Why does God love?

[Mannyfit75]

What does this mean? Spell it out for me - I’m ignorant.

Ignorant lack of knowledge. If you knew what the Church has, you wouldn’t leave it. If the Church teaches that the Jesus Christ is truly present Body, and Blood in the Eucharist, you would not leave it.

In Catholicism, you received a more PERSONAL relationship with Jesus because you get to EAT him just as he commanded in John 6.

You don’t have that in your Church nor does your Church have valid Holy Orders to make a valid consecration… or a Apostolic Succession that can traces its origins to the Apostles.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I can’t speak to whether they were wrong or right as I did not hear what they said. It is very possible you misunderstood them. I have had many people on this forum claim I said things I did not say and sometimes I have said their interpretation of what I said is not what I meant. They say yes it is what you meant.

My interpretation is:
(and this is only my personal interpretation as I have never had anyone teach/preach the OSAS idea)

God knows what is in your heart. Therefore God knows who is sincere in their repenting. He knows who will say yeah I want to give my life to God, but then turn away when they realize there is a price that goes along with serving God.

God has a book with the names of the saved and a book with the names of the condemned that was written from the beginning, He knows who is saved and who is not before they are born because He knows their hearts.

Still He gives everyone the chance to be saved.

OSAS means God knows who is going to have eternal life.

BTW, I have never, ever met a protestant who thought it meant you have a free pass to sin. Yet, all it takes is one wacky non-catholic to say it and you Catholics assume it is a universal teaching among protestants.

I understood them clearly. I asked more than twice.

I ask:

Me: So in OSAS you are claiming that no sin, past, present or future sins which you have not committed will not separated you from losing heaven.

THEM: Yes. Not even because Jesus Christ took all that sin at the cross even those sins we have not committed.

ME: So basically if someone fornicates, have sin outside marriage, a Christian, he can continue on sinning this morality without having to fear of losing it?

THEM: Yes.

I think they are wrong. Of course I have come to a website that refute OSAS doctrine. He believes that we can lose our salvation when we commit sin. Even Gary the host of Bible Answer Man condemns OSAS.

 

[Ginger2]

No, no, no…I know what ignorant means. I want you to tell me what you mean by:

It’s sad that you won’t be receiving the Same Jesus Christ at Cross because you don’t have Holy Communion… and no valid Holy Orders.

 

[Ginger2]

I understood them clearly. I asked more than twice.

I ask:

Me: So in OSAS you are claiming that no sin, past, present or future sins which you have not committed will not separated you from losing heaven.

THEM: Yes. Not even because Jesus Christ took all that sin at the cross even those sins we have not committed.

ME: So basically if someone fornicates, have sin outside marriage, a Christian, he can continue on sinning this morality without having to fear of losing it?

THEM: Yes.

I think they are wrong. Of course I have come to a website that refute OSAS doctrine. He believes that we can lose our salvation when we commit sin. Even Gary the host of Bible Answer Man condemns OSAS.

That thinking is un-Biblical. They are wrong. But, you do not lose your salvation just because you commit a sin after being baptized, then regain it after confession, then lose it cause you smashed your thumb with a hammer and said, “d@*%n it”. The regain it at confession, etc. etc. Even Catholics know that. Otherwise they would have no purpose for purgatory.

 

[Mannyfit75]

No, no, no…I know what ignorant means. I want you to tell me what you mean by:

igorant, lack of knowledge or understanding. Those who leave the Catholic Church leave because they are either one of the following, lack understanding of certain Catholic doctrines, or lack of full knowledge of Catholic doctrines.

They leave because they feel that they been deceived. They feel that saying the rosary is idol worship, which it isn’t, the Church doesn’t teaches that. I have read former Catholics say. “I was Catholic, then I read the Bible now I’m Christian.”

I’m like. What? You were Christian when you were Catholic. What did the Priest preached at the Mass? He preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ… Where you even listening to the Gospels and the Commentaries in the Homilies… or where you there at Mass just to buy time and finish this for 45 mins… or did you leave because the priest sermon wasn’t great… and it was dull and lack the spirit…

So yes. Ex-Catholic leave out of ignorance. They didn’t understand a doctrine or practice of the Catholic Church… or were told by someone that the Hail Mary was worship… or that the Eucharist is not really Jesus… that Mary didn’t remain a virgin… that the Pope help the Nazis… I can go on and on…

They Ex-Catholics also claim the Church didn’t allow us to read the Bible. Oh please. I find no document discouraging Catholics not to read the Bible. In fact Pope John Paul II encourages Biblical Readings… and the need to put Christ back in their lives… That is my major issue with Ex-Catholics turn Protestants… They became Born Again because they didn’t read the Bible.

What did the priest read at the Mass? A script from the Vatican…

 

[Mannyfit75]

That thinking is un-Biblical. They are wrong. But, you do not lose your salvation just because you commit a sin after being baptized, then regain it after confession, then lose it cause you smashed your thumb with a hammer and said, “d@*%n it”. The regain it at confession, etc. etc. Even Catholics know that. Otherwise they would have no purpose for purgatory.

They are theologically wrong. Your interpretation of OSAS sounds like Purgatory…

Sins committed after baptism can forgiven by confession. Confession and repenting restores the grace you lost.

 

[Ginger2]

Let me try again…

I already know what “ignorant” means.

What do you mean by, "It’s sad that you won’t be receiving the **Same Jesus Christ **at Cross because you don’t have Holy Communion… and no valid Holy Orders.

 

[mgrfin]

I seldom have a clue as to what you are talking about You seem to have a rather unnatural obsession with Luther.

I was raised Catholic. After leaving the Catholic church I read the Scriptures in my Catholic Bible - daily.

My theology moved from Catholicism to Scripture. I had never even heard of Luther until a couple years ago.

As a matter of fact I have a funny story about finding out who Martin Luther was.

After the movie “Luther” came out on video, I was heading to the store to pick up a loaf of bread.

My husband said, “When you get to the store, see if Luther is there.”

I asked, “Luther who?”

How was I supposed to know he was talking about a movie?

You sure do love that "I was a Catholic story… I don’t buy any of it.

We have the same Scriptures, which we read daily, but in addition we have the Seven Sacraments, an infallible Church, the Holy Spirit to guide us and keep us from error, a daily worship of God which rises like incense, a hagiography, a history of saints who lived the life of Jesus.

We expect you to tell us that you found the Scriptures in a bookstore, that you never heard of it before.

We know what OSAS is, and Justification by faith only (the foundation of your religion), and the theology of errors, to which also say, “Luther who…?”

peace

 

[mgrfin]

That thinking is un-Biblical. They are wrong. But, you do not lose your salvation just because you commit a sin after being baptized, then regain it after confession, then lose it cause you smashed your thumb with a hammer and said, “d@*%n it”. The regain it at confession, etc. etc. Even Catholics know that. Otherwise they would have no purpose for purgatory.

Sure Catholics do.

Of course you contrived this real life event.

You seem to have no understanding about Purgatory.

You do lose the possibity of salvation by serious sin after Baptism. You become reconciled to God by the Sacrament of Penance.

You have to do penance for the sins you have committed, and have had forgiven.

Don’t quote anything about the Catholic religion unless you do so correctly.

You claimed to read Scriplture. Better re-read it. If you are going to state something about our religion, please check it out first in the Catechism. Apparently, your life as a Catholic was seriously lacking in teaching you what it was all about.

Thanks.

peace

 

[Ginger2]

You sure do love that "I was a Catholic story… I don’t buy any of it.

“You sure do love” to call people liar.

We have the same Scriptures, which we read daily, but in addition we have the Seven Sacraments, an infallible Church, the Holy Spirit to guide us and keep us from error, a daily worship of God which rises like incense, a hagiography, a history of saints who lived the life of Jesus.

Yes. It’s all that extra-Biblical garbage that confounds your understanding of God.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Let me try again…

I already know what “ignorant” means.

What do you mean by, "It’s sad that you won’t be receiving the **Same Jesus Christ **at Cross because you don’t have Holy Communion… and no valid Holy Orders.

Well, during the consecrating, the bread and wine is no longer bread and wine. The bread is now Jesus’ Body, and the wine is now the Blood of Christ. This Eucharist is Now Jesus Christ, the same Jesus who is at the Right Hand of God, and same Jesus at the cross.

The** sacrifice of the Mass, the Eucharist, now made presence the Sacrifice of the Cross which transcends time and space**. This is a mystery which no mere mortal can explain…The Sacrifice of the Mass is not a resacrifice. It’s a sacrifice of the Lamb of God in an unbloody manner.

We Catholic believe this to be true.

As much as I like to discuss this, I think I have derail the topic…So now back to our back to our Program.

The question, why does God love? Well, John 3:16 answers this.

For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting

 

[Ginger2]

You do lose the possible of salvation by serious sin after.

Romans 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold into slavery to sin.
15 What I do, I do not understand. For I do not do what I want, but I do what I hate.
16 Now if I do what I do not want, I concur that the law is good.
17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18 For I know that good does not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh. The willing is ready at hand, but doing the good is not.
19 For I do not do the good I want, but I do the evil I do not want.
20 Now if (I) do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 So, then, I discover the principle that when I want to do right, evil is at hand.
22 For I take delight in the law of God, in my inner self,
23 but I see in my members another principle at war with the law of my mind, taking me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 5
24 Miserable one that I am! Who will deliver me from this mortal body?
25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Therefore, I myself, with my mind, serve the law of God but, with my flesh, the law of sin.

 

[Mannyfit75]

“You sure do love” to call people liar.

We Catholics don’t buy into Bible Alone or Faith Alone. We Catholics believe that Jesus established One Church upon Peter, and this Church is today found in Catholicism. The Church is brings the testimony of Christ to the people.

Yes. It’s all that extra-Biblical garbage that confounds your understanding of God.

There are many Extra-Biblical stuff Non-Catholic Christians do too like alter calls. That is not even in the Bible… as well as the doctrine of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidi, they also Ex-Biblical because they aren’t taught…

 

[mgrfin]

.

Ginger, are you trying to tell us that you type. What do you believe by these verses that we don’t believe.

You forget we have had 2000 to view these scriptures, and we know what they mean. It is what the Church teaches. What does your church teach about these verses. Are we supposed to come to some reality about your church by these verses. Tell straight out.

peace

 

[Ginger2]

We Catholics don’t buy into Bible Alone or Faith Alone. …

Funny how Catholics can say anything, and other Catholics just glaze over it like it’s OK because it is being said to a Protestant. mgrfin said he doesn’t believe I was raised Catholic.

mgrfin said: "You sure do love that “I was a Catholic story… I don’t buy any of it.”

Of course that is one of the nicer things mgrfin has said to me.

I don’t appreciate being called a liar. Is falsely accusing someone a sin in catholicism or is that a “good deed” that earns merits to get out of purgatory early?

 

[water]

We all gotta go crazy for God sometimes huh.

 

[Ginger2]

Ginger, are you trying to tell us that you type. What do you believe by these verses that we don’t believe.

You forget we have had 2000 to view these scriptures, and we know what they mean. It is what the Church teaches. What does your church teach about these verses. Are we supposed to come to some reality about your church by these verses. Tell straight out.

peace

To quote another nice Catholic, “As usual, the Protestant understands the catholics’ misunderstanding, while the catholic misunderstands the Protestant’s understanding.”

 

[Ginger2]

Ginger, are you trying to tell us that you type. What do you believe by these verses that we don’t believe.

Are you saying you don’t believe what is written in the Bible?

 

[Mannyfit75]

I don’t appreciate being called a liar. Is falsely accusing someone a sin in catholicism or is that a “good deed” that earns merits to get out of purgatory early?

You call yourself a liar. He didn’t. He just doesn’t buy into the doctrines of Sola Scriptura or Faith Alone.

Falsingly accusing someone of sinning is a sin.

As for Purgatory. Those who are there are already saved. Souls in purgatory requires the prayers of saints on earth and the saints in heaven for them to be loose from their sins.

2 Maccabbees Chapter 2:41-45

41 Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden. 42 And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, 44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) 45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them

 

[mgrfin]

Funny how Catholics can say anything, and other Catholics just glaze over it like it’s OK because it is being said to a Protestant. mgrfin said he doesn’t believe I was raised Catholic.

mgrfin: "You sure do love that “I was a Catholic story… I don’t buy any of it.”

Of course that is one of the nicer things mgrfin has said to me.

I don’t appreciate being called a liar. Is falsely accusing someone a sin in catholicism or is that a “good deed” that earns merits to get out of purgatory early?

I didn’t say you were I liar. I said I didn’t buy your story.

Only God can judge sin.

But, you never heard of Martin Luther, and you read Scripture daily. What kind of surprise is that. We Catholics read scripture daily.

And if I weren’t cooking dinner and watching hockey I’d quote you sections of the New Testament to oppose any error you hold.
On the Eucharist, on Penance, on Baptism, on the foundation of the Catholic Church and infallibility, on Grace and Forgiveness.

It’s all there. Look for it.

Stop looking for false arguments. You never heard of Martin Luther? Please.

Tell us what these scripture quotes mean to you, instead of copying out sections to keep us busy arguing with long texts.

peace