Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
They did give us a rebate of $600.00. Did you forget that? Obama took it away. Look at your paycheck Federal withholding beginning 1/1/2010.
Was it ok for Obama to bail out GM which went bankrupt anyway?
- Status
Was it ok for Obama to bail out GM which went bankrupt anyway?
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
Opinion, not fact
F
fish90
Guest
Socialism is just not as efficient with helping the needy unlike the Church. With the Church, no bureaucracies get in way nor are funds used for bridges to nowhere.
S
Southern_Cross
Guest
Hi PlipPlop,
If I could just get back to the original question
I think the overly negative attitude towards socialism expressed on these forums comes mostly from Americans; this is understandable when one looks at America’s relationship to Communism vs. that of the rest of the “first world”.
Speaking from my own experience (i.e. The Australian and UK perspective) anti USSR propaganda coming from the government focused primarily on the military and political threat posed by totalitarian government.
American propaganda on the other hand focused upon the economic threat to the free market and private ownership of the means of production whilst associating totalitarianism with this threat.
Naturally most Americans today still do not have a clear understanding of what true socialism is. They do not understand that true socialism (according to Marx) was completely stateless, that the “socialism” practiced by the USSR more closely resembled Fascism than Socialism, or that Marxist socialism only represents one half of the coin,
The other half representing the socialism of Kropotkin, Malatesta or Goldman, one that opposed all forms of compulsory government, one that viewed Soviet Socialism as an abomination.
L
Lujack
Guest
Well, they should have. That’s why they shouldn’t be getting bonuses, because they were unable to see the crisis coming. That’s exactly what makes them incompetent.
S
Saint_Sebastian
Guest
Plipplop, Socialism is a very difficult mechanism to balance if not moderated by Catholic Doctrine as the effects can easily be manipulated by the false beliefs of men and women not committed to Social Justice and Charity. The Vatican defines a valid government as one that promotes charity toward it’s constituents. The problem of charity becomes evident when faith beliefs are not integrated into Socialism. Without authentic faith beliefs then who decides what is good for society? Leaving that decision in the hands of unbelievers or even worse atheists would create a society void of meaning and harmful to the intent of God for mankind.
M
Monty61
Guest
M
Monty61
Guest
Not true. Socialism does not allow personal ownership. Everything belongs to the “community” or state or whatever you want to call it. Wjy work more when the extra you make just gets confiscated by the IRS? When people figure out that they can live without working, or there is no incentive to work, they stop working. Look at France.Thanks Bay.
Lucy: if done properly, a socialist government would both provide for the less fortunate and give an incentive (as well as opportunities) to rise by personal means.
Even here (US), in some states you can make more than min. wage just by living on the dole and not working. In that case, why bust your butt in a min. wage job?
B
Bob_Crowley
Guest
I’ll just add one comment here. When I first became Christian, my first and most outstanding (and discouraging) pastor was a conservative. I’m pretty sure he was a member of what we call the National Party, which was once called the Country Party. When it was set up it was for the man on the land. But with the drift of people to the cities, due to urbanisation, it changed its name to the National Party.
He grew up on a small farm and so I suppose he had sympathy for farmers and pastoralists. He did tell me that he and another pastor jointly wrote the National Party policy on social welfare, a document which he said “stood for years”.
He was also inevitably scathing about communism, or at least how it had been instituted, with its cruelty and stupidity. He once said to me, “Country people are independent to their bootstraps.”
Yet he also commented to me in his office, “I sometimes think Marxist economics was God’s idea, given through a Jew, but the devil got hold of it first. ‘From every man according to ability; to every man according to need.’ It’s got an almost Biblical ring about it. But you’d never get the churches to approve it now.”
In other words, an economic philosophy that, at core, was supposed to ensure everybody had enough, in an age of industrialisation, was shafted not by its economic failings, but by the fact the radical Bolsheviks got hold of it. Then atheism became the fundamental religion, and anybody apposed to that was treated with extreme cruelty. Secondly because of their endless revolutionary ideals, the military was given far too much power and a huge share of the Soviet GDP, not helped by the Nazi brutality in Russia, which meant their defensive thinking became deeply entrenched.
Had a much more moderate group eg. the Mensheviks, obtained power, I think the results would have been very different. After all, as Christians, we are supposed to help and look after each other.
I think a similar comment would apply to the Reformation. God would have wanted His church cleaned up, and I also think Luther was the man chosen to get across justification by faith. But I think the devil got hold of that also.
Instead of becoming a martyr like his supposed Master, and so many others, including 11 of the 12 disciples, Luther took refuge with two ratbag German princes. From that time on, the entire thing became politicised, and instead of internal reformation proceeding from the blood of Martin Luther, Europe was torn asunder by war and millions of other martyrs died instead, with the spectacle, no doubt very satisfying to Satan, of Christian murdering Christian all over Europe, and the division of the church with immense violence.
We seem to think God’s plans can’t be frustrated. I think they can, and are.
My own personal viewpoint is that Marxist ECONOMICS was God’s idea, but the devil got hold of it first.
I also think the economic cycles that Marx predicted are getting shorter and shorter, and we’re heading for one almighty economic collapse. All you have to do is look at the immense levels of debt, at all levels - government, private and business, and inflation. When I was about twenty, houses were about $15,000 each. Thirty years on, the same house would cost about $500,000.
In summary, if the old (very conservative) pastor was correct, Marxist economics was God’s idea, given through a Jew (just as for example Newton and Einstein are the Jewish lynch pins of scientific theory), but the devil got hold of it first, and twisted it to his own ends.
B
Brendan
Guest
How about the executives that worked in other divisions. Should they have to give up the bonuses they earned if they managed their business units correctly?
Or how about an executive that had little to do with the monetary side of the business, say Director of Human Resoruces. If that person exceeded the goals set out by their contract, should they not get the bonus?
S
sidbrown
Guest
Bonuses of one million dollars are way too much if the company is going bankrupt and has to be bailed out by the starving taxpayer. Where is the bonus for the starving families that have lost their homes to foreclosure? Why give all this taxpayer money to the fatcats who have so much money that they don’t know what to do with it?
B
Brendan
Guest
Well, we can look at AIG’s Life Insurance business unit. That business unit did not bring about any foreclosures. That business unit made a profit on selling life insurance policies, and therefore was funded by paid insurance premiums.
Therefore, any bonuses paid to those executives would not have been taxpayer dollars. So why would anyone care.
Instead, since the bailout involved the government taking an equity stake in the company, it then becomes critical for AIG to make a profit and thus increase the equity stake that the taxpayers own. Thus it is then in the taxpayers interest to incent the profitable business units to retain or increase profitability. That is the very heart of the corporate bouns structure.
If you make or exceed your quota, you get a bonus. We (as taxpayers) want the AIG Life Insurance business to make or exceed quota, and thus make our equity stake valuable.
If not, what would prevent those executives from taking roles at competitor firms? They, unlike the morons in the derivitives insurance group, still have a good resume to offer.
So our choice then becomes, do we want to have the executives in AIG that make a profit, and thus allow the taxpayers to recover their bailout investment to remain at AIG and earn profit. Or do we want them to go to competitors and thus reduce AIG’s porfolio to a point where our investment is worthless.
If there is an exec who is bringing in 50 mil of business and AIG wants to pay him\her 1 mill commission or bonus, that is 49 mil of taxpayer benefit. We could have that person continue to work for AIG, or go to a competitor, and lose that business.
As a taxpayer, I know which one I would like to see!
S
sidbrown
Guest
What the starving taxpayer wants is fairness and not to have to pay to bailout a company that’s giving million dollar bonuses to incompetent executives. I know several starving people that would be only so happy to accept a bonus of one tenth of what these incompetent fatcats are given.
F
fish90
Guest
Are you upset that bailed-out companies get large bonuses or that such large bonuses exist?
T
tjm190
Guest
Fun fact- When someone describes people as incompetent, fails that descriptor, and then keeps doing it, it suggests that said person is incompetent.
B
Brendan
Guest
Do you know what the derivitaves insurance group did? It offered insurance in case stocks the stock market dropped.
Do you know who bought that insurance. Pension plans, 401(k)'s etc…
So without the bailout, millions would have lost their pensions because AIG could not pay out on the insurance claim.
The pension losses were bad enough, and all I am hearing from you is
- That those pensions and 401(k)'s should not have been bailed out and the people left to hang with no means.
- That those who are bringing in the profits necessary to pay back the government should not recievce commisions or bonuses, and thus be incended to leave the company. Thus not having the taxpayer back.
F
fish90
Guest
Something HUGE is coming.
usdebtclock.org
The problem with your statement is there are a myriad of reasons for such inflation. Lessening of loan down payments, bad political moves, and the Fed all may have contributed to the economics of America and the world.
J
jpk1313
Guest
America needs to start imitating its more perfect neighbor to the north. Canada is america done right. We have a capitlist economy and social health care. If a homeless person and a millianare both need medical care they both get the same care. Our govenment looks after the people to the best of its ability while in america it only looks after the wealthy. Welfare is not wrong it is a tool used to help people to stand on their own feet. unless you are on disablity you are expected to find work and the amount of money given is just enough to keep you from starving to death. The problem with america is that it just does not care about the poor. it treats them like scum and are looked down on. when this is brought up that the poor need help you always get the “they should pull themselves up by their boot straps” have you ever tried it? it is a physical impossablity. America needs to stop being so self centered and start acting like human beings that have some measure of decency. The world hates america not becuse of its freedom (which it abuses) but becuse it is full of self-centered jerks who use and abuse its people and the people of the world. Canada is america done right-we look after the health of our citizens, we have lower gun related crime, we never had slavery, we never commited genocide on the natives (we just turned them into generatial alcoholics) our army is a peace keeping force and not the tool of warmongers (and we still beat america in war games on a regular basis even though we have less funding) oh and my favorite peace of american history on August 24, 1814 Canada burned down the white house. Canada is a much better place to live than america and you americans need to get your act togeather and start acting like the civilised country you claim to be.
D
dmelosi
Guest
I am not sure where you are getting your information from, and not sure if I can take such a post seriously it is so far out there.
B
Brendan
Guest
Nope, the millionaire hops on a jet to the States to avoid the lines.
I live in a border town and there is a pretty sizable medical trade here in the US for those who are willing to pay cash for the medical care they cannot get in Canada, at least without a long wait.
MRI’s and Oncology (cancer treatment) are the two biggest.
- Status