowing Jesus? Then how do you have eternal life? By obeying the rules and not knowing Jesus?

You are the one that is saying it is better to be Catholic and not know Jesus than be Protestant and know Jesus. Or at least that is what you are implying.

Gee, just when I get the impression that Catholics and Protestants agree on what is most important here, I get thrown this.

Maybe this is just your opinion and not the teaching of Catholicism?

As you can read above, I clarified this point.

Actually, you didn’t “clarify” it. Someone else said something you didn’t, and you agreed with him.

Not attending Mass isn’t proof that someone doesn’t “know Jesus”, but this is the claim you’ve made. It’s your job to prove that point.

You are still arguing that the CC should rejoice when a Catholic (and we don’t assume that Catholics don’t “know Jesus” even if they don’t go to Mass every week), leaves the Church that Christ founded. It is not a solution to the mortal sin of not attending Mass regularly (without good cause). You seem to be unaware of this very basic Catholic concept. The solution to Mass attendance isn’t to walk away from the CC altogethe, leaving the Sacraments, including the Holy Eucharist, which is the real presence of Christ.

Now you are asking if I believe someone can be saved by obeying the rules and not believing. I said nothing like that. In fact, in your example the Catholic isn’t “obeying the rules”, is he? Catholics don’t believe that following the letter of the law will save anyone. Again, you misunderstand Catholicism. But it’s a common accusation against Catholics, so it’s understanable.

You are setting this up as if there are only two choices. Be a Catholic and not “know Jesus”, or belong to another Christian church and “know Jesus”. There is no reason to accept this premise.

The solution to not “knowing Jesus” is to attend Mass and attend to your spiritual life. Walking away is not the solution that the CC would rejoice over, and yet you say that Catholics “should”.

I didn’t imply that it’s better to be a Catholic and not “know Jesus” than to be a non-Catholic and “know Jesus”. I don’t accept the premise you’ve set up for this debate in the first place. You have chosen to set it up as an either-or, and that is a false premise.

If you claim that a person’s not attending Mass is proof that he doesn’t “know Jesus”, leaving the Church and the Mass can’t be the solution, can it. If he leaves the Church, he’s still not attending Mass and is still in mortal sin. If you set up the premise this way (as you did in your first post–a Catholic who doens’t attend Mass doesn’t know Jesus), the only solution can be to attend Mass. Going to another church which doesn’t have a valid Mass is useless.

I do not accept the claim that you’ve made (that a Catholic who misses Mass doesn’t know Jesus).You will have to prove that claim.

It would help if you define “know Jesus”.

 

[humblelurker]

When Catholics begin to behave like Christians, people will mistake them for Christians - but not before. As for being hurt, Catholics have no objection to hurting others; they do it all the time. So if Catholics feel hurt, they are getting a taste of their own medicine. I hope they enjoy it - they are the ones who idealise suffering, so they have no reason to complain.​

I, the son of converts to Catholicism, myself grew up a 2nd class citizen where people in our church were not given jobs, or fired from jobs, when it was found out that they were Catholics. My parents were harassed at work, and we were harassed at school. This was in Utah, but I have heard Catholics talk about how bad they were treated in the “Bible Belt” by so-called “Christians.” Currently I live in another state, but out of the plethora of protestant churches and 3 Catholic Churches in this city only 2 Catholic Churches and 1 Protestant Church tries to help the poor in our community (help with food and bills). The others just send people to us and help only their own kind. I have even had a protestant looking for help accuse us of being rich (we are a poor church on the poor side of the city), and I politely explain to him how most of the funds we get are from our parishioners, most of who are on welfare. I’m not a bigot, and I don’t label Protestants (or Mormons) as needing to behave like Christians. Nor do I claim that all Protestants hurt others, and need some form of comeuppance. The demon of bigotry is an equal opportunity exploiter. Anyone can fall under its evil grip no matter what color your skin is or religion you are, and anyone willing to listen to his teachings will become a mindless hatemonger. If we treat people as ourselves then that would solve the problems all the way around, but that don’t always happen. This is why we need to pray more. I have had my fair share of trouble in my life, and repentance is a continuous thing for me. Gottle of Geer I will pray for you.

 

[NotTooSmart]

Actually, you didn’t “clarify” it. Someone else said something you didn’t, and you agreed with him.

Yes. I clarified that I agreed with his wording. Sometimes I don’t word stuff f correctly. If that means I am grossly ignorant of Catholicism I am sorry.

Not attending Mass isn’t proof that someone doesn’t “know Jesus”, but this is the claim you’ve made. It’s your job to prove that point.

Isn’t missing mass (under the circumstances described above) a mortal sin? And isn’t it true that if one dies unrepentant in a mortal sin they go to hell? Well if that is true, then you have a scenario where one is destined for hell and knows Christ at the same time. That is a contradiction.

You are still arguing that the CC should rejoice when a Catholic (and we don’t assume that Catholics don’t “know Jesus” even if they don’t go to Mass every week), denying the Church that Christ founded.

It is not a solution to the mortal sin of not attending Mass regularly (without good cause). You seem to be unaware of this very basic Catholic concept. The solution to Mass attendance isn’t to walk away from the CC altogethe, leaving the Sacraments, including the Holy Eucharist, which is the real presence of Christ.

I understand it is preferable to a Catholic that one remain in his church. And looking at my original post, perhaps “be happy” is a little too strong language and subject to being misunderstood. Sometimes I do not use quite the words that I should to express my thoughts. That is why I am NotTooSmart.

But if one is in the state of mortal sin and going to hell as a Catholic and the state of their eternal soul changes from going to hell to having eternal life with Christ, I would think that the change in status of their eternal soul would be recognized as a good thing, while at the same time possibly believing that it would have been better if this change in state had happened in the Catholic church.

Now you are asking if I believe someone can be saved by obeying the rules and not believing. I said nothing like that. In fact, in your example the Catholic isn’t “obeying the rules”, is he? Catholics don’t believe that following the letter of the law will save anyone. Again, you misunderstand Catholicism. But it’s a common accusation against Catholics, so it’s understanable.

To clarify, I didn’t think that Catholics believed that following the letter of the saved anybody. But I was wondering aloud whether I misunderstood Catholicism on this point. I am glad to know that I did not. However, sometimes I read things here that make me wonder whether I am misunderstanding Catholicism on this very important point.

You are setting this up as if there are only two choices. Be a Catholic and not “know Jesus”, or belong to another Christian church and “know Jesus”. There is no reason to accept this premise.

Did I say that it is impossible to be a Catholic and know Jesus? Good grief, I thought I said the opposite.

The solution to not “knowing Jesus” is to attend Mass and attend to your spiritual life. Walking away is not the solution that the CC would rejoice over, and yet you say that Catholics “should”.

Actually the solution to mortal sin is going to confession, attending mass, and attending to your spiritual life. The solution to not knowing Jesus is to get to know Him.

As I said, my language was a shade to strong. You should not if you don’t want to “rejoice” over someone leaving your church. But I would think at least you should recognize that somebody having their eternal life destination changed from heading to hell to heading to heaven is a good thing.

I didn’t imply that it’s better to be a Catholic and not “know Jesus” than to be a non-Catholic and “know Jesus”. I don’t accept the premise you’ve set up for this debate in the first place. You have chosen to set it up as an either-or, and that is a false premise.

Then let me ask this way. Is it better to be Catholic and destined for hell or Protestant and destined for heaven…

I do not accept the claim that you’ve made (that a Catholic who misses Mass doesn’t know Jesus).You will have to prove that claim.

Well then if that claim is false, then you have the case of somebody who is going to hell knowing Christ. If that is possible in Catholicism then please explain because I have misunderstood you.

It would help if you define “know Jesus”.

I will be glad to. This phrase can be Protestant Christianese at times.

The theological term for this is “regeneration”. Regeneration is the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the believer. Catholics believe this happens at baptism. Us evangelicals often emphasize (perhaps a little too much) that this happens as a point in time experience. Irregardless of how this happens, the important point is that it must happen (and for those of you who are not eternally secure) remain current.

If you are regenerated, then you know Jesus.

 

[happilycatholic]

When Catholics begin to behave like Christians, people will mistake them for Christians - but not before. As for being hurt, Catholics have no objection to hurting others; they do it all the time. So if Catholics feel hurt, they are getting a taste of their own medicine. I hope they enjoy it - they are the ones who idealise suffering, so they have no reason to complain.​

Amazing testimony. Truly amazing.

How much more judgmental can one person be as they stand on their own pedistal?

God Bless you Gottle of Geer.

May an Angel whisper Truth in your ear and soften your heart to it.

HC

 

[4EverHis]

It’s a shame that Campus Crusade has that problem. I’ve run into it too. Sometimes i think there needs to be an apostolate solely for the purpose of educating Protestant leaders about the Catholic faith. The disinformation is truly astounding. (I say this because of what I’ve heard from Campus Crusade staff…)

Love is Patient

I’d have to agree with this…

I think Middleman made some valid points on this question. For Catholics, the relationship with Jesus is centered around the Eucharist. For many Protestants, it is centered around His word, through scripture. So in some ways, Catholics could be thought to have a deeper understanding of Jesus, while Protestants have a broader understanding. They preach knowing his Word and accepting Him as a personal savior, while Catholics are more focused on liturgy, sacraments, and receiving Him through the Eucharist.

To Protestants, they could translate into Catholics “not really knowing Jesus.”

some good thoughts here

That was one smart answer chaucygardner.

We are a lot more quiet in our worship than many other forms of christian worship.

I think the over zealous maryism on some part of catholics place a big role. As well as the crown who does their 45 minutes each Sunday at mass and then have no idea what is written in the bible is another problem.

I don’t think “over zealous maryism” exists. Yes we love Our Lady, and we should. There’s no such thing as “loving her too much”. We don’t have to be apologetic about it or tone her down so much that Protestants might be comfortable with her. If a Protestant has a problem with how we view Mary, we’ll be more than happy to explain, give some resources, and prayers always helps too

Sorry

When Catholics begin to behave like Christians, people will mistake them for Christians - but not before. As for being hurt, Catholics have no objection to hurting others; they do it all the time. So if Catholics feel hurt, they are getting a taste of their own medicine. I hope they enjoy it - they are the ones who idealise suffering, so they have no reason to complain.​

I sense a lot of bitterness in your post Gottle of Geer… there are many Catholics who are good Christians and are loving to others. I think there’s both good and bad in BOTH Catholicism and Protestantism.

 

[4EverHis]

I agree with this. For us Catholics that have a sure testimony of the truth of the Faith, it doesn’t really matter what evangelicals think about our relationships with the Savior. They like to talk on and on about Mary, the canonized saints, etc. They NEVER actually understand those beliefs. In fact, I spent MANY posts, along with other Catholics, over on CARM trying to explain that “mother of God” does not mean that Mary pre-existed God, or contributed to Jesus’ divinity. And yet, they don’t want to understand our beliefs, since they kept saying “mary did not contribute anything to Jesus’ divinity”, “mary was the mother of a man”, “mary can’t be the mother of the Trinity”, etc. So it really comes down to evangelicals not wanting to even understand us, no matter how much we try to explain that their understanding of our Faith is, in most cases, erroneous.

I tend to think that in many cases, this isn’t really their fault, but in how they have been taught

A few random comments:

Nowhere in Scripture is membership in a denomination equated with knowing Jesus.

If a Catholic claims they did not know Christ while a member of the Catholic church and came to Christ through some other mechanism than the Catholic church, who am I to disbelieve him.

Catholics should be happy when this happens. Isn’t knowing Jesus what it is all about. By the same token, Protestants should be happy if the same thing happens in reverse.

I see what you are saying, but I don’t think I could ever be happy about anyone leaving the Sacraments. If a Catholic went to a Protestant service and got closer to God there, but then stayed Catholic and started going to Mass faithfully, that’s a great thing and I’d be very glad. But if they leave the Church… they are leaving the Sacraments, and all the teachings that we believe are infallible… and that is very sad. I don’t think that’s what God would have intended. He can use Protestantism to bring someone closer to Himself, perhaps, yes, but this doesn’t mean He wants any Catholic to actually leave the Church… sometimes we forget that God can use anything. Just because someone felt His presence in a Protestant church, doesn’t mean it’s His will for them to be Protestant.

also, about denominations… the Catholic Church is not a denomination… it’s the Church. And in the Bible, it says the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Denominations only exist in Protestantism, and never existed in the early Church or for the first 1500 years of Christianity. In the early Church, there was only Catholicism… and yes, being in the Church was very important, and still is. Remember how Saul persecuted Christ by persecuting the Church…

Isn’t it a mortal sin if you don’t go to mass regularly unless you go to confession. If a Catholic is in mortal sin, then per their own faith they do not know Jesus. I would think you should be happy if a Catholic in mortal sin comes to Jesus Christ a mechanism other than the Catholic church.

if a Catholic in mortal sin leaves the Church, they’d still be in mortal sin. The solution is go to Confession… and Jesus is there at Confession, it’s not just the priest.

btw the Church doesn’t teach that a person in mortal sin doesn’t know Jesus…

I’m not really sure about your first sentence… it’s a mortal sin to receive the Eucharist without Confession if you’re not in a state of grace. But even if we can’t receive the Eucharist, we still have to go to Mass to fulfill our Sunday obligation

Just because some Catholics do not know Jesus, it does not necessarily mean that all Catholics do not know Jesus. It is too broad for any Protestant to make a general statement Catholics do not know Jesus. Some do. And I for one think it is condescending to add “despite the church” to this statement. Who am I to say it is “despite their church”.

that’s what I was saying too.

Who says our churches do not have the truth. Jesus is the truth.

Protestants have some of the truth but not the whole thing… sorry I know that must sound offensive, but I don’t mean it to be. See what I mean is that yes Jesus is the truth, but He gave Himself to the Church, - He gave the truth to the Church… and it’s still there. It’s fully in the Catholic Church… all the doctrines and teachings and Sacraments. Protestants can still know Jesus, and they do, and they are not cut off from salvation cause through their baptism, they’re imperfectly joined to the Church… but it is significant that they don’t have the Sacraments.

Oh by the way, as far as the Catholic church being the “church founded by Jesus”. Have you ever heard the words of Jesus to Jews who were bragging about their lineage. Hint, he was not impressed. So even if that statement is true…

I think you’re taking that out of context… who is bragging? is it bragging to have faith? yes, the Catholic Church was the one founded by Jesus… it doesn’t make me better than you if you’re not Catholic… but it does mean that there is only one Church.

 

[4EverHis]

I think “know Jesus” is sometimes a code-phrase by certain denominations where it really means “belongs to our particular church and subscribes to our exact doctrines.” Some preachers are obsessed with growing their churches so the first thing they have to do is teach that they have exclusive rights to Jesus.
My husband grew up in the church of Christ denominations and this was certainly the case for the. To “know Jesus” was to be lock in step with coc beliefs. If you didn’t believe the bible according to their doctrine, well then you hadn’t read the bible. When he tried to explain that he had and he just didn’t agree with them, it was dismissed as you didn’t “really” read it. Same thing with knowing Jesus, unless you believe everything they tell you, you did not really “know Jesus.” I think it’s kind of sick and it turns someone’s relationship to Jesus into a control issue.
Yes, plenty of people in the Catholic Church do not really know Jesus, mostly because they are chasing feelings and not Jesus. Then they leave and join another church, often times they still don’t know Jesus, they just know hype and social time that gets them really excited and they think they have Jesus. This is why many evangelicals are church hoppers, because the buzz does not last long and they need to jump to the next hype so they can “know Jesus” even better. Father Corapi has a saying, something like, if you don’t know what love is you had better look at a crucifix real fast. I think the same applies to Jesus, since Jesus is love. If you don’t “know Jesus” you had better look at a crucifix real fast! All the potlucks and socializing and fuzzy feelings will not ever get you to know him like contemplating his sacrifice.

I see what you are saying…

I understand, but I think they do follow what Christ teaches. Whenever they act like Christ, they are following what Christ teaches. I understand, though, what you are saying. They are denying His church. Not cool", as you say. And I think their tendency to tell others to deny and even see as evil, the CC, they are especially in error. Leading others away or keeping others from the Church that Christ founded is decidely not cool.

There is a lot of good in their churches, though, even though they believe some things that aren’t true and leave out some of the truth. Where they’re right, they’re right. We can’t deny that because we would be denying that the Christ’s Church also has it right.

I think there’s good in Protestant churches, and they do have some truths, but they’re missing other ones unfortunately

i can relate to this and everything else you say. You seem to be a kindred spirit…

i too began to know Jesus intimately when i got back into the Cathlic Church… after having been gone for SO SO long… and i was gone so long because i didn’t know the faith… wasn’t catechized as a child… that wasn’t completely my parents’ fault because they were not catechized either… not that i know of… one wasn’t even Catholic before marriage.

i don’t u/stand why the Church does not catechize its people well… a great mystery to me… it’s almost like most Catholcis are ashamed to admit they are Catholic, much less spread the faith… Even i, devout, out-spoken Cathlic that i am… have a problem sometimes… sharing what i know. I think, for one, we get tired of “going there” becaus we know Protestants are going to “pounce on us” as it were… so that’s un/standable but we Catholcis have GOT to evangelize, like the protestants do… That’s one thing i admire about them…

plus, protestants claims that Catholics can be cold… are totally warranted…

I have often felt i didn’t even want to be Catholic anymore because of the way some members of the Chrch treat other members…

but i could never leave the Eucharist (and other things: the moral, infallible, dogmas & doctrines of the Church…etc)

thanks for sharing that. I think that recently the Church has gone through a lot of attack and catechesis has weakened. Maybe we just need some time… and people who are willing to teach others the faith, or encourage them to read the Catechism or Catholic books. As for cold Catholics…honestly, I’ve met cold Catholics, cold Protestants, cold non Chrsitians, etc…and I’ve also met great people from each of these groups. I’m sorry you’ve been hurt by others at church :hug1:

God bless