Why do some Protestants slander us?

[AlegreFe]

As an example of Catholic extremism in calling Protestants idolators, I’ve seen Catholics in these forums argue that Protestants who believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist are guilty of idolatry. They contend that this is so because the orders of Protestant clergy are invalid and, therefore, it is impossible that the Real Presence of Christ is present in a Protestant Eucharist. That being the case (so this argument goes), these Protestants are guilty of idolatry because they worship mere bread and wine instead of the Body and Blood of Christ. So, there are nuts everywhere. We just need to ignore them and move on.

“Catholic extremism?”
I know you are only addressing this to those who have said this. But I myself don’t believe that Protestants want to worship an idol. If they want to believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ then I know that they would not WANT to worship an idol. But I could also say that any Protestant “host” is NOT the Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of Jesus Christ. Why? Because of the very reason that you stated in your post. The only ones that have the power by the Holy Spirit to change the bread & wine into the Body & Blood of Jesus Christ are validly ordained Catholic Priests. Sorry to break the news to you about that but it is a FACT.

So if any Protestants believe in the Real Presence you are more than welcome to come join the Catholic Church so that you too can receive Jesus Christ in Holy Communion.

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[AlegreFe]

deb, it’s that way all across the Bible Belt. I’ve had strangers come up to me off the street and tell me I worship the Whore of Babylon. Gee, if my grandfather were alive today he’d be telling me that at every visit! Doesn’t happen so much any more though. Actually that might be because I don’t wear my Catholic t-shirts two or three times a week anymore; they don’t really go with my work attire like they did with my jeans and flip flops in college!!! LOL!

My daughter has several Catholic T-shirts that she loves to wear!! I’m not a T-shirt person so I don’t wear ANY kind of T-Shirt. But my daughter loves her T-Shirts. :yup:

 

[rr1213]

“Catholic extremism?”
I know you are only addressing this to those who have said this. But I myself don’t believe that Protestants want to worship an idol. If they want to believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ then I know that they would not WANT to worship an idol. But I could also say that any Protestant “host” is NOT the Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of Jesus Christ. Why? Because of the very reason that you stated in your post. The only ones that have the power by the Holy Spirit to change the bread & wine into the Body & Blood of Jesus Christ are validly ordained Catholic Priests. Sorry to break the news to you about that but it is a FACT.

So if any Protestants believe in the Real Presence you are more than welcome to come join the Catholic Church so that you too can receive Jesus Christ in Holy Communion.

Oh yes, believe me, there is extremism coming from fringe elements on the Catholic side as well as the Protestant side. Neither community is immune to that. As far as the Real Presence, I know what the Catholic Church teaches about the Protestant Eucharist but, with all respect, consider the Church to be in error on that point.

 

[BOBKAT]

Hi,

As your resident born again christian/protestant, I defended the CC over the weekend. A stranger said you guys are not christians and I said Yes they are—they believe in Christ.

THANK YOU!!!

 

[bella5110]

“Catholic extremism?”
I know you are only addressing this to those who have said this. But I myself don’t believe that Protestants want to worship an idol. If they want to believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ then I know that they would not WANT to worship an idol. But I could also say that any Protestant “host” is NOT the Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of Jesus Christ. Why? Because of the very reason that you stated in your post. The only ones that have the power by the Holy Spirit to change the bread & wine into the Body & Blood of Jesus Christ are validly ordained Catholic Priests. Sorry to break the news to you about that but it is a FACT.

So if any Protestants believe in the Real Presence you are more than welcome to come join the Catholic Church so that you too can receive Jesus Christ in Holy Communion.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/EucharistLastSupper.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/EucharistJesussm.jpg

your pictures are quite beautiful.

 

[bella5110]

Yes, that worries me too. The worst people who attack the Church are former Catholics. Believe me, I know that from experience. My brother and my sister are both fallen away Catholics who are now Protestants and they HATE the Catholic Church.

My brother especially says that he does not want to associate with any Catholics because he “hates Catholics and what they believe in.” But he has no idea what we believe in and has no idea what the Catholic Church teaches because if he knew he would come back to the Catholic Church. He doesn’t even go to Church on Sundays. He hopped around to different churches and he can’t find one that totally believes what he believes so I guess he decided to be his own “pope.” He thinks watching J.Swaggart on the internet or TV is sufficient for his Sunday obligation.

I am telling you this so that you can pray for my brother. Please all you strong Catholics out there, please pray for my brother and pray for my sister and her two kids too.

I also have a brother-in-law who also fell away from the Church and is now Baptist. He has no idea what the Church teaches either. He said that the Church was corrupted. But if he believed that the Catholic Church was the Church that Jesus built but then it was corrupted, I don’t understand how he could think that. Doesn’t he know that after Jesus told Peter that he was Rock and on that Rock He would build His Church, he told him that the gates of Hell will never prevail? How could he think that the Church was corrupted? Are there any Baptists out there that can explain this to me? Maybe we can start another thread on this matter? Why do Baptists think the Church was corrupted. To me that means that at least you think that the Catholic Church was right at one point but then got it wrong. And if you think the Church was right at first how could you think that the gates of hell prevailed when Jesus said it would never happen?

There is already a thread started by me called “Baptists, can they change.”

 

[ALLFORHIM]

THANK YOU!!!

Your welcome:thumbsup:

 

[Steadfast]

This wouldn’t be anything like the problem it’s made out to be if people could distinguish between criticism and slander.

Example: Denial of the perpetual virginity of Mary or her immaculate conception around here usually will end with the one doing so being accused of bashing Mary and of disrespecting her.

 

[bella5110]

This wouldn’t be anything like the problem it’s made out to be if people could distinguish between criticism and slander.

Example: Denial of the perpetual virginity of Mary or her immaculate conception around here usually will end with the one doing so being accused of bashing Mary and of disrespecting her.

Umm…this is a Catholic website.

I love Our Blessed Mother.

 

[Steadfast]

Umm…this is a Catholic website.

I love Our Blessed Mother.

I love Mary too and esteem her above all women.

This was just an example. It’s not slander to disagree with Catholic doctrine about her anymore than it is slander to disagree with Sola Fide.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

This wouldn’t be anything like the problem it’s made out to be if people could distinguish between criticism and slander.

Example: Denial of the perpetual virginity of Mary or her immaculate conception around here usually will end with the one doing so being accused of bashing Mary and of disrespecting her.

Hi,
I agree and I will add that it is not so much criticism or slander. Let me explain—I hold my tongue or fingers(if you will) on many topics here on the forum. My beliefs are so different that by me stating them the catholics would really jump down my throat. I am not interested in fighting or debating that always turns ugly. I just stay quiet. Now, because I believe something different doesnt mean I am slandering the CC or criticizing them. All it means to me is that I am stating the truth as I believe it and that will sure to offend many. Same on the flip side. When catholics state a truth they believe it can come across as offensive to a protestant. It all depends on your tone. As we know, tone is difficult to tell over the internet.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hi,
I agree and I will add that it is not so much criticism or slander. Let me explain—I hold my tongue or fingers(if you will) on many topics here on the forum. My beliefs are so different that by me stating them the catholics would really jump down my throat. I am not interested in fighting or debating that always turns ugly. I just stay quiet. Now, because I believe something different doesnt mean I am slandering the CC or criticizing them. All it means to me is that I am stating the truth as I believe it and that will sure to offend many. Same on the flip side. When catholics state a truth they believe it can come across as offensive to a protestant. It all depends on your tone. As we know, tone is difficult to tell over the internet.

Kudos to you & Steadfast ​

 

[AlegreFe]

Yippee, I’ve hit the 200’!

How soon before I become a ‘senior’ member and a real cool dude

I don’t remember. I used to be labeled one until an anti-Catholic hacker hacked into CA Forums. Then I was gone for about 3½ months so now it will take me a while to be labeled “Senior Member” again. Oh well, that’s okay I’m a Forum Supporter!

 

[AlegreFe]

Oh yes, believe me, there is extremism coming from fringe elements on the Catholic side as well as the Protestant side. Neither community is immune to that. As far as the Real Presence, I know what the Catholic Church teaches about the Protestant Eucharist but, with all respect, consider the Church to be in error on that point.

I’m sorry to say but you are in error. The only ones that were with Jesus at the last supper were the Apostles. Those are the first bishops of the Church with Peter being the main one who is our first Pope. Jesus PRAYS the words of consecration that our Priests use. Jesus “sent” the Apostles and gave them the power by the Holy Spirit to change bread and wine into His body & blood. The Priest is standing “In Persona Christi.”

Please go to the Apologist forum and ask one of them and they can explain why only and ONLY a Catholic Priest can consecrate a host to change it to the Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of our Lord Jesus Chirst.

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the
blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take
and eat; this is my body.”
27 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to
them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be
shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
Mat 26:26-28

========================================

17 When it was evening, he came with the Twelve.

22 While they were eating, he took bread, said the
blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it;
this is my body.”
23 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them,
and they all drank from it.
24 He said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant,
which will be shed for many. Mark 14:17, 22-24

 

[AlegreFe]

Honestly (and this will cause offense but none intended) I believe that Catholics worship St. Joseph and tons of other Sainted Dead but I do NOT think that Catholics do it on purpose.
I think that the line between honour and worship is very thin and the RC Church has crossed it.
I do not think that this makes you a cult or “Whore of Babylon” however. You are baptised Christians as am I.
WP

We do NOT worship Saint Joseph or ANY Saint for that matter, including Mary. We only Honor them because God Himself has Honored them and they are in Heaven right now with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And why do Protestants keep saying that saints are dead? They are NOT dead. They are more ALIVE than you and I.

31 And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have
you not read what was said to you by God,
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the
God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead
but of the living." Mat 22:31-32

I believe the “line” between honor and worship is HUGE. I only WORSHIP God. I only give THANKS and GLORY to GOD! I only eat the Body & Blood of Jesus Christ! That is WORSHIP for us Catholics. We do NOT give thanks and glory to ANY Saints. And we certainly do NOT eat the body & blood of any saint. We only ask them to pray for us because they are right there with God.

16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray
for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent
prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.
Jas 5:16
Who is more righteous than a Saint already in Heaven with God? Certainly not any of us; although I do ask friends to pray for me. But even they know that a Saint’s prayer is more powerful.

I think you have to think twice on what WORSHIP means. There is only ONE person to whom I give Thanks and Glory. And that is God! My gratitude does not go to any Saints for my everlasting life. I might thank a saint for praying for me but that’s where my “thanks” ends. I know they are not responsible for my eternal life if I should end up in Heaven, God willing.

 

[sandmountainsli]

We do NOT worship Saint Joseph or ANY Saint for that matter, including Mary. We only Honor them because God Himself has Honored them and they are in Heaven right now with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And why do Protestants keep saying that saints are dead? They are NOT dead. They are more ALIVE than you and I.

31 And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have
you not read what was said to you by God,
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the
God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead
but of the living." Mat 22:31-32

I believe the “line” between honor and worship is HUGE. I only WORSHIP God. I only give THANKS and GLORY to GOD! I only eat the Body & Blood of Jesus Christ! That is WORSHIP for us Catholics. We do NOT give thanks and glory to ANY Saints. And we certainly do NOT eat the body & blood of any saint. We only ask them to pray for us because they are right there with God.

16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray
for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent
prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.
Jas 5:16
Who is more righteous than a Saint already in Heaven with God? Certainly not any of us; although I do ask friends to pray for me. But even they know that a Saint’s prayer is more powerful.

I think you have to think twice on what WORSHIP means. There is only ONE person to whom I give Thanks and Glory. And that is God! My gratitude does not go to any Saints for my everlasting life. I might thank a saint for praying for me but that’s where my “thanks” ends. I know they are not responsible for my eternal life if I should end up in Heaven, God willing.

Have Mercy!
I SAID that you didn’t do it on purpose.
What would you think of me if I started praying to John Wesley or Calvin? You would say I had gone mad.
WP

 

[AlegreFe]

edit: I should mention that not all Protestants have removed sacrifice from their “worship”. Therefore my comments above should be restricted to those Protestants who do.

No Protestant service has any kind of “Sacrifice” because they do not believe in the sacrifice that we have during our Holy Mass.

Now if they are Christians who sacrifice their own life by giving it over to the Father than I guess you can consider that a sacrifice but certainly not anything close to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ dying on the Cross. And they certianly don’t believe they can “re-sacrifice” our Lord. Even though that is NOT what Catholics do during the Holy Mass. We enter into that ONE & ONLY Sacrifice at Calvary and make it present; as it is always PRESENT to the Father. God transcends time so the sacrifice is always present to Him.

6 And between the throne and the four living creatures
and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though
it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes,
which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth Rev 5:6

 

[AlegreFe]

Have Mercy!
I SAID that you didn’t do it on purpose.

You didn’t read my post did you? I defined worship as in how Catholics Worship God and ONLY God. and I said that we only ask the saints to pray for us. That is what we call “praying to saints.” We ask them to pray for us when we “pray to saints.”

What would you think of me if I started praying to John Wesley or Calvin? You would say I had gone mad.
WP

Not at all. You could pray to John Wesley if you like and even to Calvin. I just hope they are up in Heaven if you do pray to them. Praying to a saint just means that we are asking them to pray for us. If you believe that Wesley or Calvin are in Heaven right now (or even in Purgatory) you can certainly pray to them to ask them to pray for you.

It seems you didn’t read Atreyu’s post either did you? You might have read it but it seems that you only read words and don’t read full context and you don’t seem to even want to understand what we mean by WORSHIP.

 

[sandmountainsli]

No Protestant service has any kind of “Sacrifice” because they do not believe in the sacrifice that we have during our Holy Mass.

Now if they are Christians who sacrifice their own life by giving it over to the Father than I guess you can consider that a sacrifice but certainly not anything close to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ dying on the Cross. And they certianly don’t believe they can “re-sacrifice” our Lord. Even though that is NOT what Catholics do during the Holy Mass. We enter into that ONE & ONLY Sacrifice at Calvary and make it present; as it is always PRESENT to the Father. God transcends time so the sacrifice is always present to Him.

6 And between the throne and the four living creatures
and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though
it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes,
which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth Rev 5:6

The Methodist have Holy Mystery Eucharist.
Christ is everymuch as present in our Eucharist as yours.
We just believe it to be in a purely Spiritual sense rather than think that we are eating his flesh and blood.
Christ exists INSIDE the elements in spiritual form.
WP

 

[AlegreFe]

your pictures are quite beautiful.

Thank you! :tiphat: