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Contra_Mundum_1
Guest
In my experience this counts as arguments with contemporary atheists.
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Try these re Dawkins:
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SGWessells
Guest
Well, to be fair, a lot of our “arguments” are no better. They are sincere and well-intentioned, but consist of asking Evolutionist:In my experience this counts as arguments with contemporary atheists.
What do you know of Sister Faustine? NOTHING
What do you know of Fatime? NOTHING
What do you know about my dreams, in which God appeared to me? NOTHING
While I do not doubt that such reading and experiences are deeply moving and meaningful to those who experienced and posted about them, they would not have moved me an inch when I was fighting God (for Evolutionist is fighting the call of God, although he or she doesn’t know it yet). For experiences are only meaningful to the ones who experience them. To others, they are secondhand reporting, like the events of the Gospels. Those who are not inclined toward the belief they manifest will find some other explanation, like delusion, wishful thinking, or “dreams? You gotta be kidding!” Posts that concentrate on actual evidence which Evolutionist can also investigate would, IMHO, be more useful.
As for Dawkins, I have read The God Delusion, The Blind Watchmaker, and The Greatest Show on Earth; and while his knowledge of zoology is impressive, although theologically inconclusive, his knowledge of theology is childish. Anyone who thinks answering “God made everything” with “Well, who made God (nyah, nyah, nyah)” is a crushing refutation simply doesn’t understand the argument at all. The whole point of the argument is to show rationally how there must be a self-existent, eternal being; in short, that nobody made God, but He exists anyway, and here’s why. Dawkins’ rejoinder shows that he hasn’t even grasped the point he is dismissing. And this is the modern apostle of reason?
As for Hawking, the fact that there are so many geniuses who have accepted Catholicism, yet Evolutionist disagrees with them all, shows that Evolutionist only equates intelligence with truth when it agrees with his or her position. How intelligent is that?
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InvisibleWorld
Guest
Educate yourself:Hello, I have come here to further my knowledge, nothing less nothing more. I dont want any grief from anyone but I have a few questions for the believers here…
Why do you still believe in God? The evidence for evolution is undeniable, humans were created by nothing more than evolution chance, just like apes, tigers and neanderathals.
A good explanation for this is neanderathals, they believed in an afterlife (which doesn’t exist) and now humans believe in it, showing us humans are basically just smart neanderathals.
HIGHLY Intelligent scientist Stephen Hawking has shown that God wasn’t needed to create the universe, it came out of chance.
The bible - Evidence shows that it is a book of contradictory fables and myths (Eg. Adam and Eve), Jesus existed but he wasnt God, his disciples realised he wasnt the messiah and God so they morphed the story into a religion where Jesus was the son of God and died for our sins.
Jesus was a Jew, and Jews then and now dont believed in an afterlife.
Science has shown the brain conrols everything we feel, think and do… there is no need for a soul or spirit, is is all mythology.
I would like replies or even if you want to rebutt my arguments, feel free. I am looking for a mature conversation.
The God Delusion
Session 1: War of the World Views
ADULT FAITH EDUCATION SERIES
basilica.org/pages/adult_faith_files/The_God_Delusion1.pdf
basilica.org/pages/adult_faith_files/The_God_Delusion2.pdf
basilica.org/pages/adult_faith_files/The_God_Delusion3.pdf
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Evolutionist
Guest
Wow amazing read here! In a matter of days I have went from Atheist to Agnostic!
However, still when I use my common sense I believe that when the brain shuts down, thats it, over. And there is no afterlife.
However, still when I use my common sense I believe that when the brain shuts down, thats it, over. And there is no afterlife.
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kimmielittle
Guest
Great Post!! :clapping::clapping:
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Common sense tells more that there’s more to my awareness and my existence than a large piece of tissue in my skull.
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scoobydoo6v92
Guest
You know what you may be right. Your brain shuts off and then that’s it. Please please speak for yourself on this issue. Because that don’t apply to me thank you BUT NO THANK YOU!!! You can beleive God away all you want but sorry he is still there. You sound real young and as they say youth is wasted on the young how true how true. BUT when life kicks you in the can a few times and when you start to live life maybe you get a good dose of common sense and understand a little more and learn that there is more to our existance than this worldy hell. How dark and hopeless to not believe in a loving triune God. I understand where you are coming from and I also understand athiests and I pray that athiests see the light. I am not an athiestaphobe (Is that a word??? now it is
) I pray for you and sometimes former athiests are great Christians. I hope you become one. God bless Scoob.
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Nevermore22
Guest
Perhaps if you replied to some of the responses to your statements in the OP, and read what the posters had to write in return, you might become a believer!
I suggest you read Mere Christianity. (This is an online version of the text. You have to scroll down a bit until you get to the start.) C. S. Lewis was an atheist before becoming a Christian, and eventually wrote some of Christianity’s greatest works. He was an Anglican, but this book is still a great introduction to the faith.
In Christ through Mary,
Nevermore
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Evolutionist
Guest
I have read both the bible and quran. It is all mythology.
There is no afterlife, just accept it. Jesus never existed as a god, just a good man. My sister is a molecular biologist. When we die its over.
Jesus was around 2000 years ago. Can you not see the bible is a joke?
There is no afterlife, just accept it. Jesus never existed as a god, just a good man. My sister is a molecular biologist. When we die its over.
Jesus was around 2000 years ago. Can you not see the bible is a joke?
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maryjk
Guest
Wow, your arguments have won me over.
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EricFilmer
Guest
Why?
Why should I accept that there is no afterlife simply because it is the opinion of you (and apparently your sister) that there isn’t one?
Good in what sense? Are you saying that he was, perhaps, a good moral preacher?
If Jesus is not God then he was not a good man (in the sense of being a good moral preacher). If he is not Lord, then he was either a liar or a lunatic. This is the argument that C.S. Lewis makes in Mere Christianity, so, like Nevermore22, I recommend that book for you to read.
Does your sister pretend to know all about the mysteries of life? As a microbiologist, can she create life out of nothing? The answer to both these questions is obviously, “no.” Therefore, microbiology cannot tell us whether or not there is an afterlife, so neither can microbiologists.
Moreover, why say “when we die it’s over”? From a scientific perspective, when I die does the energy and matter that composed my body cease to exist? No. So both science and Christianity agree that it is not “over” when we die, we simply argue the nature and extent of what continues to exist.
And what has that got to do with anything?
Nope.
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scoobydoo6v92
Guest
There have been proofs that state your stand on religion is in error. There is nothing that can be said when you deal with someone that lacks common scense. Speak for yourself we have an afterlife and it has been proven. There is nothing even Peter Kreeft can say that will convince a closed mind like yours. God bless and good bye.
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Defender1
Guest
You came here to debate obviously and not further your education . You have not accepted my challenge .You have proven to be more closed minded (leading to irrational thinking ) then Dawkins (who is scared to debater a protestant debater Craig) I have read both books and The Quran without is a copycat for the most part of the bible and other writings with fictional spin .The Bible holds weight to it and can be backed by Archeology . You forget at times to say “My opinion is” An atheist must prove that there is no God in which they cannot because there is too much out there that suggests there is . All one really needs at the end of the day is common sense .Your opinion is sad and makes me want to pray for you .But will he answer a prayer for one who rejects him? The Bible says that if you reject him he rejects you . SO next time you throw your opinion (thats all it is ) around make sure your state"My opinion is …" Further my education lol. Accept the challenge and go to my blog , you may learn something you did not know before.
defendingthefaith-frankie.blogspot.com
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Nevermore22
Guest
So, you aren’t going to respond to the replies?
Have you even read any of the other posts? And what does molecular biology have to do with the afterlife?
Why does the fact that Christ lived 2000 years ago make the Bible a joke? Plato lived over 300 years before Christ, but his Republic isn’t a joke?
Are you really here for honest dialogue, or just to spew out opinions as facts? I believe it is the latter, and unless you prove to me otherwise, I think I will have to bow out of this thread.
In Christ through Mary,
Nevermore
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Lui
Guest
It was kind of obvious from the start that Evolutionist was just here to mock religion.
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PennyinCanada
Guest
I know a grandma who was married many many years to an alcoholic. At some point he quit drinking and changed his life. He knew God broke the bondage of that slavery and was grateful for the power of God to give him a second chance in life. To live, to love, to bless others. No argument of “God does not exist” would matter to him as he knew the One Who set him free. That’s why Christ came, to set captives free.
His wife had terrible arthritis and she asked some friends to pray over her. She was told by one person praying that she held unforgiveness in her heart. She made an act of her will to release the resentment and hurt of all those years of living with an alcoholic to Christ. (THAT is an amazing grace in itself!) Then an amazing thing happened. Her arthritis “peeled off her like a banana”. Christ set another person free and she knows without a doubt Who freed her.
The power of God is in those words of the Bible, there for whoever wishes to draw from it’s treasure house. You make me think of a person have the winning lottery ticket but never cashed it, because “it can’t be a winner” and my sister said it wasn’t. Rather than listening to what other people say, pick up and read the New Testament for yourself. See for yourself rather than read what have others say about it. *The Author *is real and He knit you in your mother’s womb. He has a plan and purpose for your life. Time to quit fooling around and find out what that is!
His wife had terrible arthritis and she asked some friends to pray over her. She was told by one person praying that she held unforgiveness in her heart. She made an act of her will to release the resentment and hurt of all those years of living with an alcoholic to Christ. (THAT is an amazing grace in itself!) Then an amazing thing happened. Her arthritis “peeled off her like a banana”. Christ set another person free and she knows without a doubt Who freed her.
The power of God is in those words of the Bible, there for whoever wishes to draw from it’s treasure house. You make me think of a person have the winning lottery ticket but never cashed it, because “it can’t be a winner” and my sister said it wasn’t. Rather than listening to what other people say, pick up and read the New Testament for yourself. See for yourself rather than read what have others say about it. *The Author *is real and He knit you in your mother’s womb. He has a plan and purpose for your life. Time to quit fooling around and find out what that is!
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theistgal
Guest
I’ve read several of his books, and I read him when I was still a skeptic, too.
Frankly, I think he is a really good writer who makes a few good points, but tends to rely too much on his own opinion.
The late, great Michael Spencer, aka the Internet Monk, wrote a good column about Bart Ehrman and his books, called “Who’s Afraid of Bart Ehrman?”
Among other things, he writes:
Let me know what you think (assuming you’re not afraid to read someone who disagrees with you).
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Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
I’m reading one of Bart Ehrman’s books now (God’s Problem: How the Bible fails to answer our most important question - why we suffer). I’m not really convinced by what I’ve read so far and I actually don’t want to believe in God. He seems to me more as a man in despair (evidenced by his abundant use of personal anecdotes) than an atheistic theologian. I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if we hear about his reversion in the future.I’ve read several of his books, and I read him when I was still a skeptic, too.
Frankly, I think he is a really good writer who makes a few good points, but tends to rely too much on his own opinion.
The late, great Michael Spencer, aka the Internet Monk, wrote a good column about Bart Ehrman and his books, called “Who’s Afraid of Bart Ehrman?”
Let me know what you think (assuming you’re not afraid to read someone who disagrees with you).
Mr. Ehrman asks certain questions that are easily answered, but at least on the surface seem to be literary nuclear bombs exploding the credibility of the bible. For example, Mr. Ehrman, when discussing the topic of free will and suffering, asks why God sometimes counteracts the free will of people (e.g. when God destroyed the Egyptian armies of exodus; or when God counteracted Pilate’s decision to destroy Jesus through His resurrection from the dead) but not does not do so more of the time. Or in other words, “why didn’t God counteract the gunman on the street, or the terrorists who hijacked the plane and caused 9/11, but was willing to counteract the free will of the Egyptian armies or Pilate”.
Seems like a finisher? Something that will make Christians lose sleep at night, right? Wrong. Mr. Ehrman makes the mistake in arguing that free will is a consequentialist doctrine. In more human terms, Mr. Ehrman believes that if an investor invests $10,000 into a business and then loses the $10,000 because of the business failing, then the investor had no free will. That makes no sense whatsoever. Free will is not a consequentialist doctrine - it does not focus on the effects of your decisions. On the other hand, it focuses on your ability to make a decision. To that end, God didn’t counteract the free will of the Egyptian armies, or Pilate at all. Instead, He counteracted the consequences of the decisions made by the Egyptian armies and Pilate. Massive difference. But Mr. Ehrman conflates the two, and unfortunately, you’ll get atheists putting this erroneous mistake across even though it has been appropriately addressed.
But I hope whatever is troubling Mr. Ehrman comes to a quick end. I can certainly sympathize with him, because I’m tasting Hell.
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