No RebeccaJ, you are off. God is at the center of LDS faith
I didn’t say family and marriage are not a Christian vocation. I said, LDS teachings are centered on family and marriage. To the point that it appears as worship. Also has a view that makes family and marriage a material attachment.
True, but marriage is simply not in the same class as the other sacraments.
Exactly. Catholicism isn’t family centered, it’s Eucharist centered.
When my Protestant mom watched the PBS Mormons series, she said, “So for Mormons, the family is their God.”
Jesus Christ is at the center of a Catholic marriage, marriage being a reflection of Christ’s relationship with His Bride, the Church.
Now be honest, you said Catholics worship God while LDS worship Family (to the exclusion of God), yet you have no evidence to back up your swipe at my faith.
There’s a flaw with this analogy. Mormons don’t only value the family because it gets them into the highest level of heaven. For Mormons, the family is heaven on earth, just as a Catholic believes that the Mass is heaven on earth. (If the family is Heaven on earth, I’d rather be in Hell.Ah semantics semantics“higher value” “higher value”
Jim values Mr. Attorney because he needs him to stay out of jail.
Bob values Mr. Attorney because he’s a fellow human being.
Which places a higher value on Mr. Attorney?
IMO marriage as a thing everyone must check off their “to-do list” devalues marriage.
) I heard one Mormon leader say that, for a Mormon, a Temple Marriage is the most holy religious ceremony imaginable. No Catholic would say the same thing about marriage.Yes, he should; it is a sacrament… I view my Marriage as holy and by extension my family as well. A Catholic would view all the sacraments as holy.
I said no such thing. Please don’t put words in my mouth. I said Mormons are centered on family, not on God. I said nothing about excluding God.
“Expressing values” in and through a family is required for a Mormon, to the point where Mormons don’t believe their values are being expressed fully unless they are married with a family. Marriage and family for Mormons are tied to eternal consequences. Marriage and family are not requirements for any Christian to express their belief and discipleship of Jesus Christ. The Catholic teaching on family is Biblical, while Mormons have exalted marriage, which does make it, a god.
Amen!
You’re entitled to your opinion.
That isn’t an opinion, it is Catholic teaching. Marriage is holy. A family is (or should be) a domestic church.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
I think you are fantasizing quite a bit on what LDS think - we view our children just like veryone else does.Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
As I came back into this thread and started to ponder this subject, that was exactly what popped into my head! To Mormons, what they see when they look at their whole family is that each individual is, in fact, a god ‘in the making’, on earth. They see very little difference between themselves and their “eternal father”, except in view of their position along that line of progression. Family is* required* for them to continue along that line. Anyone that does not marry and have as many children as possible, in this life, is seen as ‘unworthy’ of ‘godhood’. The more children you have, the higher your position will be in eternity. At least, that’s what seems to be their view of it from what I’ve seen stated in this thread, and elsewhere. The family does seem to be a competition of sorts. The bigger it is, here, the more *power *it will be given in eternity.
The big difference between the way Catholics value their family, and a Mormon values it, is because Mormons view members of their family as all progressing towards becoming demi-gods. Catholics see it as only one small part (not ‘required’, but still a holy part) of their progression toward being united in love with God (in the Holy Trinity) in Heaven, as His adopted children, forever. In terms of eternity, we see God as the Holy Center (the ‘Sacred Heart’) of the family of God, and we will all be united in His Love. The family of Mormons are each seen as individuals progressing towards an eternity spent as gods on some other world, or in some other universe, living their eternal lives in the same way that they live on earth. Their love is expressed in their attachments to each other in this world, that they believe will still continue on to the next, in the same way. So, to them, their “eternal father” is just another member of that eternal family (that has already progressed to become a god), like a father would be to any other family on earth. The really strange part to me, in all of this, is how they can visualize being a united ‘family’ in the next life, if they all end up being gods in separate universes.
That is a huge difference in terms of beliefs, and eternal goals, but I think that’s it in a nutshell.
Thank you. You said it better than I could.Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
As I came back into this thread and started to ponder this subject, that was exactly what popped into my head! To Mormons, what they see when they look at their whole family is that each individual is, in fact, a god ‘in the making’, on earth. They see very little difference between themselves and their “eternal father”, except in view of their position along that line of progression. Family is* required* for them to continue along that line. Anyone that does not marry and have as many children as possible, in this life, is seen as ‘unworthy’ of ‘godhood’. The more children you have, the higher your position will be in eternity. At least, that’s what seems to be their view of it from what I’ve seen stated in this thread, and elsewhere. The family does seem to be a competition of sorts. The bigger it is, here, the more *power *it will be given in eternity.
The big difference between the way Catholics value their family, and a Mormon values it, is because Mormons view members of their family as all progressing towards becoming demi-gods. Catholics see it as only one small part (not ‘required’, but still a holy part) of their progression toward being united in love with God (in the Holy Trinity) in Heaven, as His adopted children, forever. In terms of eternity, we see God as the Holy Center (the ‘Sacred Heart’) of the family of God, and we will all be united in His Love. The family of Mormons are each seen as individuals progressing towards an eternity spent as gods on some other world, or in some other universe, living their eternal lives in the same way that they live on earth. Their love is expressed in their attachments to each other in this world, that they believe will still continue on to the next, in the same way. So, to them, their “eternal father” is just another member of that eternal family (that has already progressed to become a god), like a father would be to any other family on earth. The really strange part to me, in all of this, is how they can visualize being a united ‘family’ in the next life, if they all end up being gods in separate universes.
That is a huge difference in terms of beliefs, and eternal goals, but I think that’s it in a nutshell.
You know, this sentence bugged me from the moment I read it, but I couldn’t explain why. I finally got it today.
I’m going to do what you usually do and ignore your reference to ‘par 460’, since we’ve already hashed that one out, ad infinitum. It’s pretty useless to beat that dead horse, anymore. Besides, you butchered the quote badly enough that it’s almost unrecognizable. It’s clear to me that you only see what you choose to see, no matter how many times we refute it, anyway. A certain person taking things out of context is what started all this in the first place.
I beg to differ with you on this one. The difference between those two examples that you’re comparing, is that Kathleen stated that St. Therése’s was a very good example of a devout Catholic family, which it truly was. Louis XIV’s family was very far from what most Catholics would ever consider to be truly ‘devout’ in any way, shape or form. I think ‘cafeteria Catholics’ are a very poor example to show what a devout Catholic family is all about, too. Just sayin’.
I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to beg to differ with you on this one. The difference between those two families that you’re comparing in your example is that Kathleen said that St. Thérese’s family was a good example of a devout Catholic family, and it most certainly is. Louis XIV’s family was anything but devout. Somehow, I don’t think that a very pathetic, dysfunctional family of ‘cafeteria Catholics’ makes for a very good example to anyone, at all. Sure, it shows that not all Catholics are perfect, but I really don’t think that was Kathleen’s intention in giving her example, anyway. I think she was just giving an example of a good Catholic family for comparison with good Mormon families. Just sayin’.
Valient Lucy,