Why do you think forced healthcare is immoral?

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I have a totally different take on the issue; the real question underlying this one is: Do you think we, as a society are morally obliged to care for the sick?

If the answer is yes, then the question morality of being forced to purchase health care is moot. If the answer is no, why or why not?

With every right comes a responsibility and if I think (as our laws seem to) that a sick person has a right to be treated, then they also have a responsibility to contribute towards that care by purchasing insurance.

I see no loss of liberty here whatsoever. People act like they are going to be paying for someone else’s health care without any consideration for the fact that they are also going to get sick someday and need care.

How moral would it be for the government to allow people to opt out of health care, as in not requiring them to purchase insurance BUT instead requiring them to wear a tag that says: If I get sick, don’t care for me?
Not everyone will be forced to buy insurance. Only those in the middle class and up.
The only punitive aspects are for those who would have hoped to otherwise get a tax refund. There is no method of collection fro those who are not paying their fair share in taxes. This is purley a resource redistribution scheme.

Also, this is not about buying insurance, it is about being forced to buy the government premium plans. The administration now has the ability to put any and all types of new features into the plan under the overly loose umbrella of health care and we are forced to pay for it whether we want it or not. (those who refuse to work for a living are of coursed exempt.)

There is difference between emergency medical services required to stabilize someone and other non emergency costs. If someone refuses to pay, there is no reason the medical institution should be forced to keep giving them additional treatments for free. (we outlawed slavery nearly 150 years ago.
 
The only thing I think is “immoral” (using the term very loosely here) about caring for the sick is forcing ppl to buy private insurance without a more competitive public option.
Look at cars for clunkers, the post office, and the joint strike fighter program. A government run option would never be competitive (except through subsidies or rationing).

Did you ever wonder why agencies like the United Way, AARP, etc have not had non profit insurance companies to compete with the for profit companies? it is because the profit driven motive of comercial companies have driven the costs down so far the non profits just can’t compete.
 
You speak of immorality, yet we are essentially a pen stroke from government funded abortion. This president may have agreed to restrict funding but whose to say the next won’t strip that away. It’s not whether it is immoral to give people healthcare it is whether it is immoral to force anything upon anyone. As I previously stated, if God doesn’t impede on free will than why is it that the government feels obligated? Government takes grace from charity. They have created a dependence on one more aspect of life, well actually two, also with education. Why do people accept this notion that the ends justify the means because this whole bill stands on bribes and kickbacks, yet you want to argue morality? Everything they do anymore furthers the abdication of responsibility.
 
But we’d also be passing on to them the security and protection of access to healthcare. Throughout the modern western world, only in the United States can you go bankrupt over medical bills.
China isn’t going to pay for our bills forever.
This is a good argument against war, because war only leave pain and suffering, but the mere cost shouldn’t derail a program that could end suffering.
War also frees us from oppression. Last I checked this nation would be half German speaking and half Japanese speaking had we not intervened in World War II.
Yes, I asked a friend in the nursing field, and she is afraid it will over work doctors and nurses and cause them to retire early. Such is there prerogative in free society. She’s afraid it will hurt care for everyone and do little to improve the situation for those who are currently uninsured. Keyword is afraid.

That’s only one opinion, I’m sure if you had asked more they you would have found a few in favor and far more opposed.
runningdude;6512149:
There may be growing pains, but it is unacceptable to do nothing improve access for 30-50 million of the most voiceless and defenseless of the nation. A friend of mine ended up on streets once and almost died of a simple leg infection. She was living in the richest city in the world at the time.
No one in America is voiceless, your voice is your vote, right to assemble, petition and free speech. Also how many of those “defenseless” people are like my wife (girlfriend at the time) a year ago who didn’t buy insurance because she didn’t need it being young, healthy and short on money wanted to put it toward college. Had there been a greater concern she would have gotten a job and gotten healthcare or in her financial situation probably would have been eligible for MEDICAID. If 30 million were in that much need where was MEDICAID, that’s a government program for the poor is it not?
Growing pains. Things don’t change over night. Look how long it took to implement workplace safety standards - at least a century. We need to start now to improve life for future generations.
Half of the argument made by politicians was the amount of people dying in the streets. If there are these, “growing pains”, why is it that this whole system doesn’t start until after the next election yet we had to pass this before Easter.
And seniors who can’t afford prescriptions here go to Canada for lower prices. It works both ways. If anything, we should be limiting care to foreigners to improve access and availability to Americans.
Yet we cut more money from MEDICARE to pay for this debacle.
Tanning booths possibly contribute to skin cancer, raising health care by absorbing capacity away from treatable diseases.
I agree with you here, the sun is free and it seems that we are moving more toward worshiping our bodies when we are too focused on external appearance.
Your point. Government supposed to protect its citizens. Health insurance offers protection from physical and financial ruin if you get sick or injured. I cracked a vertebrae in my neck by fainting - the first time I ever fainted. Fortunately it is healing properly, but even the most careful can get injured through no fault of their own.
Correction, the government is supposed to protect your freedoms not create rights because society has changed. Why do you think the Catholic Church has survived for 2000 years, my guess is because it didn’t change with society.
It is a myth that lawsuits are the primary reason for high health care costs. The American medical ***. admitted that malpractice insurance is less then 1% of all business expenses born by doctors. If I doctor ruins your life by making a mistake, why shouldn’t you be compensated?
Understanding the immoral society that we live in shows that too many are out for money and looking for somebody else to blame for their problems. It wasn’t that long ago that a lady sued McDonald’s for spilling coffee in her lap.
 
Not everyone will be forced to buy insurance. Only those in the middle class and up.
The only punitive aspects are for those who would have hoped to otherwise get a tax refund. There is no method of collection fro those who are not paying their fair share in taxes. This is purley a resource redistribution scheme.

Also, this is not about buying insurance, it is about being forced to buy the government premium plans. The administration now has the ability to put any and all types of new features into the plan under the overly loose umbrella of health care and we are forced to pay for it whether we want it or not. (those who refuse to work for a living are of coursed exempt.)

There is difference between emergency medical services required to stabilize someone and other non emergency costs. If someone refuses to pay, there is no reason the medical institution should be forced to keep giving them additional treatments for free. (we outlawed slavery nearly 150 years ago.
This is where the whole argument falls apart for me: it’s ok to give emergency medical care to someone without insurance but not okay to help them acquire insurance, which would prevent us from having to foot the bill for their expensive ER care - I’m getting dizzy just putting it into words…
 
This is where the whole argument falls apart for me: it’s ok to give emergency medical care to someone without insurance but not okay to help them acquire insurance, which would prevent us from having to foot the bill for their expensive ER care - I’m getting dizzy just putting it into words…
The difference is simple you give people the bennefit of the doubt when determining if they can pay. when someone is brought into the ER who is unconcious or wasn’t carrying proof of insurance you don’t want to turn them away. However, when someone is concious and responsive but refuses to pay, it is a completely different story.

We have been offering people the means to acquire health insurance for years, we give everyone a free education, We give them essentially a guaranteed job in the military, and everyone has the right to get a job. With those you can get insurance. There is no reason to force the working class to subsidize insurance for the welfare class.
 
The difference is simple you give people the bennefit of the doubt when determining if they can pay. when someone is brought into the ER who is unconcious or wasn’t carrying proof of insurance you don’t want to turn them away. However, when someone is concious and responsive but refuses to pay, it is a completely different story.

We have been offering people the means to acquire health insurance for years, we give everyone a free education, We give them essentially a guaranteed job in the military, and everyone has the right to get a job. With those you can get insurance. There is no reason to force the working class to subsidize insurance for the welfare class.
With an education and a job everyone can get insurance…Hmm, exactly what planet do you live on?
 
They don’t care about forced health care being immoral.

The think being forced to help pay for someone ele’s health care is immoral.
 
Don’t you care that the cost will sky rocket for those who are actually paying and many will loose their jobs and will have their rates go to unaffordable levels?
You completely ignored my entire statement. How can I dialog when it’s so one sided?
 
The difference is simple you give people the bennefit of the doubt when determining if they can pay. when someone is brought into the ER who is unconcious or wasn’t carrying proof of insurance you don’t want to turn them away. However, when someone is concious and responsive but refuses to pay, it is a completely different story.

We have been offering people the means to acquire health insurance for years, we give everyone a free education, We give them essentially a guaranteed job in the military, and everyone has the right to get a job. With those you can get insurance. There is no reason to force the working class to subsidize insurance for the welfare class.
What means? I’ve never been able to afford it, ever. I am not qualified for military service, so there’s no way I can use that to work. So exactly what the heck are you talking about here? Neither of those things apply to me or millions others in the country. I’m too sick to work full time, too healthy to get disability/medicaid. I live in constant untreatable chronic pain (That means painkillers don’t work, so don’t tell me to just suck it up and take an aspirin like you have in the past), so I can’t get a second job. Exactly what’s so hard to understand about that?
 
Why were the restrictions on Medicare in the first place?
Each state is allowed to do whatever it wants for medicare/caid, within some guidelines from the federal government. Being poor isn’t enough in most states. You have to be disabled, or be a single parent etc. The guidelines have been in place ever since it started as far as I am aware. Probably it was put in place to control costs, or a compromise when Republicans warned about people abusing the system instead of working. Of course that simply leaves behind people that cannot work enough.
 
Each state is allowed to do whatever it wants for medicare/caid, within some guidelines from the federal government. Being poor isn’t enough in most states. You have to be disabled, or be a single parent etc. The guidelines have been in place ever since it started as far as I am aware. Probably it was put in place to control costs, or a compromise when Republicans warned about people abusing the system instead of working. Of course that simply leaves behind people that cannot work enough.
I thought you were on a waiting list? Or that you could have been put on a waiting list had your income been lower?
 
I thought you were on a waiting list? Or that you could have been put on a waiting list had your income been lower?
I make too much to be on the waiting list. If my income was any lower, I would have to pick between medical needs and food/rent. Not doing either would be very bad very quickly for obvious reasons. The waiting list is several years long, which means I would have to survive that long without one of those things. That is highly unlikely.
 
I make too much to be on the waiting list. If my income was any lower, I would have to pick between medical needs and food/rent. Not doing either would be very bad very quickly for obvious reasons. The waiting list is several years long, which means I would have to survive that long without one of those things. That is highly unlikely.
My point is that the restrictions are not the only thing keeping people off Medicare; lack of money to pay for their care is.

If we have a lack of money for care now, where will the money come from in the future?
 
My point is that the restrictions are not the only thing keeping people off Medicare; lack of money to pay for their care is.

If we have a lack of money for care now, where will the money come from in the future?
Yes, but the money’s already being lost. Do you think I just sit around and let myself die? Obviously not, I’m here still living. I go to the ER, or I’m brought to it when I’m sick and unconscious. I cannot pay the bills. I either work with the hospital to pay some significantly reduced some, or I file bankruptcy. The financial loss is already in play.
 
Yes, but the money’s already being lost. Do you think I just sit around and let myself die? Obviously not, I’m here still living. I go to the ER, or I’m brought to it when I’m sick and unconscious. I cannot pay the bills. I either work with the hospital to pay some significantly reduced some, or I file bankruptcy. The financial loss is already in play.
In my opinion, the economics of the bill which was passed are going to be really bad. I would much rather have seen a bill which would have covered people in your type of situation, which would have cost us all a lot less and would have been much less intrusive.

I hope that I am wrong and that this one will work out for you tho, as I sympathize with your situation.
 
In my opinion, the economics of the bill which was passed are going to be really bad. I would much rather have seen a bill which would have covered people in your type of situation, which would have cost us all a lot less and would have been much less intrusive.

I hope that I am wrong and that this one will work out for you tho, as I sympathize with your situation.
Yes, it’s called a public option or drastically expanding medicaid, which are both things the GOP and more conservative democrats would never have supported. Thus making it completely nonviable politically.
 
With an education and a job everyone can get insurance…Hmm, exactly what planet do you live on?
Oh I forgot to mention a good work ethic. Unfortunately laziness negates the potential everyone is born with.
 
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