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Singinbeauty
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Gotta say, that is a little offensive…The same reason God allowed Satan?
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Stouts989
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Because God allowed heresy to creep into the RCC.
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SteveGC
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Interesting, seeing as how, in Christianity, the concept of “heresy” is only known as those practices which are in conflict with The Catholic Church. Without the Catholic Church, there is no such thing as “heresy”, because you have to have a set standard of orthodoxy from which to deviate, in order for heresy to exist. That standard has always been Catholicism. Those heresies that “crept in” to the Church were denounced and removed from Catholic orthodoxy so that Truth could persist without error.
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Stouts989
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Sorry you believe this. The Bible…the Word of GOD! is the standard…not some church who think they control the Word of God. Scripture is the ruler, there for the name “canon”. Scripture defines heresy not the Catholic church. Even the Catholic church is subjected to the Word of God.
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nancy_dalrymple
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Dear Singing beauty, do not fear, you are loved no matter what is said I love you, and if you are looking for God He is everywhere, yes even here. Sometimes words are said and they are not realy said to be harsh sometimes people dont understand, and can say things that can hurt, but i’ll bet if you ever needed help these same people would be there on the spot to help you. I know I would.
So continue and may Father God show us all how to be more loving, I know because i have caused hurt on some also and i didn’t mean to say what I said but I was over taken by the subject and conversation. God Bless you Love of Christ Nancy
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guanophore
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For the same reason He allows all evil, that greater good may come.
I assume this is offensive because of the implication that God’s creation of free will, for the angels (including Lucifer) and for mankind means that He also allows them to choose opposite of His desire (evil) and the implication is that the Reformation is “evil”.
Jesus did not want divisions and separations in His body. To the extent that they exist, His will is not fulfilled in us. You are right to be offended by that, as it is a reflection of the woundedness He also feels.
This is very true. All the original “reformers” were Latin Rite Catholics who fell into heretical doctrines.
Matt 7:15-16
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits.
We can see from the very first that the fruit of the Reformation is separation and division, and this fruit continues to abound to this day, into the hundreds of thousands.
Oh, don’t be sorry for us! We know that the Church came first, and then the Church produced the Bible. As a result, there is nothing in Scripture that contradicts the Catholic faith. They both come from the same Source.
Rightly understanding scripture is not about “control”. It is about clinging to the sound doctrine that was delivered by the Apostles.
You are right, there is a “ruler” or “canon” of Scripture. The Catholic Church created that “canon” based upon her beliefs (Sacred Tradition). Scripture cannot “define heresy” because this is an activity of persons, not writings, however Holy they may be. Jesus charged the Apostles with teaching, and they charged their successors. It is from them that we learn what is correct doctrine, and what is heresy.
The Catholic Church is subject to her Head, which is Christ, who is the Word of God. She is not subjected to your interpretations of scripture, or to the heresy of Sola Scriptura.
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ron77nyc
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The bible gives us the answer to “Why do you think God allowed Protestantism?” God will send messengers to other people and give them the Holy Spirit if His own people don’t believe.
Romans 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Philippians 1:15 Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; 16 the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; 17 the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice.
Acts 10:34 Opening his mouth, Peter said: “I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. 36 “The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)—
Romans 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Philippians 1:15 Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; 16 the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; 17 the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice.
Acts 10:34 Opening his mouth, Peter said: “I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. 36 “The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)—
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Christalone
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Your remark about protestants being a heresy is totally out of line and absolutely NON_CHRISTIAN, rude and insulting! Why is it that catholics always think they are better than other Christians.For the same reason that He allowed Gnosticism, Nestorianism, Arianism, and every other heresy - so that the Church would be moved to define its teachings even more clearly, and bring us even closer to a full understanding of Christ.
After all, if there had never been any heresies, there never would have been any Councils, and there are so many things that would be more difficult for us to understand, and to find out, because the definitions for them would not exist.
But iron sharpens iron, and fierce opposition forces us to clarify our teachings, and beak them down into small concepts, simple enough for everyone to understand them.
I have also noticed that competition improves the final product. A Catholic Church that is situated within walking distance of one or more Protestant churches tends to be a lot more orthodox in its teaching than one that has no such competition.
We are all equal in God’s eyes! The church is not a building or a denomination or a certain faith, the church is the body of born again followers of Christ.
No it’s disgusting and full of hatred!
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Singinbeauty
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Really it was just offensive because it was likening protestantism with satan…
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guanophore
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Well, that is not what she said, but you are correct in your statement here. Protestants can “be a heresy”. A heresy is a doctrine of faith that departs from what the Apostles believed and taught. While all Protestants embrace heresy, that does not MAKE them heretics. In fact, most are unable to qualify for this title, as they have never been taught the truth, so cannot fall away from it.
Calling heresy what it is is not unchristian. The Aposltes have done this from the beginning, as is recorded in the NT. Pointing out that beliefs espoused by Protestants is not intended to be rude and insulting at all. In fact, it is one of the main reasons we are here at CAF. Most people have been brought up believing these heresies, and don’t have any idea that what they were taught is inconsistent with what the Apostles taught.
I can’t speak to this, since I have never met any Catholics that think this, however, if you study some of the history of your faith, you will quickly find that all the denominations separated from the Catholic Church, which is the one founded by Christ. All the others are founded by men, who came along later and did not like or agree with one thing, or another. This divergence and separation continues to flourish to this day.
Yes, we are all equal in God’s eyes, as persons. However, not all the beliefs are equal, especially those that depart from the Apostolic Teaching. It is true that there is only One Body,but it does not have the unity for which Christ prayed. It is wounded, and fragmented.
No, it is the Truth, and it sometimes hurts. There is no need for hatred in it. What would be unloving would be to turn aside from Truth, and confirm our separated brethren in error.
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guanophore
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Yes, I can see how that comes across. It is similar in that God gave the angels free will, and some chose to depart from Him by using it. He gives humans free will. We can choose not to come to HIm at all, or after coming, to depart from Him. For me, the similarity is in the nature of Love for His creation. It was Love that created us with the ability to choose “otherwise”.
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aileron
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Obviously you can’t tell good “priest, rabbi, and minister” jokes without it.
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jargon631
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i dont think that god “allows or disallows” either protestantism or catholicism…i think that both are the results of people studying the same material and coming to different conclusions…i am an ex-sda, non-christian who beleives in a single, powerful creator(god, if u like)and i dont think that he will sentence someone to "an eternity of torment"(sound of thunder…lol)due to the fact that they are either protestant or catholic…the following, however, are things that i’m quite sure do get on his nerves:…using his name to bilk the faithful of their cash…using the office of the church to molest children…using his name to bully, badger, and otherwise control the faithful…using his name to create fear instead of love…fd…
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jargon631
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oh…thank you…thats perfect…lololol…fd…
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guanophore
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This is a very interesting perspective. I think it does often apply in Evangelical circles. However, the origin of Catholicism is not “study” but the revelation of God. The Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ, built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets. It exists as a result of God’s revelation of Himself in Christ to humanity, not as the result of “study”.
Hope you stay on CAF, jargon.i am an ex-sda, non-christian who beleives in a single, powerful creator(god, if u like)and i dont think that he will sentence someone to "an eternity of torment"(sound of thunder…lol)due to the fact that they are either protestant or catholic…the following, however, are things that i’m quite sure do get on his nerves:…using his name to bilk the faithful of their cash…using the office of the church to molest children…using his name to bully, badger, and otherwise control the faithful…using his name to create fear instead of love…fd…
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Christalone
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For the same reason that He allowed Gnosticism, Nestorianism, Arianism, and every other heresy - so that the Church would be moved to define its teachings even more clearly, and bring us even closer to a full understanding of Christ.
After all, if there had never been any heresies, there never would have been any Councils, and there are so many things that would be more difficult for us to understand, and to find out, because the definitions for them would not exist.
But iron sharpens iron, and fierce opposition forces us to clarify our teachings, and beak them down into small concepts, simple enough for everyone to understand them.
I have also noticed that competition improves the final product. A Catholic Church that is situated within walking distance of one or more Protestant churches tends to be a lot more orthodox in its teaching than one that has no such competition.
Thanks for further proving my point.
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SteveGC
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I see that you are not on Catholic Answers Forum in order to find Catholic answers. Is there something you would like to ask about the Catholic faith, that perhaps we can help you with? Something that perhaps you are confused about, or that you think we believe which may or may not be true? We’re always happy to help.
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guanophore
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I thought your point was that she called Protestants “heresies”, or something to that effect?
It is not right to charge the children of the Reformers with heresy, because in order to be a heretic, one must have been taught the truth, then willfully chosen to depart from it. This term can rightfully be applied to the orignal reformers and their disciples, but not to modern day Protestants. Your emotional reaction alone makes it clear that you do not believe this term should be applied to you, or to Protestants in general.
It seems that you have some important things to learn about your family history as a Christian. Members of CAF are not here to be rude to you, or to hurt your feelings. We are here to provide Catholic Answers. The answers that Catholics have given to the original post in this thread, for the most part, represent Catholic teaching. All Protestant denominations have departed from the doctrine taught by the Apostles to a greater or lesser degree.
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jargon631
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However, the origin of Catholicism is not “study” but the revelation of God. The Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ, built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets. It exists as a result of God’s revelation of Himself in Christ to humanity, not as the result of “study”.
hi guanaphore
hmmmm…isnt the bible considered to be the word of god?..if that is the case, wouldnt study of his word bring about a revelation from god?( i’m non-christian btw )…i was raised sda and we studied the apostles and prophets also…we just saw them through the skewed sda lense…i guess my larger point would be that christians can argue about prot/cath forever, but if there is a god, i dont think he’s that much of a hair-splitter…cordially…frederick
hi guanaphore
hmmmm…isnt the bible considered to be the word of god?..if that is the case, wouldnt study of his word bring about a revelation from god?( i’m non-christian btw )…i was raised sda and we studied the apostles and prophets also…we just saw them through the skewed sda lense…i guess my larger point would be that christians can argue about prot/cath forever, but if there is a god, i dont think he’s that much of a hair-splitter…cordially…frederick
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nancy_dalrymple
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Hi jargon, Can I ask you, do you believe in Jesus, and the diety of Jesus? You do believe in God a supreme being, is that it? Love of Christ Nancyi dont think that god “allows or disallows” either protestantism or catholicism…i think that both are the results of people studying the same material and coming to different conclusions…i am an ex-sda, non-christian who beleives in a single, powerful creator(god, if u like)and i dont think that he will sentence someone to "an eternity of torment"(sound of thunder…lol)due to the fact that they are either protestant or catholic…the following, however, are things that i’m quite sure do get on his nerves:…using his name to bilk the faithful of their cash…using the office of the church to molest children…using his name to bully, badger, and otherwise control the faithful…using his name to create fear instead of love…fd…
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