Why does God let bad things happen to good people?

[Church_Militant]

I don’t think flowers or sand or water are evil. But I do think catholics who like to post in forums also like to twist everything so they have something to argue about.

If you say so…

Job makes my point - not yours.

Really? So then Job was so greatly protected in that God only commanded that Satan not take his life? I’ve read it several times and I see Job asking again and again “why me?” but still holding on to his faith in saying “though he slay me yet will I trust him”. Job 13 is a good example.

So, what is you reasoning that evil exists in the world? If it does not have anything to do with freewill (Adam and Eve choosing to disobey God as I stated referencing Scripture Gen 3) and the battle between God and satan as the Bible states. (also in Scripture)

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

I never said that I deny a spiritual battle with unseen powers, only that your statement appeared to condemn all of the creation as “the world”, when in fact the problem is people in society, correct?

 

[Ginger2]

Well Catharina, Right now I am in the middle of having insults and false accusations charged against me.

So no, whether or not you understand where I’m coming from makes no difference to me.

Do you sit there quietly while those you fellowship with make false accusation?

Are you not, as a Christian, supposed to correct them?

What post did I make anti-catholic comments? This is what your fellow catholics have charged.

What post did I say that God isn’t great enough to overcome the devil? I am falsely accused of blaspheme and not one catholic speaks out. Do you stand in approval of this?

Because I would like to know where you are coming from.

You say your understanding of where I am coming from will improve communication. But it seems to me that some catholics on this thread think I believe all sorts of thing I deny.

So, tell me now: what do you think I believe? What I have said? Or what you think all non-catholics believe?

 

[Ginger2]

If you say so…

See. It makes no difference what I say I believe or deny. Because according to catholics I don’t know what I believe - they know. Amazing how catholics can see into a person heart. I thought only God could do that.

 

[Ginger2]

Originally Posted by Ginger2 View Post
I don’t think flowers or sand or water are evil. But I do think catholics who like to post in forums also like to twist everything so they have something to argue about.

If you say so…

See. It makes no difference what I say I believe or deny. Because according to catholics I don’t know what I believe - they know. Amazing how catholics can see into a person heart. I thought only God could do that.

 

[catharina]

Well Catharina, Right now I am in the middle of having insults and false accusations charged against me.

So no, whether or not you understand where I’m coming from makes no difference to me.

Do you sit there quietly while those you fellowship with make false accusation?

Are you not, as a Christian, supposed to correct them?

What post did I make anti-catholic comments? This is what your fellow catholics have charged.

What post did I say that God isn’t great enough to overcome the devil? I am falsely accused of blaspheme and not one catholic speaks out. Do you stand in approval of this?

Because I would like to know where you are coming from.

You say your understanding of where I am coming from will improve communication. But it seems to me that some catholics on this thread think I believe all sorts of thing I deny.

So, tell me now: what do you think I believe? What I have said? Or what you think all non-catholics believe?

Ginger2, I’m terribly sorry if I’ve offended you in any way. What I’ve said in regard to faith still stands. Roman Catholics rely on both Scripture and Tradition. Protestants do not. You brought up the point and it was then that I checked your profile because I was hoping to determine your frame of reference. Knowing that you define your faith as Protestant allowed me to do that. Many of the breaks in the Church came about because individuals and their followers chose to abandon Tradition. Of course you would Understand things one way and I another. It makes sense to me.

I’m in no position to correct anyone on this thread, including you. I’m simply looking to understand the issues. I see the world as created and redeemed by God. I see each one of us as being subject to temptation - because we are human beings. Does that help?

 

[Ginger2]

So then Job was so greatly protected in that God only commanded that Satan not take his life?

Because God allowed satan to have limited power over Job… Which is what I have already said.

Post # 72: “But it is obvious that God. for whatever reason, has allowed satan a certain amount of limited power for a limited time over the physical world.”

 

[Church_Militant]

Originally Posted by Ginger2 View Post
I don’t think flowers or sand or water are evil. But I do think catholics who like to post in forums also like to twist everything so they have something to argue about.

See. It makes no difference what I say I believe or deny. Because according to catholics I don’t know what I believe - they know. Amazing how catholics can see into a person heart. I thought only God could do that.

Quit :crying: :crying: :crying:

You made a statement that I disagreed with and now you’re a martyr? Try not to take yourself so seriously…

Never said you were anything except appearing to assert that the world itself (creation) was in the power of the devil.

If you don’t know, you might want to start at Post #48:

“World ruled by Satan”.
This world is ruled by Satan"
“We are living in Satan’s Kingdom”
“This world is of the devil”
“We are living in Satan’s Kingdom”
“I asked God to take away my free will”.

You can proceed through all your posts, and my posts where I point out your errors.

peace

mgrfin might’ve been right…

 

[Ginger2]

Ginger2, I’m terribly sorry if I’ve offended you in any way.

There is no need to apologize. You have done nothing wrong.

I’m in no position to correct anyone on this thread, including you.

That is an unfortunate attitude. As Scripture tells us we should correct our brothers. When someone claims I said God isn’t great enough to overcome the devil? That is a lie. That is what apparently comes from a self-righteous attitude. This from a man who has said “Tradition always trumps Scripture.” (posted in another thread) Obviously that statement is counter to catholic doctrine. But that’s OK because he’s catholic so we can all pretend he is correct. But, what I say is not what I mean because I am protestant, therefore I must mean something extremely heretical and often totally opposite of what I actually said. So catholics let the lies stand without correction.

I see the world as created and redeemed by God. I see each one of us as being subject to temptation - because we are human beings. Does that help?

I agree with you, Catharina.

 

[Ginger2]

Originally Posted by Ginger2 View Post “I don’t think flowers or sand or water are evil.”

Quit :crying: :crying: :crying:

You made a statement that I disagreed with and now you’re a martyr? Try not to take yourself so seriously…

So, you think flowers or sand or water ARE EVIL?



Well…what do you expect from a munchkin!

(this is a joke! CM does not think flowers are evil)

 

[Church_Militant]

Originally Posted by Ginger2 View Post “I don’t think flowers or sand or water are evil.”

So, you think flowers or sand or water ARE EVIL?



Well…what do you expect from a munchkin!

(this is a joke! CM does not think flowers are evil)

:hypno: :juggle:

 

[mgrfin]

Ginger:

It is not that you quote Scripture, but how you quote it. Not every Scripture quote is applicable. You can, and you do, take Scripture out of context.

I am not impressed with people quoting Scripture on this site. They resist good Scriptural quotes, e.g. re: the Eucharist, yet, wind up quoting some esoteric piece of God’s word that is not relative.

When I see Protestants accepting Scripture quotes that matters, I pass over their grabbing of whatever Scripture is available.

You have nothing on which to base your beliefs. You think every piece of Scripture backs you up. Protestants grab at Romans and Galatians thinking that this confirms their belief in Justification by Faith only. You know what you are against - anything the Catholic Church teaches - but you have nothing to base that on.

You quoted Scripture for your beliefs, but those beliefs are heretical to us, and have been for the past 1800 years.

We can quote Scripture just as well as you, and back it up with “tradition” for whatever we are discussing. We have a history of worship of the Lord Jesus, as he wished to be worshipped. We gave Scripture and Tradition on which to base our faith. We have the Church founded by Jesus Christ, and guided by his Holy Spirit.

Maranatha

 

[mgrfin]

Originally Posted by Ginger2 View Post “I don’t think flowers or sand or water are evil.”

So, you think flowers or sand or water ARE EVIL?



Well…what do you expect from a munchkin!

(this is a joke! CM does not think flowers are evil)

Ginger quotes on serious matters. “Munchins” I assume are Manicheeans, which is not a funny matter.

Get serious, Ginger.

peace

 

[lukewarm]

The only reasonable explanations are 1. God really has no care or affect for what happens to us down here (absentee landlord), 2. God doesn’t exist, or 3. God is a sadist.

Even a bad dog owner has sense enough to pull them apart when they’re fighting.

The idea that an all loving God would sit idly buy while a 5 year girl is raped and buried alive suffering indescribable torture is complete nonsense, it makes no logical sense.

 

[Ginger2]

You have nothing on which to base your beliefs…

You quoted Scripture for your beliefs, but those beliefs are heretical

And just how do you back-up your heretical beliefs?

re: purgation and final judgement
Quote Originally Posted by mgrfin
"Say an unbeliever runs into a burning building to save a small child, and dies in the process.

“Greater love no man has than to lay down his life for his friend”.

Good works work, and they have merit, sometimes everlasting, eternal merit."

Quote Ginger, “are you saying that an atheist can get to heaven without Jesus, but simply by doing one great “good” deed?”

Quote mgrfin post # 73, "Absolutely.

Any one doing this ‘great good deed’ may never heard of Jesus, but all good comes from God. He is doing it, and it is blessed by Jesus. "Greater love than this no many hath than to lay down his life for his friend.

It is an act of perfect charity."



Do not call me a heretic again. Do not suggest in even the slightest way that I, in any way, agree with heretical doctrines.

 

[Bigwill]

I haven’t read this entire thread, so I’m not sure whether this point has been made yet, but to the original question, here’s my two cents:

The question assumes two false propositions, (1) that suffering is bad, and (2) that some people are good.

Scripture disagrees with each of these propositions. St. Paul clearly teaches us that our suffering has redemptive value, and that we complete what is lacking in Christ’s sufferings. He also tells us that none of us is good, not even one.

The question “why does God let bad things happen to good people” is essentially a claim that there are people out there who don’t deserve to suffer. That it’s not fair. I think a better question is why God lets GOOD things happen to BAD people???

I suspect that, from the world’s perspective, I’m a “good” person. I work hard, I support my family, I take rights and responsibilities seriously, I donate money to worthwhile causes, I take homeless people out to dinner on occasion. I suppose that I’m one of these “good” people that God lets bad things happen to. But I’m a sinner. I’ve willingly and knowingly broken my relationship with God. I continue to do so daily. It is only by His mercy that I am welcomed back into His open arms. If anything, I am a bad person who does not deserve His love. But He loves me anyway. Despite what I deserve, God blesses me.

The problem of suffering is a difficult one. Asking why bad things happen to good people is not a stupid question, and it is one that every Christian will have to wrestle with. But keep things in perspective. And perspective will tell you that the better question is why God lets good things happen to bad people. (The answer, btw, is because He loves us.)

 

[mgrfin]

There is no need to apologize. You have done nothing wrong.

That is an unfortunate attitude. As Scripture tells us we should correct our brothers. When someone claims I said God isn’t great enough to overcome the devil? That is a lie. That is what apparently comes from a self-righteous attitude. This from a man who has said “Tradition always trumps Scripture.” (posted in another thread) Obviously that statement is counter to catholic doctrine. But that’s OK because he’s catholic so we can all pretend he is correct. But, what I say is not what I mean because I am protestant, therefore I must mean something extremely heretical and often totally opposite of what I actually said. So catholics let the lies stand without correction.

I agree with you, Catharina.

Ginger,

I assume you are talking about me. I’m not impressed. Please don’t misconstrue what it is I am saying about Scripture and Tradition.

The Catholic Church is the divinely appointed custodian or revelation, it is evidently her office to preserve not merely the letter of Scripture, but also their meaning. The Catholic Church is the authentic and infallible interpreter of Scripture. This intimate connection between Tradition and Scripture does not imply that the inspired writings are not a source of revelation distinct from the oral Tradition which transmits them to us.

The Catholic Church, infallibly assisted by the Holy Spirit, tells us what God has revealed. The motive of faith is always the authority of God who reveals. Besides accepting the authority of God, it includes also submission to the Catholic Church as the infallible and authentic interpreter of revelation. In this sense, Tradition always trumphs Scripture, Ginger.

The Church is not only the teacher of revealed truth, she is also the guardian. The only certain guide as to the inspiration and canonicity of all the books of Sacred Scripture is the authoritive prouncement of the Catholic Church. “I should not believe the gospel”, says St. Augustine, “unless I were impelled thereto by the authority of the Catholic Church”. (Contra ep. fundam, c 5)

peace

 

[Bigwill]

The only reasonable explanations are 1. God really has no care or affect for what happens to us down here (absentee landlord), 2. God doesn’t exist, or 3. God is a sadist.

Quite simply, sir, you are wrong. Answer 4: We do not understand suffering. Is not only another logical option, it is also the only of the four that is true.

 

[Ginger2]

The idea that an all loving God would sit idly buy while a 5 year girl is raped and buried alive suffering indescribable torture is complete nonsense, it makes no logical sense.

I do not understand this either. I get that God is not going to intervene every time someone desires to do evil - that would not be permitting us freewill.

But I struggle terribly with children be hurt. I cannot tell God what to do, so I am focused on returning our laws to what they were before the 1960’s A convicted child rapist would have had only one victim because he never would have seen the light of day again.

Sometimes now they don’t even do jail time.

We should all lobby for lifetime sentences without the chance of parole. Death penatly where legal.

 

[mgrfin]

And just how do you back-up your heretical beliefs?

re: purgation and final judgement
Quote Originally Posted by mgrfin
"Say an unbeliever runs into a burning building to save a small child, and dies in the process.

“Greater love no man has than to lay down his life for his friend”.

Good works work, and they have merit, sometimes everlasting, eternal merit."

Quote Ginger, “are you saying that an atheist can get to heaven without Jesus, but simply by doing one great “good” deed?”

Quote mgrfin post # 73, "Absolutely.

Any one doing this ‘great good deed’ may never heard of Jesus, but all good comes from God. He is doing it, and it is blessed by Jesus. "Greater love than this no many hath than to lay down his life for his friend.

It is an act of perfect charity."

Do not call me a heretic again. Do not suggest in even the slightest way that I, in any way, agree with heretical doctrines.

This post only muddies the waters. I can’t figure out who is saying what.

I will continue to call your statements heretical when they are. You have a negative bent on God and on his Church.

I explained an act of perfect charity where a non-believer was saved by his perfect work, and yet, you stood there with your jaw wide open. You think you have a sense of ‘faith’ and that it drives religion. But, ‘faith’ is only part of the story. It is charity (love) that really matters.

You read scripture, the Gospels and St. Paul and you fail to grasp what the Holy Writ says about the absolute importance of charity. “And there remain faith, hope and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity”. 1 Cor 13, 13

peace

 

[Ginger2]

This post only muddies the waters. I can’t figure out who is saying what.

Your words are in blue.