Why do you hate Islam?

[swplan76]

Sure Islam COULD be as violent as you guys say it is but i won’t say one way or another until a priest, or one of the apologist’s here says it is. feel free to call me a blind fool or something but i am not about to disobey the church. Yeah i am angry at what i hear about Islam, its very very sick frankly but we are told not to judge anyone or anything unless we are ready to be judged ourselves.

What would you reclassify Islam as anyway?
To clarify one thing, do you think Islam is a creation of Satan?

Judge not lest ye be judged.

HickmanJosh

Hey Josh,

     I know this isn't a response to me, but I thought I'd respond any way (lets just say I'm one of the "you guys" you referred to).  Josh, just read the Qur'an and the Hadiths... its right there in print.  You don't need to wait for a papal ruling, or a statement from a priest.  The Catholic church won't want to make any statement like that.  While the Catholic world might largely be able to handle criticism, the Muslim world is not.  If the Catholic church, or if priests were to begin speaking honestly about Islam, Muslims would start protesting and hurting people.  The Catholic church doesn't hate Muslims, so it probably wants to keep from making Muslims from being confused... It seems to me that the Catholic church is attempting to be approachable to the Muslim community.  The Muslim community will not feel loved if the Catholic church starts speaking out against Islam.  The fact is that God loves Muslims, as He does all people.  We have to "speak the truth in love."  On this forum, I am not representing the Catholic church.  I am just some loud mouth with an opinion.  I try to be honest and keep it clear in my words that my problem is not with Muslims.  My problem is with Islam.  Of course Muslims follow Islam and the line gets blurry, but I try to keep that in the forefront.

** What would you reclassify Islam as anyway?**
If I were to reclassify Islam, it might be as a political system with theistic roots - Political Theism… but it clearly is a religion. As it makes political demands, it might be nice to be able to understand that it is then acting as a political movement and then treat it as such… We could just refuse to accept any of their suggestions: “Sorry, your form of government is illegal here.”

** To clarify one thing, do you think Islam is a creation of Satan?**
I do. I believe one of two things happened. Either the angel in the cave was a figment of Muhammad’s imagination, or the angel was real and it was Satan. If Muhammad made it up, then Satan just piggybacked on the movement. I tend to imagine that Muhammad really met with Satan though. He described the experience - it sounds like death - like how it might feel if one were to be face to face with Satan.

** Judge not lest ye be judged.**
“Work through your faith with fear and trembling.”
I think it is best to leave the judging up to God. I think it is important that we remember that He is the judge. At the same time, we need to speak to each other to help each other be aware of what is happening in our world. I don’t demand that everyone agrees with me - I hope its clear that I do not claim to have the definitive word on things. My words are only my thoughts, not the be all and end all. I’m sure I’m wrong about a lot of things.

Peace,
SW

 

[Agabriel]

Hey Zaki,

Hinduism
Hinduism doesn’t have any specific doctrine on war or killing. If a person wants to reach enlightenment, they have to live good lives. Killing is generally a bad thing to be involved in. Arjuna was encouraged to kill his enemies by Krishna. Hindu gods are involved in battles and epic adventures, but this is not encouraged by the gods… Hinduism is generally a religion that encourages people to live at peace with everyone (regardless of what you believe) and do your best to accomplish the 4 stages and earn good karma. Yes Hindus have responded to Muslim violence. There has been war between the two groups, but Hindus have never been the primary aggressors (as far as I know).

You said:
"Spouting out lies and KNOWING that your spouting out lies about a religion is punishable in any religion-so hold you tongue!"

This is untrue. It is punishable in Islam only. Sure people of other major religions don’t like it when people say bad things about them that are true or untrue, but only Islam actually has a punishment for non-believers around this. Other major religions actually let words be words… Words are just words. …“sticks and stone may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.” Words mostly only hurt those who are already weak.

A friend of mine said to me a few years ago, “10% of life is what happens to you, 90% is what you do with it.” Another way to think about this idea is in this phrase, “Put someone in hot water and you’ll find out what they are made of.” When things become stressful, do we turn into a toxic mess that isn’t helpful to anyone, or do we slow things down and set the pace and refuse to be manipulated by the feeling of the moment? When someone says something bad about us, how do we respond? Do we forgive and turn the other cheek? or do we punish them for their words? Islam is the only religion that demands a punishment for people of other faiths. Thanks for bringing that up.

No, the Hindus were not the primary aggressors and as with the Crusades and others who finally strike back after years of being abused by Muslims, the Muslims and their appeasers twist history to make the Muslim victims the aggressors. It is ‘cool’ these days to bash Christians and Jews and think that Islam is peaceful and ‘cool’. Hindus and also Buddhists are usually left out of the picture. And then if they are brought in they take 2nd stage to the thoughts about Islam. So, if anyone is put in a bad light, it will not be Islam.

In fact, the term ‘aggressor’ in Islam never applies to Muslims. They only use it against unbelievers. If they cannot carry on their religion as they see fit, then they are called the oppressed. Their violence is called ‘opening up the world to Islam’. And for any infidel to strike a Muslim back is strictly forbidden in Islam and justifies Muslims going a ‘good deed’ and doing their Jihad.

I am surprised people don’t see how twisted that logic is.

I worked in a job over 30 years that used logic (programming) so I can catch on to logic and programming (languages). Maybe that is why I ‘see’ it so clearly. Whether the logic is faulty, or evil, it is still a logic to it.

It is like one has to reset all the definitions in a program to what the Muslim defintions to the terms are and then insert the logic using those terms. A Cobol type of code/program with the variables clearly defined and written.

 

[swplan76]

Stop telling people that. It has been a well known fact for quite some time now. Reality is not a part of Islam, only their single minded conquering of others is.

With India having 3 major bloody Jihads from the past against them, and a fourth going on now, it is a reality. And for you to show us a retaliation by the Hindus and calling the Hindus the problem, is what the Muslims do best.

Basically, the Hindus are not supposed to retaliate - no unbeliever is to retaliate - against Muslims murdering them and when/if they do then the Muslims act like they are the victims. They are NOT the victims. They might be masters at behaving as if they are the victims, but they are not. They do the same thing with the Israelis, as we saw in Bosnia/Kosovo, and elsewhere. And too often we see the Muslims themselves causing the deaths of their own women and children, and then using their bodies as propaganda.

Sharia laws say that it is ok for Muslims to kill, or do whatever to them, and nothing will happen to the Muslims. This is why Muslims will continually behave as they are the victims when someone finally retaliates.

Its strange. The Palestinians are saying, “we were here first, the Jews should leave.” Who was in India first? The Hindus, or the Muslims? You are right Islamic law is very lopsided in favor of Muslims. The points on deception from the Hadiths (and the Qur’an?) are very clear that it is ok to decieve people in order that Islam might prevail. Its not about truth in Islam, its about power and control of others.

 

[Agabriel]

Its strange. The Palestinians are saying, “we were here first, the Jews should leave.” Who was in India first? The Hindus, or the Muslims? You are right Islamic law is very lopsided in favor of Muslims. The points on deception from the Hadiths (and the Qur’an?) are very clear that it is ok to decieve people in order that Islam might prevail. Its not about truth in Islam, its about power and control of others.

You got it.

Unfortunately, no one is realizing the world has a big problem. The Indians fight it on their own - we basically put our heads in the sand concerning India. The Africans are mostly fighting it on their own and not doing too well. The Israelis are mostly fighting it on their own because no one thinks that supporting Israel is cool. (I won’t go into our current administration and their poor decisions) Europe is fighting it alone. Russia is fighting it alone. China is fighting it alone. Southeast Asian countries are dealing with it on their own.

No one is getting together to deal with it. And if we depend on the UN, or NATO, that is a joke. They like to sit back and watch the Muslims rearm, rape, torture, and kill. They are mostly disgusting. And the masses of Muslims do absolutely nothing about it. (the books, Because They Hate and The Revenge of the Prophet goes into some of the UNs poor behavior)

No one is holding Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt, and other Muslims accountable. Of course, the majority will start their victimization routines. It is like trying to grab hot noodles in a pot with your bare hands.

http://thm-a04.yimg.com/image/e5a9fe7010468a54

 

[swplan76]

Ignorance does not. And to not show information just lets people wallow in ignorance.

it is what everyone wants who are just saying ‘love love love’ that they want to continue in their ignorance and then just don’t know how to handle the ideology that is Islam.

In fact, every country that is on that video had no problem with Muslims as neighbors and friends. And they continued down the path of ignorance and when the Muslims gathered their strength and their numbers, they started their violence and other atrocities. And it went on for decades because people just thought it was a fluke, then it became more violent, and then the appeasers thought that by agreeing to all the demands and soothing their wailing and whining that they were the victims - one day, it got out of hand. But, it was too late because the schools were already indoctrinated, the governments were in major appeasement mode, and the Jihadists were already on their doorsteps, knocking.

The best book I can say to see how it happens is ‘Because They Hate’.

Some others are to see what is happening in Europe: Eurasia, While Europe Slept and/or Menace in Europe.

REvenge of the Prophet tells what happened in the Bosnia/Kosovo areas.

It is all the same story only with people of different languages and different areas on our globe.

I know, its terrible…

I’m not trying to promote love and ignorance.

I’m trying to promote love. In my mind, we need to understand and work towards a solution to the problem.

Jesus often responded to situations in ways that were surprising and uncommon.

If someone strikes you, your response (if you are like most people) would be to either cower, run, or respond with violence. Jesus says, turn the other cheek. WHy? to let people walk all over you? No. the people Jesus was originally speaking these words to were Jews who were being occupied by the Roman Empire. The most common experience of being slapped in the face would have been done by the Roman soldiers to Jews. Turn the other cheek, why? To resist. To demand that the person think about why they are doing what they are doing. To refuse to let it pass. To hold the person accountable so they have to commit to their oppression. As we resist them peacefully and they continue to oppress us, their ignorance will shine and they will lose heart in the evil they are doing.

Jesus points us into a third way that doesn’t respond in extremes. Don’t cower, run or respond with violence. Pray and look for a 3rd, or fourth way. Resist, but resist in a way that does not produce evil.

 

[HickmanJosh]

Wow, I didn’t know I needed a priest to tell me to get educated.

But, hey - if you don’t get the answer you are looking from one priest you can go to another one. And that goes the same for an apologist.

Personally, I can’t believe you just wrote what you did. It is the same as the Muslims using all their excuses for Islam’s, and especially Muhammed’s, atrocities.

You would be ‘ripe pickings’ for some of the drill instructors I had in the USMC. They loved it when some recruit would come up with some lamo excuse for not doing something. They would be all over that person like a tics on a dog.

Not to get educated but to learn what the church says about Islam. If i don’t know what the church teaches about it and i form an opinion that is averse to that of the church then i could put myself at odds with it.

So they’d be all over me for not hating something? Are you saying my excuses for not hating Islam are lame?

HickmanJosh

 

[Agabriel]

Its strange. The Palestinians are saying, “we were here first, the Jews should leave.” Who was in India first? The Hindus, or the Muslims? You are right Islamic law is very lopsided in favor of Muslims. The points on deception from the Hadiths (and the Qur’an?) are very clear that it is ok to decieve people in order that Islam might prevail. Its not about truth in Islam, its about power and control of others.

I wanted to add, that there really are no group called ‘Palestinians’. They are Arabs and could easily be absorbed into the other Arab nations around the area but they are instead ejected out of those countries. Jordan ejected them out, Egypt has a fence to keep them out and does nothing for them except to give them weapons to fight the Israelis. The Arabs make sure they get money for their jihadists and weapons.

Basically the people in that area are just a tool that the other Muslims are using.

Some of those Arabs went to Lebanon and they caused problems for the Lebonese Christians there, along with Hezbollah.

And we just let them get away with their daily violence - ho hum… And when the Israelis fight back THEN the world takes notice.

It is all so hypocritical of the world, the media and people.

 

[Agabriel]

Not to get educated but to learn what the church says about Islam. If i don’t know what the church teaches about it and i form an opinion that is averse to that of the church then i could put myself at odds with it.

So they’d be all over me for not hating something? Are you saying my excuses for not hating Islam are lame?

HickmanJosh

For crying out loud. Buy the books I did from this site. It tells you. I bought several of them - the Bible and the Quran, Beginning Apologetics, How to answer Muslims, and Answering Islam.

And here is something novel - read them.

 

[peary]

As I said before, I do not hate Islam. I am alarmed and concerned over the radical and fundamentalist Wahabi movement within Islam which has resulted in Islamic Fascism. Since this religious movement threatens fundamental liberties of all human beings because of its beliefs and destructive attacks, it needs to be dealt with for its eradication.

I would have no interest in Islam because I believe that it is an incomplete religion; it does not possess the full truth of Faith as revealed by Jesus Christ. There seems to be a master/slave mentality in relationship between God and worshipper in Islam, which is archaic. Authentic Christianity is based on love and forgiveness of sin - a covenant between God ourselves, and between ourselves here on earth. Because we have a personal relationship with God in this way, we also have a communal relationship in the same way with each other through His Church.

 

[sedonaman]

…
Judge not lest ye be judged.
…

I have my suspicions that this is a “bumper-sticker” slogan that has been misunderstood, perhaps grossly in some cases. I volunteer for the Society of St. Vincent de Paul that helps poor people pay for living expenses such as rent, utilities, food, and medical bills. We’ve also helped out on the occasional miscellaneous bill on a case basis. The Society emphasizes “do not judge” in its training classes, and it’s good advice for the most part. But there are limits that are seldom recognized.

A couple of years ago, our Conference paid for what I call “The Bus Ticket to Hell.” A poor young woman wanted to get to California to be near her boyfriend … ***who was in jail! *** [She wanted to be near him because, as the story goes, “he was the only person who ever treated me nice.”] Blindly following the “do not judge” rule prevented the caseworker from denying the client something that would undoubtedly end up contributing to her own self-destruction.

This “do not judge” rule came up in our discussion just this morning, and I reminded the other members of “The Bus Ticket to Hell.” I also asked if the Society would pay for an abortion because some woman said she “needed” it. Obviously, it wouldn’t; but, I reminded them, it would have to “judge” to reach that conclusion.

I believe God gave us the capability to judge so that we could recognize evil and make the correct decisions. Isn’t this what your conscience is for? If I’m wrong, please explain why.

 

[sedonaman]

Its strange. The Palestinians are saying, “we were here first, the Jews should leave.” Who was in India first? The Hindus, or the Muslims? …

History doesn’t start until the day Muslims take over. islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49:intolerable-life-of-dhimmis-in-19th-century-damascus&catid=22:jacob

 

[sedonaman]

Not to get educated but to learn what the church says about Islam. …

You have made this claim several times in this thread but have yet to go find something [anything], read it, and come back with some comments we can discuss. Information is not that hard to find. For example, did you know there is an on-line Catholic Encyclopedia ? [This is, after all, the Information Super Highway.]

Here is something written by St. Thomas Aquinas.

How about St. John of Damascus ?

These are not long; you can read them in a few minutes.

If you don’t bother reading, then we will consider you insincere and be confirmed in our suspicion that you are not really who you say you are, but just another Muslim come here to gum up the works.

 

[pjk123]

Unofficially ,India holds largest Muslim population including illegal immigrants from islam-struck countries like bangladesh,pakistan etc.
Hindus or Non-Muslims cannot pretty much do much to form laws to prevent the proliferation of this death cult here.also ,the country is democratic and very secular.government even sponsors moslems trip to hajja to mekka.

While ,Right Wing Hindu Radicals have formed due to this ugly Islam cult which is in constant war against secular Indian Society.Saudi Arabia funds the terrorists here.Pakistan does the terror attacks here by the Jihadis like 26/11 bombay terror attack.Poor Indians are fed up of islam and terror.Every Big cities had targetted by muslim terrorists before.They are against Democracy.
But these radical Hindu organizations are afraid of targetting the 20% muslim population(22 crores or 220million) in India.So, these Hindu Radicals targets Christians and Catholics.The Thing is ,Christianity Have to Spread the Gospel and Hindus cannot afford loss of their believers.But There are many christians in India who doesnot reveal their christian identity openly due to persecution -especially in north india.

But ,above all there are a majority of Indian Muslims who have benefitted living in a secular country and despises the radical Muslim thought.These Muslims are not too Religious.If they ever turn to koran ,expect terrorists.

 

[slyboots]

Slybots

The old testament said things like, eye for an eye, and stone the adulterers. Jesus said love, he saved the adulterers and put an end to eye for an eye.

This means we are to ignore false teachings and correct the teachers.

“let him be accursed” well you make a good point, but how are we supposed to know ST Paul wasn’t talking about misfortune, or damnation and not hate, it doesn’t exactly say, let us accurse them, does it?

HickmanJosh

Josh,
Yes we are new testament people. But when did God stop hating divorce?
Or A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked imaginations, et that are swift in running to mischief, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren? Or making a false oath, plot evil?
And accursed?
What Is Accursed? adj. abominable; hateful

Give it up Josh. I am sorry. While we can love those who spitefully misuse us…we are to hate the evil system that encourages the sin.

 

[slyboots]

Of the verses above, the most powerful ones are from Surah (Chapter) 9. This is because the Quran states in multiple places that what is revealed most recently hold more authority than verses that came earlier. Surah 9 is the second last surah. The last surah was only three verses long and doesn’t say much. The Qur’an is not in chronological order, so the verses must be sorted out. Many websites provide the chronological order.

What’s your point? They all encourage violence. Here is surah 9. Not really very encouraging of peace with non-muslims if you ask me.

ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobe009.htm

 

[HickmanJosh]

You have made this claim several times in this thread but have yet to go find something [anything], read it, and come back with some comments we can discuss. Information is not that hard to find. For example, did you know there is an on-line Catholic Encyclopedia ? [This is, after all, the Information Super Highway.]

Here is something written by St. Thomas Aquinas.

How about St. John of Damascus ?

These are not long; you can read them in a few minutes.

If you don’t bother reading, then we will consider you insincere and be confirmed in our suspicion that you are not really who you say you are, but just another Muslim come here to gum up the works.

Ok im guna go with what the catholic encyclopedia says. hers a link to it newadvent.org/cathen/10424a.htm

in ralation to Murder in Islam it says this:

Murder, manslaughter, and suicide are explicitly forbidden, although blood revenge is allowed. In case of personal injury, the law of retaliation is approved.

It says nothing of the distinction between Muslim and non Muslim.

as for mohamed it says

According to Sir William Muir, Marcus Dods, and some others, Mohammed was at first sincere, but later, carried away by success, he practised deception wherever it would gain his end. Koelle “finds the key to the first period of Mohammed’s life in Khadija, his first wife”, after whose death he became a prey to his evil passions. Sprenger attributes the alleged revelations to epileptic fits, or to “a paroxysm of cataleptic insanity”.

What Is Accursed? adj. abominable; hateful

Ok then you have me there.

and i am afraid i stand corrected on hate as it pertains to false ideology’s, stupid me:blush: newadvent.org/cathen/07149b.htm

Peace

HickmanJosh

 

[pismopal]

One could be from Mars and with nothing other than eyes,ears and a command of languages, quickly determine that islam and it’s more determined adherants, are poison to the human race. This is not meant to be insulting, it is meant to be succinct and truthful. Just read what muslims say here and square that with the actual events in the world…not just the middle east…the world.

 

[slyboots]

God be praised Josh. I do believe you got it.

 

[ZAKI]

One could be from Mars and with nothing other than eyes,ears and a command of languages, quickly determine that islam and it’s more determined adherants, are poison to the human race. This is not meant to be insulting, it is meant to be succinct and truthful. Just read what muslims say here and square that with the actual events in the world…not just the middle east…the world.

Muahahahahaaa! I am poison! :egyptian:

wasalam

 

[Agabriel]

Muahahahahaaa! I am poison! :egyptian:

wasalam

Well, that was much better than the usual…
http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/428e73fabb6a902c