Why does Islam consider Jesus a prophet?

[inJESUS]

Nothing. If an author thinks someone is God they just say, “that guy is God.”

mmmm and what if he said it in a theological way? /john is explaining, not only stating…what is more important : WHAT you say or HOW you say it? i bet it is the WHAT…and i bet the WHAT John was saying is understood by you now…so lets not beat round the bush

I’m quite happy to stay with John, but do you notice the other three authors telling us Jesus is God?

you are correct; John focused on Jesus the God more than the others; it is because each of the disciples had a different audiance; Matthiew for example, was writing for the jews, so he focused on Jesus the Messiah more than Jesus the God, yet you find both in his gospel .

Many religions think God is in all of us.

all in us and all in everything, pantheism…you can believe this if yu want, but thats not what Jesus said…as long as am a human being who can die any second and who has no control ever nature or planets or many stuff,them am surely no God…am a god not God, a god in the sense that Jesus the God took a human body in order to make me, the human, godly.

 

[inJESUS]

And no one knoweth the Son, but the Father: neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal HIM.

"After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: ‘Father, the time has come. Glorify YOUR SON, that YOUR SON may glorify you.

For you granted him authority over all people THAT HE MIGHT GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO ALL THOSE YOU HAVE GIVEN HIM. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN …
this is the difference between Jesus, Son of God, and us, sons of God.

although i was talking about the Son of God idea here, Aquarius, i’ll ask you what does it mean that Jesus was with God before the world began?

 

[cathgal]

Aquarius:

The authors of the gospels didn’t say that. Perhaps they should have.

Geez, so you kept complaing that the Gospel didn’t give you enough info about Jesus being God. The evidence given to you was not enough. What hard hearted! Here’s one, straight from the mouth of God, not the Apostles!

“Before Abraham, I AM”

Understand what that mean? Don’t worry, I’m sure some knowledgeable Catholics here will explain.

 

[inJESUS]

cathgal:

Geez, so you kept complaing that the Gospel didn’t give you enough info about Jesus being God. The evidence given to you was not enough. What hard hearted! Here’s one, straight from the mouth of God, not the Apostles!

“Before Abraham, I AM”

Understand what that mean? Don’t worry, I’m sure some knowledgeable Catholics here will explain.

if we were to give him all what the Bible says, it’d take ages…but if he does not want to understand, who will force him?

 

[cathgal]

inJESUS:

if we were to give him all what the Bible says, it’d take ages…but if he does not want to understand, who will force him?

Right, but we want to give him as much evidence as we can so he doesn’t have any excuses to be in denial. This quote that I gave is THE sole evidence that Jesus is God…for any hard hearted out there. If this still doesn’t convince him, we’ll just forget about him and move on. It’s not time for God to work on him yet!

 

[inJESUS]

cathgal:

Right, but we want to give him as much evidence as we can so he doesn’t have any excuses to be in denial. This quote that I gave is THE sole evidence that Jesus is God…for any hard hearted out there. If this still doesn’t convince him, we’ll just forget about him and move on. It’s not time for God to work on him yet!

agree

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Hello Aquarius;

You said:

Aquarius:

… If an author thinks someone is God they just say, “that guy is God.”

The Gospel of John says that…

[24] Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.
[25] So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and place my finger in the mark of the nails, and place my hand in his side, I will not believe.”
[26] Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, “Peace be with you.”
[27] Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing.”
[28] Thomas answered him, **“My Lord and my God!” **
[29] Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.”
[30] Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
[31] but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name. (Jn 20:18-31)

Thomas does expressly call Jesus his Lord and his God. John then goes on to note that the Gospel was written so that others may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the “Son of God” and that believing you may have life in his name. This passage is clearly expressing the divinity of Jesus without any ambiguity. Thomas declares Jesus to be his Lord and his GOD - i.e. Jesus is divine. Because there is only one God - on this Christians Jews and Muslims agree - Jesus is God, just as Thomas expressly declared him to be.

-Peace

 

[Aquarius]

tdandh26:

Aquarius,

I think you need to understand the new testament in light of the old.

After the fall God promised to send a savior to crush the head of the serpent. Who is the serpent? Who was He sending? What did He mean by crush the head?

Why did God create us in the first place? The only answer that makes sense with all of scripture is LOVE.
Why did God say "Let us make man in our image?

Why was Jesus born of a virgin?
Why did Jesus split time in two?
Why did sacrefices stop with Jesus?
Why is it that Mohammeds supposed assumption immitates that of Jesus who alone assended?
Why is it that many of the heresies of Christianity which were around in the day of Mohammed are actual teachings of Islam?

All men are subject to sin, if a person were to try and teach something that he didnt have the full truth about, and was intermixed with heresies. It wouldn’t be a stretch to see that once people started to follow him, he would be driven by pride to proclaim himself prophet.

Jesus alone fulfills the prophesies of the old testament and He alone. From His birth to His teachings to His death. All of it was prophesied about. No one else fits the bill, NO ONE.

I am not arguing if Jesus was God. I am saying that if one simply reads the four gospels there is no reason to think the authors belived he was God.

One could even extend that argument to say they did not believe he was God since that belief would lead to a reasonable expectation that they would make that very, very clear and the major emphasis of their work.

Subsequent authors had no trouble doing this.

 

[Aquarius]

inJESUS:

mmmm and what if he said it in a theological way? /john is explaining, not only stating…what is more important : WHAT you say or HOW you say it? i bet it is the WHAT…and i bet the WHAT John was saying is understood by you now…so lets not beat round the bush

you are correct; John focused on Jesus the God more than the others; it is because each of the disciples had a different audiance; Matthiew for example, was writing for the jews, so he focused on Jesus the Messiah more than Jesus the God, yet you find both in his gospel .

all in us and all in everything, pantheism…you can believe this if yu want, but thats not what Jesus said…as long as am a human being who can die any second and who has no control ever nature or planets or many stuff,them am surely no God…am a god not God, a god in the sense that Jesus the God took a human body in order to make me, the human, godly.

The gospel authors don’t even beat around the bush. They don’t provide any reason for us to think they consider Jesus God.

Do we agree the other three gospel authors give no reason to think they consider Jesus to be God?

The prevalence of pantheism is another valid interpretation of the 'word" passages. If the author really thought Jesus was god, he would say so.

Hasn’t anyone noticed this before? I doubt I’m the firts one in 1,600 years.

 

[Aquarius]

inJESUS:

although i was talking about the Son of God idea here, Aquarius, i’ll ask you what does it mean that Jesus was with God before the world began?

Angel? With God in that God has all existence in mind in a timeless existence? Reincarnation?

There are lots of speculations. But the authors didn’t tell us Jesus was God. People certainly believe that and look for whatever they can find in the gospels to justify that.

And Matthew, Mark, and Luke? They also didn’t tell us Jesus was God. Why should we think they consdier Jesus to be God?

 

[Aquarius]

cathgal:

Geez, so you kept complaing that the Gospel didn’t give you enough info about Jesus being God. The evidence given to you was not enough. What hard hearted! Here’s one, straight from the mouth of God, not the Apostles!

“Before Abraham, I AM”

Understand what that mean? Don’t worry, I’m sure some knowledgeable Catholics here will explain.

I’m not complaining. I’m observing there is no reason to think the authors believed Jesus was God. There is no evidence in the gospels to justify a belief that the authors considered Jesus to be God. They just didn’t say so.

Remember that I am not arguing Jesus was not God. I am arguing that we have no reason to think the authors of the gospels thought Jesus ws God. We can read their work and see they didn’t tell us Jesus was God.

 

[Aquarius]

inJESUS:

if we were to give him all what the Bible says, it’d take ages…but if he does not want to understand, who will force him?

All the bible isn’t necessary. We can look at the four gospels and see if they give us reason to think the authors considered Jesus to be God.

 

[Aquarius]

cathgal:

Right, but we want to give him as much evidence as we can so he doesn’t have any excuses to be in denial. This quote that I gave is THE sole evidence that Jesus is God…for any hard hearted out there. If this still doesn’t convince him, we’ll just forget about him and move on. It’s not time for God to work on him yet!

If you have only one quote from the gospels that you consider hard evidence, then why would you think the other three authors considered Jesus to be God?

 

[Aquarius]

Robert in SD:

Hello Aquarius;

You said:

The Gospel of John says that…

Thomas does expressly call Jesus his Lord and his God. John then goes on to note that the Gospel was written so that others may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the “Son of God” and that believing you may have life in his name. This passage is clearly expressing the divinity of Jesus without any ambiguity. Thomas declares Jesus to be his Lord and his GOD - i.e. Jesus is divine. Because there is only one God - on this Christians Jews and Muslims agree - Jesus is God, just as Thomas expressly declared him to be.

-Peace

Lots of passages refer to sons of God. Most don’t refer to Jesus. I think he may have called himself son of man.

The most you can say is that Thomas thought Jesus was “My lord and my God.” That doesn’t make the case that the authors themselves thought Jesus was God. Why so much concentration on John at the expense of the other three? If John is the best case, the other three fail badly.

 

[melbourne_guy]

Aquarius:

After reading the gospels, does it look like the authors thought Jesus was God? I’d say no. The Chruch may say he is God, but from the text of those gospels, it sure doesn’t look like the authors thought so.

(Mark 14:60-62)(Matt. 26: 63-65)(Luke 22:67-70)
All three of these passages jesus was asked if he was the son of god and he replied “I AM”. This was when he was on trial to be crucified, they saw this as blasphemy and immediately found him guilty. My question is if jesus did not say he was the son of god then why did the jews and romans want to crucify him, its a simple question?

 

[discipleofJesus]

• ‘The Deity of Jesus Christ’
  by Dr John Ankerberg and Dr. John Weldon
  johnankerberg.org/Articles/editors-choice/EC1202W2.htm
• answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_mt_i_am.htm
• ‘Are the Christologies of Mark and John radically different?’
  by Glenn M. Miller
  christian-thinktank.com/samejesus.html
• ‘The NT Witness: The Self-Understanding of Jesus (Synoptics)’
  by Glenn M. Miller
  christian-thinktank.com/trin03b.html
  ( an article from the series here christian-thinktank.com/trin01.html )

‘The NT Witness: The Self-Understanding of Jesus (Gospel of John)’
by Glenn M. Miller
christian-thinktank.com/trin03c.html
( an article from the series here christian-thinktank.com/trin01.html )

• The Divine Claims of Jesus
  by J. P. Holding
  tektonics.org/jesusclaims/jesusclaimshub.html
• answering-islam.org/Who/christology1.html
• answering-islam.org/Trinity/table1.html
• answering-islam.org/Shamoun/jesus_is_yahweh.htm
• answering-islam.org/Shamoun/biblicaljesus.htm

Further Reading

• answering-islam.org/Responses/Shabir-Ally/misunderstood2.htm
• answering-islam.org/Shamoun/worship.htm
• answering-islam.org/Shamoun/christology_evolution1.htm
• Articles under “Christological Issues” and “A Series of Answers to Common Questions and Claims” here answering-islam.org/Shamoun/index.htm

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Aquarius:

I say the authors of the gospels didn’t say Jesus was God. I read the gospels. That’s whay I say that.

You must not be reading the same Gospels as us.

Col 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Luke 1:43
And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Romans 9:5
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Rev 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Matt 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Only God is omnipotent)

Matt 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Only God is omnipotent)

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. (God is Light, and is the only one which can grant life)

John 12:45
And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (If you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father)

John 13:13
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. (Jesus again calls himself the eternal name of the Living God, “I AM THAT I AM”)

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (Only God is the way, the truth, and the life)

John 16:15
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (All things that are the Father’s are Jesus’, one created could not have things uncreated)

Rev 12:16
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. (Jesus calls Himself the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last)

Matt 2:2
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Matt 8:2
And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Matt 14:33
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matt 28:9
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Mark 5:6
But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

Luke 24:51-52
And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: (the Apostles worship the risen Jesus)

Now mind telling us which Gospels you were reading? Not the ones of the Christian Bible.

 

[Karen10]

Aquarius:

That doesn’t say Jesus was God. If the author thought Jesus was God he would have told us.

The Word was GOD, *and John also says:

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(John 1:14, DRC)”
*

 

[Booklover]

Aquarius:

inJESUS:

I think people have the belief that Jesus was God before they read the gospels. They just assume the claim is supported by the authors.

I don’t know what John was talking about. But he didn’t tell us Jesus was God. How about the other gospel authors? They didn’t tell us either. I’d say they didn’t believe it.

Would you have believed him if he’d said: I am God, worship me? Just like that? Or would you have wanted some proof?

Mohammed proclaimed himself a prophet, do you believe he was simply because he said so, or would you need proof also?

Jesus did not actually say those particular words, but he said it in so many other ways! If you approach scripture with your mind already made up against it, you won’t see it.

Vickie

 

[Aquarius]

Semper Fi:

You must not be reading the same Gospels as us.

Col 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Luke 1:43
And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Romans 9:5
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Rev 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Matt 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Only God is omnipotent)

Matt 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Only God is omnipotent)

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. (God is Light, and is the only one which can grant life)

John 12:45
And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (If you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father)

John 13:13
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. (Jesus again calls himself the eternal name of the Living God, “I AM THAT I AM”)

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (Only God is the way, the truth, and the life)

John 16:15
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (All things that are the Father’s are Jesus’, one created could not have things uncreated)

Rev 12:16
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. (Jesus calls Himself the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last)

Matt 2:2
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Matt 8:2
And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Matt 14:33
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matt 28:9
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Mark 5:6
But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

Luke 24:51-52
And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: (the Apostles worship the risen Jesus)

Now mind telling us which Gospels you were reading? Not the ones of the Christian Bible.

None of those say Jesus was God. They reinforce a preconceived belief among many that he was God. The authors have given no indication that the authors consider Jesus to be God.