Why do you hate Islam?

[pjk123]

There is no different meaning for koranic verses according to salafi(wahaabi) tradition ,which countires like saudi arabia follows.incidently ,this sect is what is called as the main sponsors of Islamic Fundamentalism.

 

[planten]

For Planten who does not yet know who Christ the Lord really is…From Christ’s own mouth…

John10
10 And Jesus walked about in the temple area on the Portico of Solomon.
24
So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long are you going to keep us in suspense? **If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” **
25
Jesus answered them, "I told you and you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify to me.
26
But you do not believe, because you are not among my sheep.
27
My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand.
29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand.
30
The Father and I are one.
31
The Jews again picked up rocks to stone him.
32
Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of these are you trying to stone me?”
33
The Jews answered him, “We are not stoning you for a good work but for blasphemy. You, a man, are making yourself God.”
34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?
35
If it calls them gods to whom the word of God came, and scripture cannot be set aside,
36
can you say that the one whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world blasphemes because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
37
If I do not perform my Father’s works, do not believe me;
38
but if I perform them, even if you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may realize (and understand) that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
39
(Then) they tried again to arrest him; but he escaped from their power.
40
He went back across the Jordan to the place where John first baptized, and there he remained.
41
Many came to him and said, “John performed no sign, but everything John said about this man was true.”
42
And many there began to believe in him.

**slyboots, I believe every word that you have presented. they are good words pf Jesus and explain some dialogue with the disbelieving Jewish elders.

perhaps you take literal meaning of few things here like the “father and I are one.” :" father is in me and I in father".

These aer symbolic words having higher meaning. But I do not challenge you about them. First i am to tell you that I agree with those verses very much. No doubt at all and I love everything that is from Jesus.

Now I ask you about a few lines in the bible where jesus was busy with his followers and his brothers and mother came to see him.

Please tell me were those brothers of Jesus or not? Thanks. I mean will you take that word as literal brother or you will try to change the meaning there??**

 

[planten]

“It would be useless to quote passages of Scripture against those who do not accept this authority.” – Thomas Aquinas, Reasons for the Faith Against Muslim Objections.

That is why we should use what Muslims do accept. It also helps keep the thread on-topic.

**sedonaman, I accept the bibleNT and bibleOT as authority as I accept the Quran as authority. What about you? Do you accept anything of the Quran?? Please tell.

I had accepted the good words that slyboots had posted. What else do you want please? Now you come to the Quran and tell me: Do you accept anything, any part of the Quran? Then we will know who is better off.**

 

[StevieD]

Since Christians do not accept that the Angel Gabriel appeared to Mahomed at all, there are only a few alternative explanations for it the koran.

1. That Md. was sincere but imagined his visions ( i.e.he suffered from a mental illness)
2. That his visions were genuine but Satanic in origin.
3. That he set out to create a religion with himself at the head and invented the Koran for this purpose so that he could amass wealth and marry as many woman as he wished, a concession allowed to Md alone of all Muslims!. (Like Joseph Smith Jr founder of the Mormons)

Or elements from more than one of the above.

Obviously there had to be many truths and things that would appeal to potential adherents contained in the koran or no-one would have followed Md.

I can’t think of any other possibilities but it doesn’t really matter which one is the truth (though I favour number 3).

Muslims claim that, although they believe in the NT and OT, they also say that they are corrupted which provides the perfect excuse to believe only those things that appear to align to a Muslim viewpoint. (The Mormons take a similar line to Scripture)

 

[BobCatholic]

If I would like to know whether a religion is true or false, I should not depend on my emotions, feelings, or traditions. Rather, I should depend on my reason and intellect.

Islam is relativistic. It has no authority to judge that someone has went off the deep end and no longer holds to their religion.

Examples:
Who in Islam has declared Osama Bin Laden to be Kafir? Please show me the fatwa(s).

After 9/11 and the palestinians were dancing in the streets for joy, who in Islam issued a fatwa declaring that haram?

Why does Islam approve of lying to non-muslims? If someone speaks to me about Islam, I have no idea if they’re telling me the truth. If they practice their faith, they must lie to me. If they don’t practice their faith they won’t evangelize properly.

Islam is like protestantism - a religion broken into many tiny pieces (fighting amongst itself) while claiming to be whole.

 

[elwill]

Since Christians do not accept that the Angel Gabriel appeared to Mahomed at all, there are only a few alternative explanations for it the koran.

1. That Md. was sincere but imagined his visions ( i.e.he suffered from a mental illness)

so can i have more information about this mental illness , or is it undiscovered yet ?
anyway , what about if paul suffered such illness in his vision ?

1. That his visions were genuine but Satanic in origin.

i can’t bear such idea because we actually seek refuge from God against satan before reading any chapter from quran , beside i can’t believe that satan will command me to do rigthious deeds nor can i accept that satan will warn me from himself or curse himself in quran

it dosn’t matter if you believe in islam or not and dosn;t matter if you respect islam or not , but thinking about the entire teaching of islam to be satanic teaching proof something for me .
whether you completely ignorant about islam and his prophet or that you are arrogant person ( no offenses)

1. That he set out to create a religion with himself at the head and invented the Koran for this purpose so that he could amass wealth and marry as many woman as he wished, a concession allowed to Md alone of all Muslims!. (Like Joseph Smith Jr founder of the Mormons)

are you wanna to say that it was impossible in his society to marry any number of women as he wished , so that he need to make something up
i think that i will incline to think that you lake some of knowledge because actually islam came to limit the marriage into 4 , before islam it was unlimited number of women the person can have

I can’t think of any other possibilities but it doesn’t really matter which one is the truth (though I favour number 3).

you are right , it dosn’t really matter with you which one is the truth because all of them are merely silly allegations
but it’s good that you allready decided to deny him regardless of the truth because you don’t seek it as i suggest

Muslims claim that, although they believe in the NT and OT, they also say that they are corrupted which provides the perfect excuse to believe only those things that appear to align to a Muslim viewpoint. (The Mormons take a similar line to Scripture)

corruption of the bible isn’t beliefs of muslims only , it’s the beliefs of many scholars and priests whom knows the history of the church and studying the bible deeply in it’s early languge

anyway , i think that christians themselfs do the same with bible , they provides the perfect excuse to believe only those things that appear to align to thier viewpoint

 

[BobCatholic]

it’s the beliefs of many scholars and priests whom knows the history of the church and studying the bible deeply in it’s early languge

Why not read the original copy of the Bible? Oh wait, it doesn’t exist.

How about the oldest existing copies? Oh wait, only the Catholic Church and the Orthodox have that

 

[sedonaman]

**
…

Now I ask you about a few lines in the bible where jesus was busy with his followers and his brothers and mother came to see him.

…**

The topic is Islam, not Jesus, not Christianity. Stop changing the subject.

 

[MDK]

This is an awful thread! Why do you hate Muslims. I think it should be changed to “Why do you hate anyone that is not Catholic.” It makes it sound like anyone who is not Catholic is scum on the bottom of one’s shoe and is not even treated like a human being. The need to be burn and scrubbed til they are bleeding then be baptized Catholic…

This is nothing more than a slanderous statement based not only on ignorance of Catholicism, but just plain poor reading of this thread. The concern or “hatred” is for false teaching misleading people, and thereby leading them away from God, when they are fooled into thinking that they are learning God. To accuse of hating the individual is false and just really slanderous against those who have properly hated the “sin” (false teaching) due to loving the sinner (adherent to the false faith system). So, in truth, it’s the opposite of human scum. The scum is the false teaching. The reason that we think false teaching is scum, is because it misleads God’s children, of whom Muslims belong to this family of God’s children. Islam makes knowing God more difficult for God’s children, due to false teachings. One must know the truth, to be able to identify falsehoods. If one only knows the falsehoods, then one will not be able to identify what is true, and what is false. This is the problem with Islam, as it disables one from knowing the fullness of revealed truth, and therefore God’s children who are adherents to Islam will not know whether what they’re taught is true or false. How can that be good? It is not. How can love for God’s children be misconstrued as hatred? It ought not to.

 

[StevieD]

so can i have more information about this mental illness , or is it undiscovered yet ?
anyway , what about if paul suffered such illness in his vision ?

i can’t bear such idea because we actually seek refuge from God against satan before reading any chapter from quran , beside i can’t believe that satan will command me to do rigthious deeds nor can i accept that satan will warn me from himself or curse himself in quran

it dosn’t matter if you believe in islam or not and dosn;t matter if you respect islam or not , but thinking about the entire teaching of islam to be satanic teaching proof something for me .
whether you completely ignorant about islam and his prophet or that you are arrogant person ( no offenses)

are you wanna to say that it was impossible in his society to marry any number of women as he wished , so that he need to make something up
i think that i will incline to think that you lake some of knowledge because actually islam came to limit the marriage into 4 , before islam it was unlimited number of women the person can have

you are right , it dosn’t really matter with you which one is the truth because all of them are merely silly allegations
but it’s good that you allready decided to deny him regardless of the truth because you don’t seek it as i suggest

corruption of the bible isn’t beliefs of muslims only , it’s the beliefs of many scholars and priests whom knows the history of the church and studying the bible deeply in it’s early languge

anyway , i think that christians themselfs do the same with bible , they provides the perfect excuse to believe only those things that appear to align to thier viewpoint

Ignorant and arrogant but you mean no offence?? There is an eminent Danish scholar who appears to have proved that the koran has been corrupted. He has been threatened with death and is in hiding (naturally!). Goodbye friend. Keep that mind open now, won’t you!!

 

[MDK]

** Now I ask you about a few lines in the bible where jesus was busy with his followers and his brothers and mother came to see him.

Please tell me were those brothers of Jesus or not? Thanks. I mean will you take that word as literal brother or you will try to change the meaning there??**

To interpret them as literal blood brothers is to already change the meaning of Scriptures. From the time it was written, it never meant blood brothers or sisters. It meant close relations.

In case you don’t know, Catholics wrote the NT with the inspiration of God. These same people taught that Jesus had no blood brothers or sisters. So, we know from the Apostles and those who learned from them, and from the direction of God, that there were no blood brothers or sisters of Jesus. The term was used for close relation. If you added up all the places in Scripture where Jesus is supposed to have “blood brothers or sisters”, then there would be over eighty. Do you think that Mary had eighty children during 33 years? There is no mention of other births by Mary, is there?

 

[planten]

so can i have more information about this mental illness , or is it undiscovered yet ?
anyway , what about if paul suffered such illness in his vision ?

i can’t bear such idea because we actually seek refuge from God against satan before reading any chapter from quran , beside i can’t believe that satan will command me to do rigthious deeds nor can i accept that satan will warn me from himself or curse himself in quran

it dosn’t matter if you believe in islam or not and dosn;t matter if you respect islam or not , but thinking about the entire teaching of islam to be satanic teaching proof something for me .
whether you completely ignorant about islam and his prophet or that you are arrogant person ( no offenses)

are you wanna to say that it was impossible in his society to marry any number of women as he wished , so that he need to make something up
i think that i will incline to think that you lake some of knowledge because actually islam came to limit the marriage into 4 , before islam it was unlimited number of women the person can have

you are right , it dosn’t really matter with you which one is the truth because all of them are merely silly allegations
but it’s good that you allready decided to deny him regardless of the truth because you don’t seek it as i suggest

corruption of the bible isn’t beliefs of muslims only , it’s the beliefs of many scholars and priests whom knows the history of the church and studying the bible deeply in it’s early languge

anyway , i think that christians themselfs do the same with bible , they provides the perfect excuse to believe only those things that appear to align to thier viewpoint

elwill, thank you very much. You have given perfectly good and correct reply to each point of StieveD. Excellent post. May Allah bless you.

 

[planten]

Ignorant and arrogant but you mean no offence?? There is an eminent Danish scholar who appears to have proved that the koran has been corrupted. He has been threatened with death and is in hiding (naturally!). Goodbye friend. Keep that mind open now, won’t you!!

**StevieD, that was a pefectly good and honest reply by elwill to your awkward confused post. You understood everything and called lwill ignorant and arrogant. You could not take or digest what he said. I admire elwill greatly for the honest reply to your post point by point.

Next time you write anything about Muhammad or Islam then be more careful in your accusations and selection of words. Other wise your foul argumnets will be rebutted soon.

You said that Muhammad had some false vision. Can we Muslims not say that paul that was Saul had a false vision and saul made up a false story to have seen Jesus.

How come when he had never seen Jesus in life time, How come he became the greatest disciple of Jesus. You people have been hoodwinked by saul of tarsus. Please remain calm because you had accused our prophet with falsehood. So we have done the same thing to your made up messenger i.e. saul.

I liked that good point from elwil about Saul of Tarsus.**

 

[planten]

The topic is Islam, not Jesus, not Christianity. Stop changing the subject.

** sedonaman, slyboots was trying to teach me something from the pages of the bibleNT. I wanted some explanation from slyboots honestly. You found yourself incompetent to give any reply to my question.

thank God MDK has tried to reply. I am looking into that reply soon. sedonaman you tried to get rid of the problem by keeping the subject. What subject? You failed to help**.

 

[sedonaman]

**
…
sedonaman you tried to get rid of the problem by keeping the subject. What subject?**.

What subject? It’s at the top of every post right after the “Re:” I’m sure you can find it. Just look for it.

 

[GraceDK]

… actually islam came to limit the marriage into 4 , before islam it was unlimited number of women the person can have

Wow… thats like… so charitable of Muhammad… very mercyful, impressive … so he married only… no it wasn’t four… it was more and he raped a little girl… but he was making something new so its okay… RUBBISH. End the rubbish and reclaim your humanity and dignity as a person of conscience and rational thinking.

Your logic goes like this: Something is 90 percent sick in the head… someone comes and makes it only 50 percent sick in the head… and that person you want to follow? Why not choose the one who makes things right… one who dispells slavery instead of giving it another name. Someone who calls people out of fornication and polygamy instead of calling it by some other name … and yes, Muhammad lived in extreme sexual impurity.
Jesus is the one who is good…
You on the other hand are so afraid of your own scriptures… you cannot bear to look at the life of Muhammad… Its because you have a heart. Its dying but its not too late, if you want to save it.

Your arguments are so low and so… I cannot even begin to explain how they apall me… like on the other thread where you said: “yes Muhammad slept with a 9-year old, so what?”

Exaclty that. You have to dehumanise yourself in order to follow a religion like that.
Islam is what Muhammad said and did. Its tragic… rather than repudiate the evil action of one evil man who called himself a prophet, you want people to continue living in slavery.
How much fear must be in your life.

 

[slyboots]

Planten,
earlier you asked for scripture showing where Jesus declared Himself God or the Messiah. In the scripture I cited He said “I and the Father are ONE.” You an I are not ONE with the Father. Only God is. Christ is telling them literally that He is One with the Father and since the Father is God it only follows Christ is God.
And since Islam does not recoginze Jesus Christ as the Son of God, literally then Islam is wrong according to Jesus Christ. And I am to hate the wrongness that denies God. Those who practice wrong thinking are no worse than me though. I know the truth of Jesus and of His Holy Church and I still sin. We all need His redemptive sacrifice to cleanse us of our wickedness and wrong headedness.:sad_yes:

 

[Agabriel]

planten asked for proof of Muhammed’s mental illness - I can not only prove that (thanks to Ali Sina’s research into Islam’s texts), but also that Muhammed had (at least one) physical ailment. It was probably why no pictures were allowed of him.

It is for these mental illnesses that I won’t judge Muhammed as harshly as I judge the sane who chose to follow such a guy as Muhammed.

All can be gotten from ‘Understanding Muhammed, A Psychobiography’. Ali Sina also has an article about Muhammed’s TLE - article about the temporal lobe epilepsy. If some have this problem keep in mind that in the 7th century there was little to be done to help these people - and that there were no drugs.

The article goes into the symptoms and also the references in Islam’s texts that point to Muhammed having TLE.

And anyone who says the hadith and sira are to be discounted are not being truthful. they enhance the Quran which makes little or no sense and puts the Quran in context.

The book mentioned also goes into Muhammed’s Narcissism, paranoia and obsessive-compulsive disorder (should we have wondered about this one! With Muhammed being so controlling over his followers right down to their sex and bathroom behaviors!)

 

[Agabriel]

the narcissist needs admirers. Anyone inside his ‘circle’ he rewards and encourages their sycophantism and he is the center. Anyone outside of the ‘circle’ are his enemies. (sounds a lot like fascists! ‘either you are with me or you are against me’. No wonder it is so easy to compare islam to communism and nazism)

-he is the center, the guru
-he demands obedience
-he feels entitled to adulation and special treatment
-he punishes the wayward
-he enforces discipline, adherence to his teachings and common goals
-the less accomplished he is the more stringent his mastery and the more pervasive the brainwashing (mohammed must have not been very accomplished at all!)
-control is based on ambiguous, unpredictable, fuzzy and ambient abuse.
-whims are ever shifting (which explains allah changing its mind all the time!)
-he alone determines right and wrong (which explains mohammed having to redefine sin!
-he is a micromanager (which explains why there over concern with other’s potty behavior, etc)
-he punishes and abuses severly those who do not conform to his wishes
-he ignores the wishes of his followers, he has no respect for their boundaries and need for privacy because he treats them as objects
-he disapproves of other’s autonomy and independence - even the most inane require his approval which means that the follower are gradually isolated from their friends and famly
-he acts in a patronizing and condescending manner and criticizes often.
-he is unrealistic in his expectations

And the big problem is that so many just follow blindly like so many followed Mao, Stalin, Hitler, etc!

His facade is one of modesty, self-effacing, one in the service of God, humanity or the cause. And we see that behind this facade is a clear motive, or goal. And the goal is to establish islam’s laws - not necessarily convert us to islam - just to be subjugated to it.

narcissist, personality disorder

mohammed was a narcissit, besides having frontal lobe epilepsy which I have already gone into.

• he thought he was the anointed messenger of God and the Seal of the Prophets (which I have already proven that he was not a prophet according to the Bible) Q 33:40
• mohammed regarded himself as Khayru-l-Khalq (the Best of Creation), an excellent example Q 33:21
• explicitly or implicitly hinted to be ‘exalted above other prophets in degrees’ Q2:253
• claimed to be ‘the preferred one’ Q21:107
• sent to as a ‘Mercy to the worlds’ Q21:107
• to have been risen ‘to a praised estate’ Q17:79 This is a station that no one but he would receive and this is the station of intercession at the right hand of the almighty next to his glorious throne. In other words he would be the one to advise allah who would go to hades and who would go to heaven.

mohammed claimed:
-allah created mohammed’s soul first
-allah created mohammed’s mind first (too bad it made so many mistakes!
-that mohammed is from allah and the believers are from mohammed
-allah gave him a noble character
-were it not for mohammed the Universe would not be created

they suffer from a lack of empathy (eg: Muhammed ok with killing even though his children would be orphaned.)

 

[dolphinlove]

Planten,
earlier you asked for scripture showing where Jesus declared Himself God or the Messiah. In the scripture I cited He said “I and the Father are ONE.” You an I are not ONE with the Father. Only God is. Christ is telling them literally that He is One with the Father and since the Father is God it only follows Christ is God.
And since Islam does not recoginze Jesus Christ as the Son of God, literally then Islam is wrong according to Jesus Christ. And I am to hate the wrongness that denies God. Those who practice wrong thinking are no worse than me though. I know the truth of Jesus and of His Holy Church and I still sin. We all need His redemptive sacrifice to cleanse us of our wickedness and wrong headedness.:sad_yes:

Slyboots,
Firstly sorry for a remark i made the other day, i misunderstood.
Secondly, planten is using the famous taqiyya. Because you proved it, he is now trying to change the subject. No matter how straight to the point and how correct it is, he will always try and change the subject, or bring up something else to divert it.
He always uses this tactic and then goes on and claims we cant answer etc etc.
This is how muslims are taught to ‘debate’
Regards
Dolphinlove