Why does it say to "worship Mary" in an encyclical?

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In another thread in discussion with non-Catholics, someone cited this from an encyclical by Pope Pius X: (AD DIEM ILLUM LAETISSIMUM–encyclical on the Immaculate Conception)

*For to be right and good, **worship **of the Mother of God ought to spring from the heart; acts of the body have here neither utility nor value if the acts of the soul have no part in them. Now these latter can only have one object, which is that we should fully carry out what the divine Son of Mary commands. *

Bold mine.

Here is the link that this came from:

vatican.va/holy_father/pi…ssimum_en.html

Yet as Catholics we certainly don’t worship Mary.

Anyone have any explanations?
 
PRmerger said:
In another thread in discussion with non-Catholics, someone cited this from an encyclical by Pope Pius X: (AD DIEM ILLUM LAETISSIMUM–encyclical on the Immaculate Conception)

*For to be right and good, **worship ***of the Mother of God ought to spring from the heart; acts of the body have here neither utility nor value if the acts of the soul have no part in them. Now these latter can only have one object, which is that we should fully carry out what the divine Son of Mary commands.

Bold mine.

Here is the link that this came from:

vatican.va/holy_father/pi…ssimum_en.html

Yet as Catholics we certainly don’t worship Mary.

Anyone have any explanations?
Click to expand...
English is the finest, most subtly expressive language in the world. The Pope may have intended “venerate,” but perhaps his Italian-to-Latin did not tolerate an easy distinction between “venerate” and “worship,” so that when re-translated back to English, the distinction was lost.
 
“Worship” has more meanings than “the adoration due only to God”, as can be seen even today in any dictionary.

The best answer to your question, however, is to actually read the encyclical, and determine for yourself if it places Mary ahead of or even with God. Have you read it so that you can answer this question?
 
PRmerger said:
In another thread in discussion with non-Catholics, someone cited this from an encyclical by Pope Pius X: (AD DIEM ILLUM LAETISSIMUM–encyclical on the Immaculate Conception)

*For to be right and good, **worship ***of the Mother of God ought to spring from the heart; acts of the body have here neither utility nor value if the acts of the soul have no part in them. Now these latter can only have one object, which is that we should fully carry out what the divine Son of Mary commands.

Bold mine.

Here is the link that this came from:

vatican.va/holy_father/pi…ssimum_en.html

Yet as Catholics we certainly don’t worship Mary.

Anyone have any explanations?
Click to expand...

All adoration is worship - all worship is not adoration.​

The encyclical uses the word colere - “to cultivate” a field, thus, “to farm”, or, to cultivate a person. (This is normal UK English - US English may be different; if so, I hope this makes sense.) The noun is cultus - and the liturgical cultus of a Saint is the liturgical expression of the veneration of that Saint; in this case, the BVM. So,

“…cultivating [the friendship of the Saints] ought to spring from the heart…”

Since it is obviously idolatry to put God & His Saints on a par, the Church, in honouring both, distinguishes the honour due to each. This is a perfectly reasonable, even self-evident, distinction: every Fundamentalist who distinguishes the the USA from God makes it; if no such distinction had any basis in reality, the Fundamentalist would be adoring the USA every time he sang “My Country, 'Tis of Thee”. Only in the heat of controversy is it overlooked. Since the Church of God does not adore any but God, & cannot, & must not, the love which is not adoration is distinguished from adoration by having a different name: love of country is patriotism, love of the Saints is douleia, & so on.

**All **honour, love, veneration,worship is God’s: the honour paid to His creatures, is paid them within the scope or environment of the boundless devotion of which God Alone is - can be - worthy. “Honour your father and you mother”, “love your neighbour as yourself”, “love your enemies”, are distinct commands from “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind, and with all thy might” - but though in words they seem to contradict it, they do not: they can’t, if all are God-given. So they can only be fruits & signs & evidences of it. Love of God is not a steam-roller, that flattens & destroys all lesser loves - it is the source & principle which alone can create, enliven, purify, direct, & order them; they are nothing, if it is lacking.

Hope that helps.
 
VociMike said:
“Worship” has more meanings than “the adoration due only to God”, as can be seen even today in any dictionary.

The best answer to your question, however, is to actually read the encyclical, and determine for yourself if it places Mary ahead of or even with God. Have you read it so that you can answer this question?
Click to expand...
No, I haven’t read the entire encyclical–but I am certain that it does NOT place Mary ahead of God. I just needed an answer for the non-Catholic who cited this quote in another thread…it did indeed surprise me to see that written in a Catholic document and it does make it harder for us to defend Marian doctrines.

I will suggest he read the entire encyclical…but I’m pretty sure that suggestion will fall on deaf ears. 🤷
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

All adoration is worship - all worship is not adoration.​

The encyclical uses the word colere - “to cultivate” a field, thus, “to farm”, or, to cultivate a person. (This is normal UK English - US English may be different; if so, I hope this makes sense.) The noun is cultus - and the liturgical cultus of a Saint is the liturgical expression of the veneration of that Saint; in this case, the BVM. So,

“…cultivating [the friendship of the Saints] ought to spring from the heart…”

Since it is obviously idolatry to put God & His Saints on a par, the Church, in honouring both, distinguishes the honour due to each. This is a perfectly reasonable, even self-evident, distinction: every Fundamentalist who distinguishes the the USA from God makes it; if no such distinction had any basis in reality, the Fundamentalist would be adoring the USA every time he sang “My Country, 'Tis of Thee”. Only in the heat of controversy is it overlooked. Since the Church of God does not adore any but God, & cannot, & must not, the love which is not adoration is distinguished from adoration by having a different name: love of country is patriotism, love of the Saints is douleia, & so on.

**All **honour, love, veneration,worship is God’s: the honour paid to His creatures, is paid them within the scope or environment of the boundless devotion of which God Alone is - can be - worthy. “Honour your father and you mother”, “love your neighbour as yourself”, “love your enemies”, are distinct commands from “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind, and with all thy might” - but though in words they seem to contradict it, they do not: they can’t, if all are God-given. So they can only be fruits & signs & evidences of it. Love of God is not a steam-roller, that flattens & destroys all lesser loves - it is the source & principle which alone can create, enliven, purify, direct, & order them; they are nothing, if it is lacking.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Indeed, it does. With your permission I will quote it to the non-Catholic objector in another thread…
 
PRmerger said:
No, I haven’t read the entire encyclical–but I am certain that it does NOT place Mary ahead of God. I just needed an answer for the non-Catholic who cited this quote in another thread…it did indeed surprise me to see that written in a Catholic document and it does make it harder for us to defend Marian doctrines.

I will suggest he read the entire encyclical…but I’m pretty sure that suggestion will fall on deaf ears. 🤷
Click to expand...
Papal encyclicals are not something we should run away from, but something we should expose to the world. Get aggressive and start a discussion on the encyclical. Dissect it piece by piece. The result will be so much different and more interesting (and more God-honoring) than these I-found-this-quote-on-an-anti-Catholic-site people imagine.

One by one, post each meaty paragraph and invite discussion on it. The results might be fascinating to observe.
 
The problem is with a recent narrowing of the English word “worship” within American apologetic circles to describe the honor that is due to God alone. In older American usage and more tradtional British usage it is used synonymously with “honor”.

For example, consider the following traditional wedding vows used in many English-speaking-Protestant ceremonies:With this ring I thee wed: with my body I thee worship: and with all my worldly goods I thee endow. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
With regard to the noun, “worship”, Americans address dignitaries as “Your Honor” where the British might say “Your Worship”.

There is no disrespect to God. In this context, worship means the same as honor. The Latin verb that is used in the encyclical is used for the type of devotion that is permissible for creatures as well as the Creator.
 
Loy said:
The problem is with a recent narrowing of the English word “worship” within American apologetic circles to describe the honor that is due to God alone. In older American usage and more tradtional British usage it is used synonymously with “honor”.

For example, consider the following traditional wedding vows used in many English-speaking-Protestant ceremonies:With this ring I thee wed: with my body I thee worship: and with all my worldly goods I thee endow. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
With regard to the noun, “worship”, Americans address dignitaries as “Your Honor” where the British might say “Your Worship”.

There is no disrespect to God. In this context, worship means the same as honor. The Latin verb that is used in the encyclical is used for the type of devotion that is permissible for creatures as well as the Creator.
Click to expand...
Ah, thanks for posting that. When I first saw that quote myself I knew that Pius X didn’t intend to say that Mary should be worshipped in the modern sense of the word, but your post really did clear things up 😉

Perhaps the Vatican should re-translate this from its original Latin?
 
Loy said:
The problem is with a recent narrowing of the English word “worship” within American apologetic circles to describe the honor that is due to God alone. In older American usage and more tradtional British usage it is used synonymously with “honor”.

For example, consider the following traditional wedding vows used in many English-speaking-Protestant ceremonies:With this ring I thee wed: with my body I thee worship: and with all my worldly goods I thee endow. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
With regard to the noun, “worship”, Americans address dignitaries as “Your Honor” where the British might say “Your Worship”.

There is no disrespect to God. In this context, worship means the same as honor. The Latin verb that is used in the encyclical is used for the type of devotion that is permissible for creatures as well as the Creator.
Click to expand...
Interesting.

However, I feel that I must now amend my declaration to non-Catholics who accuse me of giving Mary excessive adoration. Instead of my usual, “Catholics don’t worship Mary” I will have to say instead, “Catholics don’t worship Mary in the same way we worship God.”
 
To say Catholics don’t worship Mary is fine and I think best because of the linguistic development, but one should note too to the person the linguistic development so one doesn’t get caught flat footed.
 
PRmerger said:
Interesting.

However, I feel that I must now amend my declaration to non-Catholics who accuse me of giving Mary excessive adoration. Instead of my usual, “Catholics don’t worship Mary” I will have to say instead, “Catholics don’t worship Mary in the same way we worship God.”
Click to expand...
I would rather you said “in the modern understanding of the word”.

“Catholics don’t worship Mary” is an entirely correct statement given the understanding of the word “worship” by those who make the charge.
 
Loy said:
The problem is with a recent narrowing of the English word “worship” within American apologetic circles to describe the honor that is due to God alone. In older American usage and more tradtional British usage it is used synonymously with “honor”.

For example, consider the following traditional wedding vows used in many English-speaking-Protestant ceremonies:
With this ring I thee wed: with my body I thee worship: and with all my worldly goods I thee endow. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
With regard to the noun, “worship”, Americans address dignitaries as “Your Honor” where the British might say “Your Worship”.

There is no disrespect to God. In this context, worship means the same as honor. The Latin verb that is used in the encyclical is used for the type of devotion that is permissible for creatures as well as the Creator.
Click to expand...
In addition, here are a couple of examples from the 1960’s:

“All men need someone to worship and adore,
That’s why I treasure you and place you high above.”

“I was made to love her,
Worship and adore her.”

The first is from a song by The Four Tops (Bernadette) and the second is from Stevie Wonder (I Was Made to Love Her).

I have yet to hear anybody complain about the use of “worship” and “adore” in these lyrics or criticize these artists for using them about somebody besides God.
 
Kay_Cee said:
In addition, here are a couple of examples from the 1960’s:

“All men need someone to worship and adore,
That’s why I treasure you and place you high above.”

“I was made to love her,
Worship and adore her.”

The first is from a song by The Four Tops (Bernadette) and the second is from Stevie Wonder (I Was Made to Love Her).

I have yet to hear anybody complain about the use of “worship” and “adore” in these lyrics or criticize these artists for using them about somebody besides God.
Click to expand...

Could that be because “adore” is not used in its theologically exact sense, in colloquial speech, but means instead “love very strongly” ?​

Somehow, we have to live with the gap between colloquial usage of words, & their use as technical terms in theology. Just as scientists & philosophers have to 🙂
 
PRmerger said:
In another thread in discussion with non-Catholics, someone cited this from an encyclical by Pope Pius X: (AD DIEM ILLUM LAETISSIMUM–encyclical on the Immaculate Conception)

*For to be right and good, **worship ***of the Mother of God ought to spring from the heart; acts of the body have here neither utility nor value if the acts of the soul have no part in them. Now these latter can only have one object, which is that we should fully carry out what the divine Son of Mary commands.

Bold mine.

Here is the link that this came from:

vatican.va/holy_father/pi…ssimum_en.html

Yet as Catholics we certainly don’t worship Mary.

Anyone have any explanations?
Click to expand...
the meaning of this word has changed over time. It used to be that “worship” meant something more like respect, or veneration… and latria worship was called “adoration”. We only “adore” God, we “worship” (venerate) the Saints and Mary. Today, we don’t talk like this. We use the words worship and venerate.

It’s just a linguistic problem, I think 😉
 
*The problem is an understanding of words and their usage. Protestants have a way of narrowing the meaning of a word and then get upset if Catholics don’t follow their definitions.

Take the word worship.

O.E. worðscip, wurðscip (Anglian), weorðscipe (W.Saxon) “condition of being worthy, honor, renown,” from weorð “worthy” (see worth) + -scipe (see -ship). Sense of “reverence paid to a supernatural or divine being” is first recorded c.1300. The original sense is preserved in the title worshipful (c.1300). The verb is recorded from c.1200. (from the Online Entymology Dictionary)

The word originally had a broad meaning of being worthy and until recently we (in England* anyway) used to address a judge or a mayor as “your worship”. In that sense it would be correct to say that we worship Mary. However protestants have narrowed the word to only* mean adoration of God. So Catholics now would not say we worship Mary because it would be so misunderstood.
 
VociMike said:
Papal encyclicals are not something we should run away from, but something we should expose to the world. Get aggressive and start a discussion on the encyclical. Dissect it piece by piece. The result will be so much different and more interesting (and more God-honoring) than these I-found-this-quote-on-an-anti-Catholic-site people imagine.

One by one, post each meaty paragraph and invite discussion on it. The results might be fascinating to observe.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling that he will be disappointed because right now he has what he considers a hot piece to throw in the fire!!

You will burst his bubble!👍
 
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