Why do you hate Islam?

[dolphinlove]

Here’s what I know: muslims don’t promote secularism, muslims believe in keeping religion parrt of society, and muslim women don’t force me to “guard my eyes” every time I go out in public. Muslims don’t practice fornication. Muslims who get married have large families.

In other words, from what I’ve seen, muslims are better Catholics than most catholics.

Oh you want to know about muslim marriage, here ill give you the lowdown.

1. a husband can take up to 4 wives at once, they practise polygamy, its part of their teachings.
2. a husband/wife can get a divorce anytime they want to, all they have to do is say it 3 times and the divorce is final.
3. Whilst married, a man can also have sex with his servants, giving him as many women he wants to have sex with while he is married.

Do you think islam’s law on marriage is so great now?
and they do practise fornication, for they are allowed to have sex with their slaves, who they are NOT married too.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Oh you want to know about muslim marriage, here ill give you the lowdown.

1. a husband can take up to 4 wives at once, they practise polygamy, its part of their teachings.
2. a husband/wife can get a divorce anytime they want to, all they have to do is say it 3 times and the divorce is final.
3. Whilst married, a man can also have sex with his servants, giving him as many women he wants to have sex with while he is married.

Do you think islam’s law on marriage is so great now?
and they do practise fornication, for they are allowed to have sex with their slaves, who they are NOT married too.

None of the muslims I know have slaves, and none of the married muslim men i know have sex with anyone other than their one wife.

I’m not comparing ideals or extremes, or someone on youtube. I’m talking about the people I encounter in my life, in my work and my neighbourhood. The muslim women around here don’t wear burkhas, they just have a nice scarf and dress modestly. The men don’t own slaves, they are good family men and they seem devout and holy.

 

[dolphinlove]

None of the muslims I know have slaves, and none of the married muslim men i know have sex with anyone other than their one wife.

I’m not comparing ideals or extremes, or someone on youtube. I’m talking about the people I encounter in my life, in my work and my neighbourhood. The muslim women around here don’t wear burkhas, they just have a nice scarf and dress modestly. The men don’t own slaves, they are good family men and they seem devout and holy.

ok then, its time for me to show you the hadiths and quran where it says these things, the things that muslims are actually taught.
The Qur’an:

Qur’an (33:50) - “O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee” This is a special command that Muhammad handed down to himself, allowing himself virtually unlimited sex. Others are limited to four wives, but may also have sex with an unlimited number of slaves, as the following verse make clear:

lso have sex with an unlimited number of slaves, as the following verse make clear:

Qur’an (23:5-6) - “…who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess…” This verse allows the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves.

Read these sura’s straight out of the quran, this is what they believe, if you like, i can give you plenty more where this came from.

 

[tomarin]

ok then, its time for me to show you the hadiths and quran where it says these things, the things that muslims are actually taught.
The Qur’an:

Does the fact that probably every Muslim country on earth has outlawed slavery make a difference to you?

 

[katy_kt]

dolphinlove, Neil Anthony is talking about Muslims and you are talking about Islam. What he said is true, the average Muslim in America doesn’t practice the things that Islam permits. Many Muslims in America hold values that are lacking in many Christian families - modesty, family etc. As Christians we are required to be modest, and family and marriage are supposed to be blessings, but unfortunately in western society its at a decline.

 

[dolphinlove]

Does the fact that probably every Muslim country on earth has outlawed slavery make a difference to you?

does the fact its part of their teachings mean anything to you?
And i suggest you read about the Sudan.

 

[dolphinlove]

dolphinlove, Neil Anthony is talking about Muslims and you are talking about Islam. What he said is true, the average Muslim in America doesn’t practice the things that Islam permits. Many Muslims in America hold values that are lacking in many Christian families - modesty, family etc. As Christians we are required to be modest, and family and marriage are supposed to be blessings, but unfortunately in western society its at a decline.

You can not deny the fact of what islam teaches though, in sharia countries, there are cases of men with more than 4 wives, having sex with slaves etc etc.
Why do people bury their heads under the carpet when it comes to islam? Im pointing out facts, not same made up rubbish from youtube.
Yes, it would be nice if we did live by what Jesus taught, im all for that, but why should i listen to him rubbishing the west and Christians, not all of us run around in bikinis, there are many of us who do follow what Jesus taught us.
The reason muslims in America follow the law is because bigomy is against the law, they will be arrested if they had more than one wife.

 

[tomarin]

does the fact its part of their teachings mean anything to you?

No. Since slavery is universally outlawed, I think it’s a non-issue.

 

[tomarin]

Yes, it would be nice if we did live by what Jesus taught, im all for that, but why should i listen to him rubbishing the west and Christians, not all of us run around in bikinis, there are many of us who do follow what Jesus taught us.

Such as love thy enemy, right?

The reason muslims in America follow the law is because bigomy is against the law, they will be arrested if they had more than one wife.

I’ve never met a Muslim who had more than one wife, here or overseas (including in the Muslim countries I’ve visited). My understanding is that this is realistic only for wealthy men. In any event, it doesn’t seem to be typical of Muslims.

 

[dolphinlove]

No. Since slavery is universally outlawed, I think it’s a non-issue.

wrong it is an issue, its in the quran and hadiths, it is part of their teaching, which makes it an issue. Do you think its ok for a religion to chop and change what they are initially taught?
This** IS **a teaching in the quran, and the quran to a muslim is perfect, you cant deny these facts.
So to a muslim, slavery is ok, and in sharia law, its allowed. Like it or not, that is how it is.
You can bury your head in the sand all you want, but it is a teaching of islam, plain and simple.

 

[dolphinlove]

Such as love thy enemy, right?

Yes i do love my enemy, you find a statement anywhere on this forum of me saying i hate muslims. its the religion i dont like,not the people influenced by it.

I’ve never met a Muslim who had more than one wife, here or overseas (including in the Muslim countries I’ve visited). My understanding is that this is realistic only for wealthy men. In any event, it doesn’t seem to be typical of Muslims.

want more proof it does happen in this world?
I will gladly find you cases of where men have more than one wife, its easy!

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Yes i do love my enemy, you find a statement anywhere on this forum of me saying i hate muslims. its the religion i dont like,not the people influenced by it.

Oh… that explains it… we were talking past each other… oops!

I don’t really like “Islam” the belief system, i just think a lot of its people are good people

 

[katy_kt]

You can not deny the fact of what islam teaches though, in sharia countries, there are cases of men with more than 4 wives, having sex with slaves etc etc.
Why do people bury their heads under the carpet when it comes to islam? Im pointing out facts, not same made up rubbish from youtube.

I am not denying that Islam has such teachings.

Yes, it would be nice if we did live by what Jesus taught, im all for that, but why should i listen to him rubbishing the west and Christians, not all of us run around in bikinis, there are many of us who do follow what Jesus taught us.

Who was ‘rubbishing’ the west and Christians? I haven’t read from the beginning and hoping to avoid reading all the posts

The reason muslims in America follow the law is because bigomy is against the law, they will be arrested if they had more than one wife.

There are many Muslims who wouldn’t practice it, mainly because they are influence by monogamy. Some, even though they defend the teaching, do not like it.

 

[dolphinlove]

Oh… that explains it… we were talking past each other… oops!

I don’t really like “Islam” the belief system, i just think a lot of its people are good people

yes, im talking about the belief system, its my duty to show people what it really is so they get influenced under the spell of it and think it is good.
Yes, i wont deny there are good muslims, who are peaceful, but the whole islam system is not.

 

[sedonaman]

There are no contradictions in the Quran.

Then why did Muslim “scholars” have to invent abrogation?

 

[tomarin]

Yes i do love my enemy, you find a statement anywhere on this forum of me saying i hate muslims. its the religion i dont like,not the people influenced by it.

I’ll take your word for it. But assuming the worst about people who are different from you isn’t a charitable way to treat them.

want more proof it does happen in this world?
I will gladly find you cases of where men have more than one wife, its easy!

I never said it didn’t happen, I said it seems atypical, even in Muslim countries.

 

[dolphinlove]

I am not denying that Islam has such teachings.

glad to hear it

Who was ‘rubbishing’ the west and Christians? I haven’t read from the beginning and hoping to avoid reading all the posts

maybe i used the wrong word, but Anthony was saying he wished more western ppl and Christians were like muslims, i got offended by that, because there are many good Christians out there who are modest and do follow what Jesus taught.

There are many Muslims who wouldn’t practice it, mainly because they are influence by monogamy. Some, even though they defend the teaching, do not like it.

Of course it is their job to defend it, its in their teachings, as it is my job to defend Jesus and his teachings. Which brings up the point, there is nothing that Jesus taught us i do not dislike, why do muslim continue to stay in a religion where they do not like some of the teachings?

 

[tomarin]

yes, im talking about the belief system, its my duty to show people what it really is so they get influenced under the spell of it and think it is good.
Yes, i wont deny there are good muslims, who are peaceful, but the whole islam system is not.

Neil made a list of reasons why he doesn’t hate Muslims. Don’t you think some of those reasons are because of “the Islam system”?

 

[dolphinlove]

I’ll take your word for it. But assuming the worst about people who are different from you isn’t a charitable way to treat them.

again, point out to me that i said the muslims are the things on earth…
I will again say this, i am going on what the quran and the hadiths teach, the stuff im bringing up IS in the quran and hadiths, it is still taught today. So no matter what you say or what you think, it will always be a teaching in their religion, it will always be a part of their belief system and it will always be practised while there is sharia law on this earth.

I never said it didn’t happen, I said it seems atypical, even in Muslim countries.

It happens, and it happens more than you give it credit for, there is even 50 year old men marrying children in single digits, are you going to deny that still happens as well?
Tomarin, as we have said all along, this is the teachings of islam, its in their books, its their teachings, in black and white. Nothing can change these facts.

 

[katy_kt]

maybe i used the wrong word, but Anthony was saying he wished more western ppl and Christians were like muslims, i got offended by that, because there are many good Christians out there who are modest and do follow what Jesus taught.

He was pointing at the lack of Christian values in western society. I am sure Anthony did not intend to offend the good Christians here, especially because I believe he is one of them