Why Do The Mormons Do It Better?

[valient_Lucy]

When I was a teenager (Mormon) the adults were lamenting that fewer than 20% of the youth in our congregation married in a temple.

Even if/when Mormon adults marry in a temple, only about a 1/3 of them remain “temple worthy”.

Didn’t know that. Were they married by the justice of the peace instead?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Didn’t know that. Were they married by the justice of the peace instead?

Most by a Mormon bishop at a non-church location…a back yard, a reception hall, someone’s house, etc.

 

[TheExorcist]

When I was a teenager (Mormon) the adults were lamenting that fewer than 20% of the youth in our congregation married in a temple.

Even if/when Mormon adults marry in a temple, only about a 1/3 of them remain “temple worthy”.

I wonder if that is why since I’ve joined the church (1994) it seems like every third talk/article is about temple marriage. Was it not stressed as much back then?

 

[valient_Lucy]

I wonder if that is why since I’ve joined the church (1994) it seems like every third talk/article is about temple marriage. Was it not stressed as much back then?

Good question. I was surprised by the low level of Temple Marriages, because my Mormon friend told me that marriage in the temple was a requirement for salvation.

 

[AmericanMuslim]

In many different countries, the more traditional elements of that society have larger families.

For example, in Israel the Jewish population growth is primarily in the traditionalist Sephardi (Arab Jews) families, not the more liberal Ashkenazi (European Jews). Gross generalization of course, but more babies are born in Hebron than Tel Aviv.

The traditional explanation is that more educated women have more opportunities to do things other than raise children. I’m not sure I completely accept that explanation, but certainly women who go on to college, grad school, etc. are delaying having children at least until their mid/late 20s.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I wonder if that is why since I’ve joined the church (1994) it seems like every third talk/article is about temple marriage. Was it not stressed as much back then?

It was stressed. Then (70s) you were either Mormon, adhering to everything exactly, or you weren’t. No new order Mormons then. Only Mormons, and jack Mormons.

 

[TheExorcist]

Good question. I was surprised by the low level of Temple Marriages, because my Mormon friend told me that marriage in the temple was a requirement for salvation.

Yes. that’s correct…well actually its correct if you want to reach the highest level of the highest kingdom. I didnt know about the different levels of the different kingdoms until a few years ago. They have to have some way of “helping” single members (mostly women) with no possibility of marriage.

 

[TheExorcist]

It was stressed. Then (70s) you were either Mormon, adhering to everything exactly, or you weren’t. No new order Mormons then. Only Mormons, and jack Mormons.

Did Jack Mormon = Son of Perdition back then?

:whacky:

 

[valient_Lucy]

Yes. that’s correct…well actually its correct if you want to reach the highest level of the highest kingdom. I didnt know about the different levels of the different kingdoms until a few years ago. They have to have some way of “helping” single members (mostly women) with no possibility of marriage.

So much craziness…

 

[TheExorcist]

So much craziness…

Yeah pretty much. As you (probably) know LDS doctrine is hard to pin down. No catechism, no canon of church law = no definitive statement of doctrine. I THOUGHT the LDS standard works could be relied on for doctrine but then I was lead to this talk and read number two. So who knows really for sure…

 

[BartBurk]

Well, for one thing they don’t have a Father Corapi type in their upper echelon – their leaders seem to be straight arrows.

 

[Inishfree]

In many different countries, the more traditional elements of that society have larger families.

For example, in Israel the Jewish population growth is primarily in the traditionalist Sephardi (Arab Jews) families, not the more liberal Ashkenazi (European Jews). Gross generalization of course, but more babies are born in Hebron than Tel Aviv.

The traditional explanation is that more educated women have more opportunities to do things other than raise children. I’m not sure I completely accept that explanation, but certainly women who go on to college, grad school, etc. are delaying having children at least until their mid/late 20s.

Excellent point, thanks for sharing. I agree. I think some women (myself included) want to obtain a college degree. I didn’t have my first child. Until, I was twenty seven years old. It has it’s plus side. I am still happily married to the father of my son. Twenty eight years and going strong.

 

[campeador]

Well, for one thing they don’t have a Father Corapi type in their upper echelon – their leaders seem to be straight arrows.

That seems back handed and mean spirited, my friend.

Did Fr. Corapi belong to the ‘upper echelon’ of Catholicism? When did he receive his Bishopric? His Cardinality? Was he living in the Vatican maybe?

 

[Stephen168]

Well, for one thing they don’t have a Father Corapi type in their upper echelon – their leaders seem to be straight arrows.

Yes, Mormons are better at making their leaders (past and present) seem like straight arrows. Not sure what a ‘Fr Corapi type’ is but I would not consider a priest as ‘upper echelon.’ In my few years of attending M.I.A, I’ve found Mormons are better at gossip, too.

 

[Pacos_Pete]

And I emphasize yet again, it’s based on their doctrine of the “Plan of salvation” and how a body is an absolute necessity in that plan and that there are spirit children of “Heavenly Father” who are still awaiting physical bodies in the pre-exsistance.

To understand Mormonism and their culture you MUST understand their doctrines, and that in and of itself can be a challenge.

Large LDS families find their genesis in the doctrines surrounding the doctrine of the "Plan of Salvation’

“there are spirits still waiting for a chance to come to earth and get their earthy bodies”

This is the best explanation as to why, I have read so for. You must believe in a pre-existence and a hereafter, otherwise why have children anyway?

I haven’t heard of another “Plan of Salvation,” expressed on CAF. Do we have bodies of flesh and bone in the pre-existence and if we are saved by grace alone why do we have to come to earth anyway?

If God our Father has a body of flesh and bone, doesn’t that make him human? If we don’t have a Mother in Heaven and belong to a family, then is the female of the species only here for our earthly enjoyment? Children being the side effect of that enjoyment only?

As far as wanting an higher education and being corporate executives, I know plenty of them. They still have families contribute to there community and church.

 

[Sariah]

Also, it can be traced to their dogma of how there are still spirits in the pre-existance waiting to come to earth, get their bodies, and continue on the “plan of salvation”.

^^This.

Mormons, especially the women, hear constantly about the “special spirits” in heaven waiting for their earthly bodies. It’s almost as though they use guilt when talking about families and childbearing, because don’tcha know we all made agreements with the other spirits in the pre-exisitence in regards to formation of earthly family and heaven forbid we leave someone behind up there.

Bah. Rubbish.

 

[Sariah]

This is the best explanation as to why, I have read so for. You must believe in a pre-existence and a hereafter, otherwise why have children anyway?

I haven’t heard of another “Plan of Salvation,” expressed on CAF. Do we have bodies of flesh and bone in the pre-existence and if we are saved by grace alone why do we have to come to earth anyway?

If God our Father has a body of flesh and bone, doesn’t that make him human? If we don’t have a Mother in Heaven and belong to a family, then is the female of the species only here for our earthly enjoyment? Children being the side effect of that enjoyment only?
.

According to LDS doctrine, we are spirits in the pre-existence, and must come to earth to receive bodies.

God is indeed a being of flesh and blood, though not necessarily human. He is a being that has progressed and obtained total perfection. He himself was created by someone/something.

We also do have a Mother in Heaven, many, in fact, as plural marriage is practiced in the Celestial Kingdom. Our leaders are hesitant to talk about our Mother in Heaven because it would be an “insult” to her (and her sister-Goddesses). We are admonished to NOT pray to our Mother in Heaven, and pretty much forbidden to really discuss her in depth.

For any armchair theologians who want to read an excellent book about the Mormon plan of salvation, check out this book by Matthew Brown: amazon.com/Plan-Salvation-Understanding-Divine-Destiny/dp/1598113461/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310140355&sr=1-2 It’s pretty dense in spots, but it’s the best explaination of this doctrine that I’ve run across - not over the top, not placating…

Cheers,

Sariah, Renegade Mormon

 

[Tony888]

God is indeed a being of flesh and blood, though not necessarily human. He is a being that has progressed and obtained total perfection. He himself was created by someone/something.

Sariah, Renegade Mormon

Sariah, please cite official doctrine that God was not always God and was created by someone else. I admit i’m a new mormon but I have never seen such doctrine.

From the Catholic perspective, the person of Jesus was God who subsequently added flesh and blood to his personhood… Don’t Catholics believe Jesus still has a body of flesh and bone?

The LDS believe God the Father experienced this same change of state.

 

[campeador]

Sariah, please cite official doctrine that God was not always God and was created by someone else. I admit i’m a new mormon but I have never seen such doctrine.

From the Catholic perspective, the person of Jesus was God who subsequently added flesh and blood to his personhood… Don’t Catholics believe Jesus still has a body of flesh and bone?

The LDS believe God the Father experienced this same change of state.

Is that what LDS believe? I thought god the father organized the intelligences, found the smartest, the most ‘perfectly perfect’ intelligence, ‘begot’ him as his firstborn into a spirit and allowed him to progress “from grace to grace” in His pre-mortal life, until he became “like unto God”.

At least that’s how Parker explained it to me.

 

[Stephen168]

From the Catholic perspective, the person of Jesus was God who subsequently added flesh and blood to his personhood.

And the Book of Mormon perspective
Mosiah 15:1-5:

And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
** And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.**