Why do you hate Islam?

[planten]

Some important clerics in Islam and what they have to say. (the one from the Muslim brotherhood is what erks me - they use the MSA (Muslim Student association) as one of their tools).

Sheik Yusuf Qaradawi, spiritual leader of the Muslim
Brotherhood:
“Islam came to be followed, not to follow; to be dominant,
not subordinate."
“Islam came with its complete, comprehensive and
eternal sharia (law) for the whole of mankind."
From Jihad in Islam by Sayyeed Abdul A’la Maududi,
one of the most prolific and most widely read Islamic
writer of the 20th Century:
“The goal of Islam is to rule the entire world and submit
all of mankind to the faith of Islam. Any nation or
power that gets in the way of that goal, Islam will fight
and destroy.”

Ali Gom’a, the grand mufti of Egypt, the highest
Muslim religious authority in the world, supports murdering
non-Muslims. In the daily Al Ahram (April 7,
2008), he says, “Muslims must kill non-believers wherever
they are unless they convert to Islam.” He also
compares non-Muslims to apes and pigs, not only
the Jews.

Muhammad Sayyid Al Tantawi, president of Al Azhar
University also approves of killing and maiming Christians,
Jews, and other infidels. He added, “This is not
my personal view. This what the Shari’a Law says,
the law of Allah, the only valid law on the earth.”

Yousef Al Qaradhawi, the spiritual leader of the fundamentalist
organization, the Muslim Brothers, urged
on Al Jazeera TV (Jan. 9, 2009) Muslims to kill the
Jews, not only in Israel but also worldwide. He added,
“No peace can be made between us (Muslims) and
the non-believers. This what our holy book says. This
what Allah says.”

**Agabriel, thanks for posting the words of some so-called religious bigots. They are not any religious leaders. But they are themselves misled. How can they lead the muslim masses.

Already, they have misled the muslims and the muslims have wasted most part of the 20th century due to the bad teachings of your quoted muslim militia men. I will name Maudoodi sahib as the one who did most of the damage to Islam. I agree to Agabriel that these are bad beliefs. But they are not Islam. The MuslimBrotherhood of Egypt was not far behind.

So I hope that Agabriel will agree to me that the mentioned persons did not know the real A B C of Islam. They all did the most damage to islam and Muslims at large. The result of their teaching about Jihad with weapons is very clear today all over the world. The Muslims are suffering. Islam is defamed, just due to the bad teachings of those self styled leaders.

The more the general body of Muslims will follow those bigots, the more they will suffer. Love (and not Hatred) is the key to the world problems and it was in the hands of the Muslisms. But these bigots, instead of using that key to peace and progress, they gave the gun in the hands of poor muslim youth. They snatched the book out of the hands of Muslim youth and gave them the gun.

So they all suffer humilation and defeat.**

 

[Magnus467]

**Agabriel, thanks for posting the words of some so-called religious bigots. They are not any religious leaders. But they are themselves misled. How can they lead the muslim masses.

Already, they have misled the muslims and the muslims have wasted most part of the 20th century due to the bad teachings of your quoted muslim militia men. I will name Maudoodi sahib as the one who did most of the damage to Islam. I agree to Agabriel that these are bad beliefs. But they are not Islam. The MuslimBrotherhood of Egypt was not far behind.

So I hope that Agabriel will agree to me that the mentioned persons did not know the real A B C of Islam. They all did the most damage to islam and Muslims at large. The result of their teaching about Jihad with weapons is very clear today all over the world. The Muslims are suffering. Islam is defamed, just due to the bad teachings of those self styled leaders.

The more the general body of Muslims will follow those bigots, the more they will suffer. Love (and not Hatred) is the key to the world problems and it was in the hands of the Muslisms. But these bigots, instead of using that key to peace and progress, they gave the gun in the hands of poor muslim youth. They snatched the book out of the hands of Muslim youth and gave them the gun.

So they all suffer humilation and defeat.**

Then what is real Islam??

 

[elwill]

Agabriel, thanks for posting the words of some so-called religious bigots. They are not any religious leaders. But they are themselves misled. How can they lead the muslim masses.

Already, they have misled the muslims and the muslims have wasted most part of the 20th century due to the bad teachings of your quoted muslim militia men. I will name Maudoodi sahib as the one who did most of the damage to Islam. I agree to Agabriel that these are bad beliefs. But they are not Islam. The MuslimBrotherhood of Egypt was not far behind.

So I hope that Agabriel will agree to me that the mentioned persons did not know the real A B C of Islam. They all did the most damage to islam and Muslims at large. The result of their teaching about Jihad with weapons is very clear today all over the world. The Muslims are suffering. Islam is defamed, just due to the bad teachings of those self styled leaders.

i think that agabril just tell lies about those muslims , i’m sure from that
they can’t say such things , he absolutely take thier speech out of context , it’s very clear

plz Agabriel give me your sources ,

 

[Eric_Hyom]

You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God

 

[planten]

i think that agabril just tell lies about those muslims , i’m sure from that
they can’t say such things , he absolutely take thier speech out of context , it’s very clear

plz Agabriel give me your sources ,

**elwill, I was also going to ask Agabriel for references. But I am sure about those people. I know about some of them. They gave lessons in Jihad with weapons and they wrote books about it. Maudoodi sahib wrote:

After being unsuccessful in preaching by the prophet for 13 years in Makkah, when the prophet took the sword in his hand then the rust and dust of disbelief was all removed very quickly…"

Maudoodi sahib also wrote that Islam was spread by sword. Astaghfiru Allah. (God forbids).

In the presence of such written remarks in their books, it is useless to defend those fellows who were proclaiming Jihaad against all non-believers. I noted that most of such Ulema (Muslim teachers) were teaching that any one who has not recited the Kalimah is a Kaafir. That is not true.

It will be all the better if Agabriel provided the references to what he/she wrote about the recent Muslim scholars.**

 

[planten]

**

Then what is real Islam??

**

Magnus, please understand that Islam is all for Peace. It does not tell to harm even single soul, believing or non-believing soul. It respects all nations and faiths and says that all faiths were Unitarian and based on revealtion from God. Prophets (messengers) came to all nations of the world.

The very basic concept is: “There is no God but One Allah and Muhammad is His servant and messenger.” This is called Kalimah.

It enjoins upon believers to believe in all the angels of God and in all the revealed books of God and in all the Messengers of God… (denying even one of the books or messengers will throw that person outside the pale of Islam.)

So much was the belief. The believer is called a Momin.

The Muslim is a believer 9as defined above). Then the Muslim has to pray to God five times a day ( or more) at specified times. He has to give 2.5% of his savings for the poor. He has to fast during the month of Ramadhan. He has to perform the pilgrimage to Makkah once in life time if conditions allow.

Nobody is a kaafir until he/she takes up arms against Islam. Every peaceful person of every faith (Hinduism or Judaism or christianity) is perfectly good person and need have no fear of anything. It is the duty of evry Muslim to look after the safety of non-Muslim neighbors, to protect their places of worship (churches etc) even at the peril of their pwn life.

It is a long subject. may have to be described in installments. real Islam is non-political, absolutely non-political. The will and wish to establish a Godly government is not essential duty of the Muslims. But it is necessary to live as a good human being with high morale. The most important is peacefullness. One has to bear the burden and be very peaceful happy person.

 

[Agabriel]

i think that agabril just tell lies about those muslims , i’m sure from that
they can’t say such things , he absolutely take thier speech out of context , it’s very clear

plz Agabriel give me your sources ,

The sources for these Muslim’s words are each man’s own words.

Do you own web searches - you will find many articles, clips and things that these men say. One Muslim wants to discount them, but these are well known men in Islam. Clerics, a President of a University, a Grand Mufti in Egypt. I already put the source after the man’s names. The first one wrote a book and it is in the book. Reread the post and you will find the source.

‘speech out of context’ is just another tactic used.

Too bad you don’t waste your energy on men like these and straighten them out.

 

[bengland]

Please do not go out of control. Slow down and do not say what is not in the Quran. Already you people have so many false beliefs that you have derived from the good words of the bibleOT and NT. Now you are trying to put words in our mouth that Quran says Jesus was a Liar. That is an absolute LIE. That is the byproduct of your bad minds only.

Can you show me any of that From Quran??.

It is silly to say that Islam on the one hand praises Jesus and on the other hand it calls him a Liar. Will any one believe you? You should know that it is your own misunderstanding of the truth and your fault. No fault in Islam or Quran.

The Quran says that Christians should check the Torah and the Gospels, or in other words, the Holy Scriptures that we have.

1Jn 2:21 I have not written to you as to them that know not the truth, but as to them that know it: and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son hath the Father also. As for you, let that which you have heard from the beginning abide in you. If that abide in you, which you have heard from the beginning, you also shall abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise which he hath promised us, life everlasting. These things have I written to you concerning them that seduce you.

and the following Truth about Christ is what is being denied.

2Jn 1:7 Because many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and the antichrist.

And the following is telling you exactly what that means…

1Ti 3:16 And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, and was received up in glory.

The Quran denies that God was manifest in the flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ and that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, therefore, according to the Bible and the witness of the Apostles and the early Church, it is a lie.

 

[elwill]

**elwill, I was also going to ask Agabriel for references. But I am sure about those people. I know about some of them. They gave lessons in Jihad with weapons and they wrote books about it. Maudoodi sahib wrote:

After being unsuccessful in preaching by the prophet for 13 years in Makkah, when the prophet took the sword in his hand then the rust and dust of disbelief was all removed very quickly…"

Maudoodi sahib also wrote that Islam was spread by sword. Astaghfiru Allah. (God forbids).

In the presence of such written remarks in their books, it is useless to defend those fellows who were proclaiming Jihaad against all non-believers. I noted that most of such Ulema (Muslim teachers) were teaching that any one who has not recited the Kalimah is a Kaafir. That is not true.

It will be all the better if Agabriel provided the references to what he/she wrote about the recent Muslim scholars.**

hi planten
i didn’t mean Maudoodi sahib , actually i even don’t know or hear about him before .
i refere to Sheik Yusuf Qaradawi and Ali Gom’a and Muhammad Sayyid Al Tantawi and Yousef Al Qaradhawi
i’m sure that they didn’t say what agabriel proclaimed about them , those scholars are moderate muslims

so that i’m asking for evidence

 

[elwill]

The sources for these Muslim’s words are each man’s own words.

Do you own web searches - you will find many articles, clips and things that these men say. One Muslim wants to discount them, but these are well known men in Islam. Clerics, a President of a University, a Grand Mufti in Egypt. I already put the source after the man’s names. The first one wrote a book and it is in the book. Reread the post and you will find the source.

‘speech out of context’ is just another tactic used.

Too bad you don’t waste your energy on men like these and straighten them out.

i didn’t discounted them at all , i know that these are all known men in islam , actually that’s why i’m sure that you proclaim lies in thier tonque , they are innocent from your words
just give me your sources if you honest , and don’t tell me that you heared it from thier own words , as for they speaking arabic and you don’t know arabic , they write in arabic and you don’t read arabic
so give me your sources please

peace

 

[sedonaman]

LOL
…
The koran isn’t logical at all. It is self-contradictory, full of confused and downright false statements (including about Christian and Jewish theology).
…

Back in Post #2, he said:

If I would like to know whether a religion is true or false, I should not depend on my emotions, feelings, or traditions. Rather, I should depend on my reason and intellect.

and I suggested that he then read this in-depth analysis. He never responded to it.

I personally suspect that most Muslims on CAF are here at the direction of some organization like CAIR to do damage control.

 

[Agabriel]

i didn’t discounted them at all , i know that these are all known men in islam , actually that’s why i’m sure that you proclaim lies in thier tonque , they are innocent from your words
just give me your sources if you honest , and don’t tell me that you heared it from thier own words , as for they speaking arabic and you don’t know arabic , they write in arabic and you don’t read arabic
so give me your sources please

This is just the tip of the iceberg. And this sort of stuff is being taught in our mosques way too often. It isn’t hard to find more articles on these ‘moderate’ Muslims. If it weren’t being taught then this news article wouldn’t be so much more of the same: Bolivia becoming a hotbed of Islamic extremism

here are some more on these ‘moderate’ Muslims you claim these people are, so much for ‘moderate’ Islam:

Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi: or more commonly known as: Theologian of Terror

quote: Qaradawi has a long record of inciting violence against Jews and Israel. For example, during a sermon that aired on the Arabic satellite channel Al-Jazeera TV on January 28, 2009, Qaradawi told his audience, “I will shoot Allah’s enemies, the Jews, and they will throw a bomb at me, and thus I will seal my life with martyrdom.”

A report​

Sayyeed Abdul A’la Maududi,

This article has quite a few quotes from this guy’s book

=================
Ali Gom’aIt seems the Grand Mufti and A’la Maududi agree on quite a few points!

Sheikh Dr. Ali Gum’a publishes article in establishment newspaper al-Ahram in which he claims ‘lies of Hebrew entity’ expose ‘ugly face of blood-suckers… who prepare matzo from human blood’

=================
Muhammad Sayyid Al Tantawi
For example, in a weekly sermon in April 2002, Al-Azhar Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, the highest-ranking cleric in the Sunni Muslim world, called the Jews “the enemies of Allah, descendants of apes and pigs.”

(MY COMMENT: One way to start the process of dehumanizing people so there is no problem with doing atrocities against them is to call them animals, it is in their Quran too)

=================

 

[Agabriel]

Back in Post #2, he said:

and I suggested that he then read this in-depth analysis. He never responded to it.

I personally suspect that most Muslims on CAF are here at the direction of some organization like CAIR to do damage control.

I suspect you might be correct, but some like planten - I don’t know why he is here. Maybe, I would suspect he has no other way to get his behind to heaven other than trying to convince us that Islam is a good thing. (da’wa, and taqiyya sorts of ‘good works’ for his daily scales to be balanced)

It is a part of the stealth Jihad too. And all of that amounts to ‘good works’ for all the Muslims here. 'What one author says about the Muslim “religion”'‏ is a thread about that stealth Jihad. I totally believe it is going on considering what I know about Islam, and reading what the Muslims say. It is important to listen to what they say rather than just sluff it off as inconsequential rants. (read the ‘Art of War’)

 

[sedonaman]

Then what is real Islam??

All of Western logic is based upon the law of contradiction – if two things contradict, then at least one of them is false. But Islamic logic is dualistic; two things can contradict each other and both are true.

No dualistic system may be measured by one answer. This is the reason that the arguments about what constitutes the “real” Islam go on and on and are never resolved. A single right answer does not exist.

Dualistic systems can be measured only by statistics. It is futile to argue one side of the dualism is true.

For an example of using statistics, look at the question: what is the real jihad, the jihad of inner, spiritual struggle or the jihad of war? Let’s turn to Bukhari (the Hadith) for the answer, as he repeatedly speaks of jihad. In Bukhari 97% of the jihad references are about war and 3% are about the inner struggle. So the statistical answer is that jihad is 97% war and 3% inner struggle. Is jihad war? Yes – 97%. Is jihad inner struggle? Yes – 3%. So if you are writing an article, you can make a case for either. But in truth, almost every argument about Islam can be answered by: all of the above. Both sides of the duality are right. – Warner, “The Study of Political Islam”

 

[GraceDK]

here are some more on these ‘moderate’ Muslims you claim these people are, so much for ‘moderate’ Islam:

Thats why I think Wafa Sultan makes most sense:

“Islam definition: Islam is exactly what Muhammad did and said.
There is no such thing as moderate islam. There is only islam.”
I urge everyone to listen to her… really, because she knows the implications of sharia and has lived 30 years in Syria: youtube.com/watch?v=ir_JNPn_GNM&feature=fvsr
Not only that, she is very well spoken and studied.

I went to the facebook page of Irshad Manji, a feminist lesbian reform-minded Muslim whom I admire for her courage to critizise muslim terrorism. I asked her how she feels about the fact that Muhammad would have stoned her to death? and said that I didnt believe in her project to reform islam because the koran makes absolutist claims that she has to take or leave.

Peace to you.

 

[sedonaman]

…
“Islam definition: Islam is exactly what Muhammad did and said.
There is no such thing as moderate Islam. There is only Islam.”
…

That agrees with Warner:

What is a “moderate Muslim?” What defines moderate? There are two references for moderation. [To us raised in the Christian tradition, the reference is “nice.”] A moderate [Muslim] is a nice person who won’t harm a kafir (an unbeliever).
But we are talking about a Muslim, so the only valid reference for moderation is Islam, not “nice.” It is the model of Mohammed who determines what Islam is. So if a Muslim imitates the Sunna of Mohammed, then he is moderate. Sunna is the words and deeds of Mohammed, the perfect pattern for all Muslims. The Koran says over 70 times that all Muslims are to imitate Mohammed in every detail of their life. … What does “radical” mean? Killing, robbing, enslaving, assassination, torture, deceiving, jihad? As long as those behaviors occur with the kafirs on the receiving end, they are all acts that were performed by Mohammed. If Mohammed did them, then they are not radical. Mohammed defines the middle of the road – normative behavior.

 

[dolphinlove]

actually i was asking about medical information about such illness which can control in someone through 23 years and give someone skills of poetry and knowledge of scripture and science and see visions then influence with his teaching great number of persons in very little time

yeah its called demonic possessed!

taqqiya !!!
there is no such concept in teaching of islam , i read about it within shi3a sect only
but such concept never mentioned in quran nor sunna nor sunni islamic books

about paul , it dosn’t matter with me if he had mental illness or not , i just raised this point against the allegation which raised on my prophet (pbuh)

Rubbish, all muslims used taqqiya, all muslims have used it on here.
And we are not talking about Paul are we, we are talking about your prophet, if you want to talk about Paul, start another thread and stop changing the subject.

hahahahahaha
so satan wanted to start a religion and decieve people and change thier beliefs from worshipping idols to worship one God !!!
did you forgot that mohammed (pbuh) preach his religion to pagans !!! , did satan wanted to decieve the pagans from the truth

laugh all you want, there is only one truthful religion, and its Christianity. I explained to you why the devil would do such a thing. See, you got it wrong again, how many times do we have to teach you we dont worship idols, but muslims do dont they, by bowing and praying to a big black rock…

most of this acts are evil , i didn’t deny
i just denying attaching islam with it

well they are in your hadiths/quran, got to accept it sometime!

we have similar verse in quran
13 - **O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, **and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

it have nothing to do with polygomy issue

honestly, i dont care what the quran has to say, the fact remains, because of muhammads new man made rules and lustful nature polygomy made a comeback

so , this is your logic to believe that polygomy is prohibited in christianity ??
i differ with you but i respect your beliefs

you think we worship idols, which means you know nothing about what Christianity teaches or beliefs.

the verse is talking about adam and eve , there is no other human being to mention more fleshes in this story

it was intended to be like that from the beginning, one man and one women only, not as many as one man wants.

i think that i have to suggest Bart Ehrman’s

npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5052156

believe me he didn’t read the quran nor did he listen to muslims to come up with such conclusions , all what he did is studying the bible deeply

bart simpson has more credability

thank you , i hope if Mary can really hear you

she can.

 

[Agabriel]

That agrees with Warner:

Basically, you and GraceDK are talking about Muslims that Muhammed labeled as ‘hypocrites’.

And basically one can only come to the same conclusion no matter how much the Muslims protest to us about it - there is no moderate or peaceful Islam - there are only Muslims who are either bad (that Muhammed called hypocrites) or good (waging Jihad, or supporters of those who wage Jihad).

It is the complete opposite of what our definitions for good and bad. oops, more twisting of the definitions of words by Muslims!

I think that Humpty Dumpty would never make it in the world of Islam.

 

[StevieD]

The latest ‘Journey Home’ edition on EWTN (15/6/06) is about a muslim lady who became a Catholic many years ago (watch/listen to it on the archives). Her family were very loving but they still tried to stop her going out after her conversion and her mother said that she would have preferred an illegitimate grandchild to a conversion in the family. They ceased contact with her several times after her escape from them. At least they didn’t assault or kill her as would have happened in some muslim families nor did they force her into a ‘suitable’ marriage. We’ve only heard of her because her parents were so ‘tolerant’.

 

[Agabriel]

The latest ‘Journey Home’ edition on EWTN (15/6/06) is about a muslim lady who became a Catholic many years ago (watch/listen to it on the archives). Her family were very loving but they still tried to stop her going out after her conversion and her mother said that she would have preferred an illegitimate grandchild to a conversion in the family. They ceased contact with her several times after her escape from them. At least they didn’t assault or kill her as would have happened in some muslim families nor did they force her into a ‘suitable’ marriage. We’ve only heard of her because her parents were so ‘tolerant’.

Yeah, and thanks StevieD. The thing I forget sometimes is that because of the harshness of Islam, it is asking a lot of a Muslim to just leave Islam. They leave their family, friends and way too often their lives are at stake.

At least in her case, her parents loved her more than death. Unfortunately, they couldn’t stop their hurtful words.

The Caner brothers also go into it in their interview here:

Former MUSLIMS Testify About ISLAM

Now, here is a warning - the Muslims will start denying that there is such a thing (a shunning of an apostate by their family and friends and/or a call for the apostate’s death) in Islam if someone leaves Islam

They have done it many times on CAF on different threads.