Why does God allow evil in the world?

[D_M]

OK, but I don’t see it as workable to say that evil doesn’t exist just because God uses it to bring about good. “God is not the author of sin”, the concept being that He allows but doesn’t create evil. And any victim of evil can tell us that it’s real. Otherwise it would seem unjustifiable for God to hate it and for His justice to address it by eternal separation from the good.

Hi Fhansen,

I do see it as a workable… although maybe it’s not workable in the language I’m using… but I’ll try my best…

i) God is not the author of sin. This is true, and He does not do anything which is against His own will. His creation sins, but He does not.

-However, even though His creation sins, He nevertheless always works that sin towards a good purpose and therefore while His creation intends to do evil, God always makes it such that whatever they do can only work towards an ultimately good purpose, and in that sense there is not really such a thing as evil, for God does not tolerate anything to exist that does not work according to His purpose.

ii) Any of us who have been victims or who have perpetrated evil can tell that we are witnessing something which is opposed to what is right and good, and it is objectively something which was intended to be opposed to what is right and good.

-However, it is often true that in the here and now we don’t really appreciate the meaning to all of our suffering and temptation. We know and can see that these things we call evil were intended against God’s purpose now, although we can’t always see God’s plan and how it is that He is working all of these things for a good purpose even though they were not intended for a good purpose; for that requires the eyes of faith.

People truly and objectively intend things against what is right and good, but they always fail to achieve anything that truly or ultimately goes against what is right and good, but only seemingly.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him,”

iii) God is angry against sinners and punishes them for what they do. How can He be angry against someone if there isn’t really such a thing as evil?

• Intending to do evil is different from doing evil. God is angry and punishes people who intend to do evil, and they really do intend to do evil, however, they never really succeed in doing what they intend because God always works all things for a good purpose.

Even their impotent free choice to do evil is worked in God’s plan for good.

God Bless,

 

[jkiernan56]

Hi jkiernan,

I certainly hope it’s not heresy! If it is, may the Lord correct me, Amen.

I do mean to express that evil doesn’t really exist, although perhaps not in the manner people would ordinarily interpret when I say so. I don’t know how to express this idea with words, although I think that the alternatives you have offered fail to capture what I mean.

The traditional understanding, as in your first post to me, is that God takes good out of evil and therefore He allows evil to exist… does that make sense though? It does in one manner, however, at another level it seems almost as though we are suggesting that God requires evil to exist in order to work a greater good, and that would seem to imply that God could not have worked that greater good unless the evil existed, and if that were true then God is impotent because then there is something He is unable to do.

God is all-good, however, we all choose to do evil. Crucifying Our Lord is an example of evil which humans have chosen to do, however, God works all things for His own good purpose, and so even though we choose to do evil, He doesn’t actually allow evil to exist, but rather He takes even our sins and works them for His own good purpose. As St Paul states:

Romans 8:28 We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.

It is not that He ‘draws good out of evil’ (ie. in the sense that He needs something He doesn’t want in order to get a greater good) but rather He turns what is intended to be evil by us sinners into something which is good and never allows anything to be opposed to His purpose even if those who sinned against Him intended it to be so.

Evil doesn’t really exist then… we choose to do evil, but God doesn’t let that evil come into existence, but works it all for a good purpose which is shared by Him and His saints.

God Bless,

DM, I wholeheartedly disagree with your premise that Evil had to exist in order for God to bring the greater good out of it. I for one do not believe that the fall of the human race HAD to happen. Yes, the Lord did “allow” the evil one to tempt man, but man did have a free will … and if it wasn’t free will … man could not have made the wrong choice … and had man not made the real choice, God’s plan for you and I to be His adopted children would still have been the same … how God would have brought us into that Greater Good is beyond me … but I wholeheartedly disagree with your premise that Evil had to exist in order for God to bring the greater good out of it. But given the real world, and God already knowing the consequences of giving man a free will, God in His Wisdom also had a plan to take away the sin of the world and to bring you and I and the world into that relationship of adopted children of God … life in this world … and an eternal relationship with God forever …

When God let the cat out of the bag, he already had a plan of how He was going to get the cat back in … if God could not have gotten the cat back in … He would not have created the world … or given man free will … but God’s love and grace are more powerful than any other created thing … and evil cannot defeat God’s goodness … that we see in the cross of Christ … and grace that is still recreating the world … from within our hearts … and wills … and minds

 

[Brady01]

I know it’s a horrible thing to even imagine never mind say it online…but it is turning people away from God…why did God not stop Hitler from his medical experiments in the holocaust. I did a research topic on it for history. And I can tell you I would not like to be doing that research topic AGAIN…it completely horrible in every factor of humanity to live on this world…some example were of his medical treatment on children was frizzing children in frizzing water to death…injecting stuff into their eyes to change the colour in them…it’s horrible to think about. But why did God say that child are closer to God that adults??? When this horrible man was doing this stuff to poor children. It would have been better if they were gassed to death than letting them died in such a manner to death some child died within days or maybe weeks dying in pain

Does God really exist??? If yes why did god let this happen to child especially…and the killing of millions of other victims including people with disabilities

Is God cruel?? He must me if he let this happen to a world of his own…

(I hope noting bad happens to me now after saying this stuff…i most think about it)

 

[Matariel]

I know it’s a horrible thing to even imagine never mind say it online…but it is turning people away from God…why did God not stop Hitler from his medical experiments in the holocaust. I did a research topic on it for history. And I can tell you I would not like to be doing that research topic AGAIN…it completely horrible in every factor of humanity to live on this world…some example were of his medical treatment on children was frizzing children in frizzing water to death…injecting stuff into their eyes to change the colour in them…it’s horrible to think about. But why did God say that child are closer to God that adults??? When this horrible man was doing this stuff to poor children. It would have been better if they were gassed to death than letting them died in such a manner to death some child died within days or maybe weeks dying in pain

Does God really exist??? If yes why did god let this happen to child especially…and the killing of millions of other victims including people with disabilities

Is God cruel?? He must me if he let this happen to a world of his own…

(I hope noting bad happens to me now after saying this stuff…i most think about it)

Why did God die a horrible, terrible, excruciatingly painful death on the Cross, after being beaten and whipped, His blood gushing out of every pore?

 

[jkiernan56]

I know it’s a horrible thing to even imagine never mind say it online…but it is turning people away from God…why did God not stop Hitler from his medical experiments in the holocaust. I did a research topic on it for history. And I can tell you I would not like to be doing that research topic AGAIN…it completely horrible in every factor of humanity to live on this world…some example were of his medical treatment on children was frizzing children in frizzing water to death…injecting stuff into their eyes to change the colour in them…it’s horrible to think about. But why did God say that child are closer to God that adults??? When this horrible man was doing this stuff to poor children. It would have been better if they were gassed to death than letting them died in such a manner to death some child died within days or maybe weeks dying in pain

Does God really exist??? If yes why did god let this happen to child especially…and the killing of millions of other victims including people with disabilities

Is God cruel?? He must me if he let this happen to a world of his own…

(I hope noting bad happens to me now after saying this stuff…i most think about it)

Very valid questions. Here is another one - why did God allow His eternal Son to be crucified and put to death on a cross? If this was the 2nd Person of the Trinity as orthodox Christians believe … how and why would God allow this to happen to His Divine Son?

What about the two men who were crucified with Christ - one of His left and one on His right? What were the dispositions of those crucified with Christ? Two different kinds of hearts and minds … and only one of the criminals found salvation on the cross …

 

[D_M]

DM, I wholeheartedly disagree with your premise that Evil had to exist in order for God to bring the greater good out of it. I for one do not believe that the fall of the human race HAD to happen. Yes, the Lord did “allow” the evil one to tempt man, but man did have a free will … and if it wasn’t free will … man could not have made the wrong choice … and had man not made the real choice, God’s plan for you and I to be His adopted children would still have been the same … how God would have brought us into that Greater Good is beyond me … but I wholeheartedly disagree with your premise that Evil had to exist in order for God to bring the greater good out of it. But given the real world, and God already knowing the consequences of giving man a free will, God in His Wisdom also had a plan to take away the sin of the world and to bring you and I and the world into that relationship of adopted children of God … life in this world … and an eternal relationship with God forever …

When God let the cat out of the bag, he already had a plan of how He was going to get the cat back in … if God could not have gotten the cat back in … He would not have created the world … or given man free will … but God’s love and grace are more powerful than any other created thing … and evil cannot defeat God’s goodness … that we see in the cross of Christ … and grace that is still recreating the world … from within our hearts … and wills … and minds

Hi jkiernan,

I don’t have a premise that evil is necessary for a greater good; I in fact agree with you that the fall of the human race did not have to happen.

My argument was rather that God doesn’t really let evil exist, because despite every sin His creation commits, God works all things to a very good purpose.

God Bless,

 

[jkiernan56]

Hi jkiernan,

I don’t have a premise that evil is necessary for a greater good; I in fact agree with you that the fall of the human race did not have to happen.

My argument was rather that God doesn’t really let evil exist, because despite every sin His creation commits, God works all things to a very good purpose.

God Bless,

While I agree that God is able to bring good out of evil, I’m afraid to say that because of free will … things will not turn out for good for some people … and with the cooperation of our will to God’s … God is then able to bring good out of evil for us who turn to Him for His Grace … so the bottom line is that God is NOT a giant Puppeteer pulling all the strings as if free will did not exist … free will does exist … and that is why evil does exist … and for those who accept God’s grace in their lives … things will work out for their good … but to those who reject God’s grace … I do not think things work out for their good … not everyone is going to heaven. You and I have not finished the race either … and we could if we willed … to reject God’s grace as well … you and I will NOT be forced to go to heaven … only those who want to be there will be there … it is NOT God who decides who goes to heaven and who doesn’t … although whoever does go to heaven does so because of the merits of Christs cross … you and I will be saved as long as we stay in the boat of Grace …

 

[jkiernan56]

you and I will be saved if we stay in the boat of Grace …

I wanted to add to this … that the Church is the boat of Grace … the sacraments etc … It is the Lord giving Himself to us through His Word, Sacraments, and through one another - members of His Body.

 

[D_M]

Hi Jkiernan,

You are right that many people will not inherit God’s good purpose to which He works all things, that fact is not itself something evil. It is in fact a good, not a good which was originally intended, but it was nevertheless a good, that many people will not inherit this state, as St Paul says:

Romans 9:20-23 But who are you, a man, to answer back to God? Will what is moulded say to its moulder, “Why have you made me thus?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for beauty and another for menial use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory,

It is ultimately a good thing that people go to hell and suffer eternal torments, because it is with the vessels of wrath that God makes known His power, and in order to make known the riches of His glory for the vessels of mercy.

Therefore it is not a good purpose that the vessels of wrath, among whom many of us will count, will themselves ever come to know, but it is still objectively a good purpose, and therefore I may still say that this is not really an evil.

Free will is not an answer for why evil exist. Free will is an answer for why we can choose to do evil, but not for why such corruption should be allowed to manifest from our choices.

If the crucifixion was evil, then how does free will explain this? For those who crucified Our Lord could have freely chosen to crucify Him, but God could have simply prevented them from carrying out their free choice and made the crucifixion not happen. He could have put an invisible shield around His Son that stopped them from carrying out their freely chosen purpose, He could have given them all paralysis, He could have done any number of things that would have no affect on their ability to freely chose which would simply make them impotent in their actions… He didn’t do any such thing, however.

Therefore God could have prevented the crucifixion without impinging our free will in any way, and if He wanted to do so and was capable of doing so, then why did He not do so? Since He cannot be incapable of doing so, the only explanation then is that He did not want to prevent it, but rather He wanted it to occur, because there was an hidden and very good purpose that the crucifixion of His Son would serve even if it could not, as much that we call evil is, be plainly perceived at the time.

God Bless,

 

[jbrown0059]

Many atheists/agnostics have questioned where did evil come from. Even some Christians in crisis have asked, “Why do bad things happen to good people?”

I personally have always liked the argument of St Thomas Aquinas that I became acquainted with when I was a young agnostic in college. It was actually taught to me by an atheistic philosophy professor. I think that life experience in itself makes the point.

So here it is:

Objection 1. It seems that God does not exist; because if one of two contraries be infinite, the other would be altogether destroyed. But the word “God” means that He is infinite goodness. If, therefore, God existed, there would be no evil discoverable; but there is evil in the world. Therefore God does not exist.

The reasoning:

The first and more manifest way is the argument from motion. It is certain, and evident to our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood, which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Now it is not possible that the same thing should be at once in actuality and potentiality in the same respect, but only in different respects. For what is actually hot cannot simultaneously be potentially hot; but it is simultaneously potentially cold. It is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved, i.e. that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently, no other mover; seeing that subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are put in motion by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

The fourth way is taken from the gradation to be found in things. Among beings there are some more and some less good, true, noble and the like. But “more” and “less” are predicated of different things, according as they resemble in their different ways something which is the maximum, as a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest; so that there is something which is truest, something best, something noblest and, consequently, something which is uttermost being; for those things that are greatest in truth are greatest in being, as it is written in Metaph. ii. Now the maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus; as fire, which is the maximum heat, is the cause of all hot things. Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.

Reply to Objection 1. As Augustine says (Enchiridion xi): “Since God is the highest good, He would not allow any evil to exist in His works, unless His omnipotence and goodness were such as to bring good even out of evil.” This is part of the infinite goodness of God, that He should allow evil to exist, and out of it produce good.

Have fun everyone.

God bless,

Have you ever considered that without evil to fight against, the Church would lose its reason for being.

If everyone is good, why do we need a Church to tell us we are all sinners and make us feel guilty for crimes we do not commit?

 

[jkiernan56]

Have you ever considered that without evil to fight against, the Church would lose its reason for being.

If everyone is good, why do we need a Church to tell us we are all sinners and make us feel guilty for crimes we do not commit?

Common sense can answer this one. The Church is the Family of God. We are brothers and sisters in Christ with the same Father (God). Sin does not need to exist for the Church to exist - just as Goodness CAN exist without Evil. (Evil cannot exist with Good). The reality of the Church has NOTHING to do with sin. Once the Lord has folded up the Tent of History and the Church is completely made Holy (the Bride of Christ) - sin will no longer be in the picture.

 

[jbrown0059]

Common sense can answer this one. The Church is the Family of God. We are brothers and sisters in Christ with the same Father (God). Sin does not need to exist for the Church to exist - just as Goodness CAN exist without Evil. (Evil cannot exist with Good). The reality of the Church has NOTHING to do with sin. Once the Lord has folded up the Tent of History and the Church is completely made Holy (the Bride of Christ) - sin will no longer be in the picture.

But how many people worship God because they have to “or else”. If your very future depends on “behaving according to the rules or else” than who is the evil and by what definition is evil.

I have reservations about a Church that does not support its most loyal followers (The American Catholic) yet seems to want everyone from Latin America to take over the Church in the USA, and maybe the country itself. Is that good or evil?

I know which one it is and I don’t need the Church to make me feel guilty about being loyal to my country.

 

[jkiernan56]

But how many people worship God because they have to “or else”. If your very future depends on “behaving according to the rules or else” than who is the evil and by what definition is evil.

I have reservations about a Church that does not support its most loyal followers (The American Catholic) yet seems to want everyone from Latin America to take over the Church in the USA, and maybe the country itself. Is that good or evil?

I know which one it is and I don’t need the Church to make me feel guilty about being loyal to my country.

Real love is what is supposed to rule our heats and actions.
Love … not rules.

 

[joandarc2008]

I have never had the Church make me feel guilty for being loyal to country. If anything it is the opposite. We say prayers for our men and women overseas at our masses, etc. This is what I see as a servicewoman who is Catholic. But it is all perception and often has to do with the Parish. I encourage you to try to find a parish more to your likeing.

God bless,

 

[marilyn_Casella]

Hello!
This is a topic which needs hardcore studying. First of all how can a topic like this begin without defining our terms. Evil in the Judeo-Christian way of life, which we are talking about, is defined as the absence of a good which should be present. Therefore we have physical and moral evils. Physical being missing an arm or leg; this type of evil God can and does will in order to save us or others. Example: If having the gift of sight would cause me to lust and eventually damnation he may will me to be blind. (this forces us to remember that everything is a gift). Then, we have moral evils in which God does not will (active will and permissive will) actively because of the principle of non-contradiction. It is ilogical for God to actively will moral evil and He is complete logic. But he can permissively allow it in His infinite wisdom to occur for a greater good, which we don’t always perceive because we are finite and He is infinite. There is mystery and to deny that is to deny the true poverty of spirit in which it is to be human. We can’t prove the existence of the trinity or the Eucharist but we can show that it is rational and logical to believe in it. Thanks and God Bless.

Quote Marilyn Casella Goems

I agree with you. As C.S.Lewis states God could have made us like robots all walking the same thinking the same but he allows us not to love him - in love with us - he gives us free Will. Just as a parent will force the child to love him or her but desires that love - it is the same with God.

 

[jbrown0059]

I have never had the Church make me feel guilty for being loyal to country. If anything it is the opposite. We say prayers for our men and women overseas at our masses, etc. This is what I see as a servicewoman who is Catholic. But it is all perception and often has to do with the Parish. I encourage you to try to find a parish more to your likeing.

God bless,

What if you discovered that the Catholic Church was supporting groups that would harm the people of the US and other countries in the world? What if the Catholic Church made you feel guilty for not supporting these harmful groups? What if the Catholic Church made you believe it is a sin not to support these groups?

 

[davidv]

What if you discovered that the Catholic Church was supporting groups that would harm the people of the US and other countries in the world? What if the Catholic Church made you feel guilty for not supporting these harmful groups? What if the Catholic Church made you believe it is a sin not to support these groups?

If this were ever to be true I would be joining one of those groups in support of the Church. If indeed true, the the US and her people will have joined the evil one and woud deserve to be battled against.

 

[jkiernan56]

If this were ever to be true I would be joining one of those groups in support of the Church. If indeed true, the the US and her people will have joined the evil one and woud deserve to be battled against.

Hey, can anyone clue me in on this? What are some of these “groups” in particular? Otherwise, it is like running around with a bottle in my hand trying to catch some gas I passed … LOL

 

[jbrown0059]

Hey, can anyone clue me in on this? What are some of these “groups” in particular? Otherwise, it is like running around with a bottle in my hand trying to catch some gas I passed … LOL

Since it’s really no secret that religious organizations have tended to side with people who have entered the US and other countries unlawfully, it would follow that those same organizations are against lawful governments and their people ruling themselves.