Why do you hate Islam?

[bobzills]

You’re assuming that “war” as you understand it is the same as what the Muslims mean. If I’ve learned anything about Islam, it’s that you cannot necessarily use Western understandings of even common terms and ideas interchangeably with Muslims’, hence my signature motto.

America has its own ideological war according to which it brings pornography, abortion and prostitution to areas where it was not before, such as Iraq, for example. Iraq did not have pornographic movies being shown openly until the Americans came and deposed the ruler of the country.

 

[Agabriel]

This is another side of dealing with Islam and some Muslims: according to the Qur’an and the Hadiths, deception that leads to victory for Islam is justified. It is fully allowable for Muslims to lie, deceive or ambush people as long as it benefits Islam.

This has implications for terrorism…

It also has implications for the kind of discussion we are having here. If things don’t go well for Muslims in this conversation, they can lie to us and it is fully allowable just so that Islam is benefited. Someone may come to a Muslim looking for answers to questions and they may be lied to and converted only later to find out that they were deceived so that Islam might benefit - and the Qur’an and Hadiths support it.

Jihad means struggle. Its all in the name of the struggle. Its a war of the mind - its a war of the flesh. Peace by any means. If I have to torture and kill you in the name of Allah so there can be peace, then by all means… what?!!?

It is so obvious ridiculous…

If I am a Muslim and I were the only one and I have to exterminate all of you in the name of Allah, so that His religion can be practiced, then there will be peace.

How foolish are people?

If course the time isn’t now, not yet:
"(Muslims in America) Their agenda is as old as Islam.
First, when weak, accommodate. Pretend to be peace-loving citizens
and a force for good. Second, as Islam grows, begin to agitate, demand
rights. Third, intimidate anyone or anything that dares to speak ill of Islam.
At present the world media cowers in fear of insulting Islam. The reprisals
are deadly. Fourth, when sufficiently strong, call for JIHAD and seek to subjugate.
Where Islam rules (Sharia law) all non-Muslims are dhimmis, second
class citizens who live in abject fear and pay heavy taxes."

the quote above presents the way in which Islam deceives in order to work its way into societies. This is what Islam has historically done and what it is doing in the world today.

It oppresses. God liberates us and leads us to become liberators through the means of love, and if people don’t want to accept Jesus, they don’t have to have Him, we can live in peace with people who don’t believe what we believe, but this is not the goal of Islam. It all goes back to the angel in the cave - it wasn’t Gabriel, it was Satan (or it was made up by Muhammad and then influenced by Satan along the way - Muhammad may have just thought he was running a religion scam, but Satan was in there laughing as Muhammad led the blood bath and every other evil thing that came along with it (rape, slavery, etc…)).

What you say is what Geert Wilders (and many other former Muslims) are saying. Here is some recent activity - they are getting bold with the increase of their numbers.

NY Muslims openly call for attacks

% of muslims and % of violence directed against non-muslims

 

[Agabriel]

America has its own ideological war according to which it brings pornography, abortion and prostitution to areas where it was not before, such as Iraq, for example. Iraq did not have pornographic movies being shown openly until the Americans came and deposed the ruler of the country.

Nope, they label prostitution as ‘weekend marriages’.
As for abortion, they have indeed thrown children away in the gutter. And if the woman gets pregnant by a rapist, or they find out she is raped, then she is killed if she doesn’t have 4 witnesses to her rape. And as for pornography - yeah right.

Maybe you need a trip down ‘memory lane’ with the Baathists in control of that nation they would just take the women and do what they willed to them and tossed them away - or killed them.

Your note is rather unbelievable. And you don’t understand the way Muslims relabel things to make them more ‘Islamic’ and acceptable while under the covers they are still just plain old smut.

 

[bobzills]

Your note is rather unbelievable. .

Well is it true or not, that under the previous leader of Iraq, Mr. Saddam Hussein, pornographic movies were not shown openly. And after the Americans came in, there were pornographic movies openly available in the movie theaters of Iraq?
And is it not true, that under American laws, women have the right to “choose”, which means that it is legal for them to murder their unborn children?
In our neighborhood, we see Muslim families with five or six children, while the American families have one or two. Why are so many American women murdering their unborn children, while the Muslims are choosing to have large families? Do Muslim women love children more than Catholic women, who according to the statistics I have seen. are aborting their children at rates comparable to women in other groups in the USA?
Why do so many Catholics choose to vote for pro-abortion politicians who promise to keep abortion available to the general public?

 

[Hadi]

It also has implications for the kind of discussion we are having here. If things don’t go well for Muslims in this conversation, they can lie to us and it is fully allowable just so that Islam is benefited. .

please show me some examples on how to lie to you about Islam …

 

[ZAKI]

What you say is what Geert Wilders (and many other former Muslims) are saying. Here is some recent activity - they are getting bold with the increase of their numbers.

NY Muslims openly call for attacks

% of muslims and % of violence directed against non-muslims

geert wilders is not a former muslim-he is a racist.

wasalam

 

[ZAKI]

Nope, they label prostitution as ‘weekend marriages’.
As for abortion, they have indeed thrown children away in the gutter. And if the woman gets pregnant by a rapist, or they find out she is raped, then she is killed if she doesn’t have 4 witnesses to her rape. And as for pornography - yeah right.

Maybe you need a trip down ‘memory lane’ with the Baathists in control of that nation they would just take the women and do what they willed to them and tossed them away - or killed them.

Your note is rather unbelievable. And you don’t understand the way Muslims relabel things to make them more ‘Islamic’ and acceptable while under the covers they are still just plain old smut.

you need to understand the difference between shi’ite islam and mainstream islam-shi’ite islam practises mutah while mainstream islam deems it haram. And pornography is haram! and your statement is untrue-if they FIND OUT that she was raped then the rapist is killed.

wasalam

 

[ZAKI]

Hey Zaki,

   What is it that draws you to the Qur'an, Muhammad and Islam?  As you were studying the Qur'an, what was it that struck you, that made you want to commit to Islam?

  I tried to figure out how to send this in private mail, but I can't for some reason - might be something wrong with my browser.

   Are you saying that part of the reason you became a Muslim was because your father is a Muslim?

    I study all kinds of religions.  Some of the best teaching I come across is on this site:

marshill.org/teaching/

   You can download MP3s.  I usually go for the ones from Rob Bell first.

   One thing I have noticed with many Muslims is that it tends not to be a religion that encourages asking hard questions.  It tends not to provide in-depth logic or understanding in order to make a commitment.  Christianity is not always this way, but **most **often people are required to really understand things before they make a commitment.  I want to encourage you to keep studying both religions.  See what God puts in front of you to study and see what makes sense to you.  Pray a lot.  Don't pray scripted practiced prayers, but attempt to pray from your heart.  As you read the Qur'an, pray, ask God to reveal Himself to you.  As you read the Bible, pray, ask God to speak to you.  As you go to Mosque, pray.  If you listen to the sermons I've directed you to on the site above, pray.  Ask God simple questions about what is truly on your mind.

   Don't believe like me, or your Mom, or your Dad.  Believe what God leads you to.  May your faith be your own based on what God leads you into.

    The passage cited in your post above promotes peace.  It shows us the way that peace is achieved through Islam.  Brutality and violence, any means possible so that peace can be achieved.  Imagine if some people decided that your mother was an obstacle to peace because she is a Christian, so they cut off her finger tips and then beheaded her.  Would you feel peace?  They have gotten rid of another filthy Christian, so they are happy, but are you?  Imagine a 5 year old child of the people who murdered your mother was watching it all happen.  How would that child respond?  What would it do to that child watching your mother be tortured, by having her fingertips cut off and then being beheaded.  That child would be emotionally and spiritually damaged.  That child might never have real peace.  Peace is not achieve through Islam... Now that is my opinion - that's just me.

I believe that the peace that Jesus came to bring blesses everyone it touches. It is supposed to be light upon darkness. It is supposed to help everyone be free of blindness. It doesn’t happen through violence and torture. Violence and torture just brings more blindness, sorrow, misery, hurt and pain. Jesus provides a way out of that kind of existence.

But don’t believe like me… May your faith be your own based on what God leads you into.

Be Blessed!

SW

Jazakallah khair (may God grant you goodness). I liked this post because it is one of the first I have seen which isn’t insulting just providing a point of view.
The reason why I liked islam was not because of my father. He isn’t really that involved in my life. My mother (who is a christian) is more involved in my life but when I turned 13 he gave me a Quran and I read it and it was beautiful.

wasalam

 

[Agabriel]

Well is it true or not, that under the previous leader of Iraq, Mr. Saddam Hussein, pornographic movies were not shown openly. And after the Americans came in, there were pornographic movies openly available in the movie theaters of Iraq?
And is it not true, that under American laws, women have the right to “choose”, which means that it is legal for them to murder their unborn children?
In our neighborhood, we see Muslim families with five or six children, while the American families have one or two. Why are so many American women murdering their unborn children, while the Muslims are choosing to have large families? Do Muslim women love children more than Catholic women, who according to the statistics I have seen. are aborting their children at rates comparable to women in other groups in the USA?
Why do so many Catholics choose to vote for pro-abortion politicians who promise to keep abortion available to the general public?

You are right, we have a group in our country - left wing liberals - that are ok with the killing of unborns right up to the moment of birth. It is despicable.

As for what Catholics do - I cannot answer to that. Maybe you should start questioning the clergy and the Catholics themselves. Where is the clergy? Too many openly supported this pro-abortion president. He is one of the ones who is ok with late term abortions.

But, you need to start a different thread. This is about Islam. If you want to point out to the bad behavior of others to excuse what Muslims do and are silent about then that is called a tu quoque type of excuse.

It is obvious that it bothers you. What do you do to stop it? I know that I try, in the area that I am interested in improving, by joining Act for America. But, lecturing me about what Catholics do is not going to get you anywhere or using it as an excuse to justify poor behavior in Islam also isn’t going to get you anywhere.

 

[bobzills]

But, you need to start a different thread. This is about Islam. .

But do Muslims have a legitimate reason to fear America and the values of the infidel that America is attempting to export to the Islamic world? The thread is why do you hate Islam? Perhaps Americans hate Islam becasue they are afraid that if Islamic values are spread far and wide, then abortion may become illegal and they will not be able to murder thier own unborn children legally.

 

[planten]

I don’t hate Islam, I hate it’s continued 1400 year assault on Western civilization.

**Redhen, you could have reduced the time period by about 200 years. SO the assault could have been for the 1200 years only. That is because it is the western people who have assaulted the poor asian and afrikan nations for the last 200 years. Would you please agree?

Moreover it was not the Muslims who started the assault. It was the Roman catholic Empire and Persian Empires who did it. So they had to pay the price. You and I need not worry and condemn the Muslims for the 1200 years of early Muslim history.**

I don’t need to read Mein Kampf or Das Kapital to realize that Nazism and Communism are also threats to Western civilization.

Every ethnic group is entitled to it’s own homeland, so the refrain goes, Palestine for the Palestinians, Israel for the Jews. I submit that native Europeans are also entitled to their own homeland.

Good idea. No need to go near your by=products, the Main Kampf and the Das Kapital. Whoever wrote them were also not Muslims. So there is no blame on the Muslims for that. Will you please agree the harm that your Mein Kampf had done to the world?

Every nation is entitled to its homeland. The Jews have got a home land. But they must not deny the right for other peaceful people to live in their own homes.

 

[HickmanJosh]

((geert wilders is not a former muslim-he is a racist.))

Indeed, his far-right party is based on similar ideals to those of the Nazis, xenophobia. It saddens me to hear they got so many votes in the last European Election.

((Perhaps Americans hate Islam becasue they are afraid that if Islamic values are spread far and wide, then abortion may become illegal and they will not be able to murder thier own unborn children legally.))

Christians are out to shut down abortion just as much as Islam, but lets not get off topic. The Americas hate Islam because they fear the extremist and they fear if they don’t act then more and more Muslims will join in and kill many Americans. Indeed the terrorists have terrorized the west.

((Will you please agree the harm that your Mein Kampf had done to the world?))

Wait wait wait, OUR Mien Kampf?????  I am Pretty sure Hitler wasn't a Christian,  he even had a plot to kill the Pope, Mien Kampf was a product of Hitlers mindless absetion with ruling the world and killing every Jewish person on the Planet along with all of those who threatened him.

((Every nation is entitled to its homeland. The Jews have got a home land. But they must not deny the right for other peaceful people to live in their own homes.))

Israel just finds it hard to trust the Palestinians, after all the wars and such there is almost no trust anywhere between them, the new Israeli gov isent helping ether. Once again off topic, were hear to talk Islam.

Be at peace.

HickmanJosh

 

[swplan76]

please show me some examples on how to lie to you about Islam …

I guess the bottom line is that if we are having a discussion and I say, Muhammad says this, “…”, or the Hadiths say this, “…” its difficult for you to challenge that, but you could say, “No, you have misunderstood those verses - your interpretation is wrong.” But while saying this, you might not believe it. You might actually agree with me on the interpretation, but for the sake of public frustration with Islam, you might try to shut down the conversation by any means required. You might lie to me about the events of History (recent or ancient). Any disagreement might be sincere, or it might be deception because this is promoted in the hadiths and the Qur’an.

 

[swplan76]

Jazakallah khair (may God grant you goodness). I liked this post because it is one of the first I have seen which isn’t insulting just providing a point of view.
The reason why I liked islam was not because of my father. He isn’t really that involved in my life. My mother (who is a christian) is more involved in my life but when I turned 13 he gave me a Quran and I read it and it was beautiful.

wasalam

Thanks Zaki,

   I am asking more specifically, what was in the Qur'an that was so inspiring to you?  From there, you learned about Islam - what in the religion was so attractive that you wanted to commit to it?

   We all have "ah ha!" moments.  What were some of the things that made you want to be a Muslim?

Thanks,
SW

 

[GraceDK]

geert wilders is not a former muslim-he is a racist.

wasalam

Hehe… no, Geert Wilders certainly is no former Muslim.
However, his anti-Islam agenda has little if nothing to do with racism.
It’s a generel thing that we who are very sceptical of Islam are called racists.
When the movie Fitna came out (Wilders made it) all the Muslims were very angry. So I thought: I’ll see it… there must be something untrue in it… some lies or fabrications. I watched it: There were no movie scenes. Just the one horrible authentic news clip after the other of Islamic terrorism, with some Koran quotes in between…
After having watched how masked islamists shouted Allah Akbar while cutting the throat of a screeming civil man, I wondered why there was only silence from Muslims about the actual content of the movie. Where were the condemnations of the actions and the sick minds that did and continue to want to cause death everywhere in the name of the Koranic god?
Geert Wilders was chosen in Holland because the Dutch people and their democracy is under severe pressure. One politician was forced to go underground (Ayaan Hirsi) and the filmmaker Theo Van Gogh was buthered on open street for making the islam critic movie Submission. (on that morning, when the radical muslim came after Theo, Theo said: “hey can’t we talk about it?!”) His throat was cut a moment later and a note stapped to his chest… He had offended the prophet. Where were the muslim world’s protests and riots over these attacks on freedom rights???
I have a Christian friend who lives in the Hague. Her hair is long and blond. She cannot go through her city on a bike without being yelled “Dutch *****” at. This kind of harrassment has become so unbearable for her that she is planning to emigrate away from her own country.
You may not believe it… but all over Europe the Muslim immigration has brought us nothing but grief and pressure on our law and economic systems. At the same time people from muslim countries are absolutely furious if anyone critizises them. The self-victimisation is alive and well … Once last year they turned my own city up side down. Not even ambulances nor police could go into certain neighbourhoods…

But its useless to tell you these things… to you we are all just narrowminded people who dont understand Islam… even when we say what is evident, you call us intolerant. Actually intolerance was brough to perfection in your own prophet.

 

[ZAKI]

Thanks Zaki,

   I am asking more specifically, what was in the Qur'an that was so inspiring to you?  From there, you learned about Islam - what in the religion was so attractive that you wanted to commit to it?

   We all have "ah ha!" moments.  What were some of the things that made you want to be a Muslim?

Thanks,
SW

Assalam,

I was attracted to the way the Quran presented itself. It didn’t seem to be written by a man. And if it had been written by a man, (a fact which I don’t agree with bcz I’m a muslim) it would’ve taken one heck of a guy to do it rather than an illiterate prophet from the deserts of Arabia.

I was also attracted to the way muslims prayed as well. Much different to the christian prayers and singing in church. It was complete silence (except for people muttering the praises of God) in the mosque all until the words “God is Great” from the adhan–call to prayer-- echoed-that was a ah ha moment but I also felt quite peaceful in the mosque something which I can’t really explain though. I watched the muslims pray and bow down in humbleness to the creator and alhamdullilah I have learnt how to pray! I also know how to speak some arabic and read it. I went to some arabic tutors for a while so I can learn the basics so that I can read the Quran.

wasalam

 

[ZAKI]

Hehe… no, Geert Wilders certainly is no former Muslim.
However, his anti-Islam agenda has little if nothing to do with racism.
It’s a generel thing that we who are very sceptical of Islam are called racists.
When the movie Fitna came out (Wilders made it) all the Muslims were very angry. So I thought: I’ll see it… there must be something untrue in it… some lies or fabrications. I watched it: There were no movie scenes. Just the one horrible authentic news clip after the other of Islamic terrorism, with some Koran quotes in between…
After having watched how masked islamists shouted Allah Akbar while cutting the throat of a screeming civil man, I wondered why there was only silence from Muslims about the actual content of the movie. Where were the condemnations of the actions and the sick minds that did and continue to want to cause death everywhere in the name of the Koranic god?
Geert Wilders was chosen in Holland because the Dutch people and their democracy is under severe pressure. One politician was forced to go underground (Ayaan Hirsi) and the filmmaker Theo Van Gogh was buthered on open street for making the islam critic movie Submission. (on that morning, when the radical muslim came after Theo, Theo said: “hey can’t we talk about it?!”) His throat was cut a moment later and a note stapped to his chest… He had offended the prophet. Where were the muslim world’s protests and riots over these attacks on freedom rights???
I have a Christian friend who lives in the Hague. Her hair is long and blond. She cannot go through her city on a bike without being yelled “Dutch *****” at. This kind of harrassment has become so unbearable for her that she is planning to emigrate away from her own country.
You may not believe it… but all over Europe the Muslim immigration has brought us nothing but grief and pressure on our law and economic systems. At the same time people from muslim countries are absolutely furious if anyone critizises them. The self-victimisation is alive and well … Once last year they turned my own city up side down. Not even ambulances nor police could go into certain neighbourhoods…

But its useless to tell you these things… to you we are all just narrowminded people who dont understand Islam… even when we say what is evident, you call us intolerant. Actually intolerance was brough to perfection in your own prophet.

Assalam,

I don’t think you are narrow-minded people (I do believe that you don’t understand islam though). What I hate about some people is that they either get the extremist muslim point of view, the anti-muslim point of view or the watered-down muslims point of view and thus leave out the majority of muslims. And by the way, there are dickheads everywhere including christian ones. Some christians won’t just yell out an insult to a young female, they’ll rape them and murder them.
Read about this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings

This event happened a few years back in Iraq when a group of christian american soldiers gang-raped a 13 year old muslim girl after killing her entire family (including her younger sister) and after they had had their fun with her they shot her dead and burnt the house and left.
Now this was totally DISGUSTING. But I refuse to judge an entire religion on a few crimes made by dickheads who “apparently” follow the religion or extremists who take things too far.

wasalam

 

[GraceDK]

Assalam,

I don’t think you are narrow-minded people (I do believe that you don’t understand islam though). What I hate about some people is that they either get the extremist muslim point of view, the anti-muslim point of view or the watered-down muslims point of view and thus leave out the majority of muslims. And by the way, there are dickheads everywhere including christian ones. Some christians won’t just yell out an insult to a young female, they’ll rape them and murder them.
Read about this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings

This event happened a few years back in Iraq when a group of christian american soldiers gang-raped a 13 year old muslim girl after killing her entire family (including her younger sister) and after they had had their fun with her they shot her dead and burnt the house and left.
Now this was totally DISGUSTING. But I refuse to judge an entire religion on a few crimes made by dickheads who “apparently” follow the religion or extremists who take things too far.

wasalam

Now you just need to back your statement with some facts. Tell me what churches did these soldiera attend. Give me some back ground. You know that American does not equal Christian… so prove it… they were practising Christians? I dont think so… and lastly but not least, did they, like the Islamists, justify their horrible act by means of the example of Jesus Christ or the Bible even? You know the answer to this question quite well. You say these follow the religion? what religion? you never see Christ act in this way… so what are you talking about? Truly the wages of such behaviour is an eternity in hell. But according to hamas who call themselves soldiers of the muslim god, you go to a heaven of 72 virgins even if you die while killing civilians.
Also, as you know, western countries deal with criminals accordingly, while Muslim countries often let the perpetrators of honour killings, domestic violence and phedofilia go unchecked.
You dont believe me… listen to this arab lebanese who speaks about the reality of arab women in the Middle East… is it heavy on your soul and ears to hear these things? I hope so… it would show that you still have compassion and humanity… youtube.com/watch?v=ouztv-tRPKM&feature=related

 

[GraceDK]

Assalam,

This event happened a few years back in Iraq when a group of christian american soldiers gang-raped a 13 year old muslim girl after killing her entire family (including her younger sister) and after they had had their fun with her they shot her dead and burnt the house and left.
Now this was totally DISGUSTING. But I refuse to judge an entire religion on a few crimes made by dickheads who “apparently” follow the religion or extremists who take things too far.

wasalam

Was Muhammad a dickhead too?
I think, from what I read, that he qualifies… Don’t you?
He slept with a girl the same day as he killed her whole tribe. Dickhead… right? totally gross… problem with him is that you hold him as a prophet so you cant critizise him… that’s the biggest tragedy of Islam.

 

[ZAKI]

Now you just need to back your statement with some facts. Tell me what churches did these soldiera attend. Give me some back ground. You know that American does not equal Christian… so prove it… they were practising Christians? I dont think so… and lastly but not least, did they, like the Islamists, justify their horrible act by means of the example of Jesus Christ or the Bible even? You know the answer to this question quite well. You say these follow the religion? what religion? you never see Christ act in this way… so what are you talking about? Truly the wages of such behaviour is an eternity in hell. But according to hamas who call themselves soldiers of the muslim god, you go to a heaven of 72 virgins even if you die while killing civilians.
Also, as you know, western countries deal with criminals accordingly, while Muslim countries often let the perpetrators of honour killings, domestic violence and phedofilia go unchecked.
You dont believe me… listen to this arab lebanese who speaks about the reality of arab women in the Middle East… is it heavy on your soul and ears to hear these things? I hope so… it would show that you still have compassion and humanity… youtube.com/watch?v=ouztv-tRPKM&feature=related

I’ll go through your post later but now I have to go to sleep.
Btw, is that youtube video also translated by memritz.org?

wasalam