Why does it say to "worship Mary" in an encyclical?

[christian1]

1. In order to understand better this sublime dignity of the Mother of God over all creatures let us recall that the holy Mother of God was, at the very moment of her Immaculate Conception, so filled with grace as to surpass the grace of all the Saints. Wherefore, as Our Predecessor of happy memory, Pius IX wrote, God “showered her with heavenly gifts and graces from the treasury of His divinity so far beyond what He gave to all the angels and saints that she was ever free from the least stain of sin; she is so beautiful and perfect, and possesses such fullness of innocence and holiness, that under God a greater could not be dreamed, and only God can comprehend the marvel.”(55)

Now we learn that she was born without sin and died without sin. Slowly but surely, her elevation climbs.

Now she is even with Christ in that she was sinless always as He was.

Next, she’ll have to power to save and redeem mankind.

Oh wait, I believe that dogma is in the making as we speak. If this happens, you will have used Mary to your detriment. You will lose any possible converts to Christ because of your extreme dedication to a humble servant of God. No, you will actually finally and fully distinguish yourselves among all, exaclty how far fallen from the Holy Scriptures your traditions have thrown you.

 

[Shin]

1. In order to understand better this sublime dignity of the Mother of God over all creatures let us recall that the holy Mother of God was, at the very moment of her Immaculate Conception, so filled with grace as to surpass the grace of all the Saints. Wherefore, as Our Predecessor of happy memory, Pius IX wrote, God “showered her with heavenly gifts and graces from the treasury of His divinity so far beyond what He gave to all the angels and saints that she was ever free from the least stain of sin; she is so beautiful and perfect, and possesses such fullness of innocence and holiness, that under God a greater could not be dreamed, and only God can comprehend the marvel.”(55)

Now we learn that she was born without sin and died without sin. Slowly but surely, her elevation climbs.

Now she is even with Christ in that she was sinless always as He was.

Next, she’ll have to power to save and redeem mankind.

Oh wait, I believe that dogma is in the making as we speak. If this happens, you will have used Mary to your detriment. You will lose any possible converts to Christ because of your extreme dedication to a humble servant of God. No, you will actually finally and fully distinguish yourselves among all, exaclty how far fallen from the Holy Scriptures your traditions have thrown you.

What part of God sparing His mother this thing that all of us who go to Heaven are supposed to aim for and eventually achieve is hard for you to understand? Only the pure of heart can see God… And certainly only the pure of heart could be the Mother of God and bear Him in her womb.

But again you are using your private interpretation, which no scripture is subject to – Instead of the authoritative interpretation of the Church founded by Jesus Christ, and witnessed throughout history in His saints.

This is the belief of the real Christians of history. That Mary is and has always been pure and free from sin.

 

[PRmerger]

So much for praying for intercession. Seems now, Mary is **prayed to **and is able to protect.

Yes, Catholics pray to Mary, and we pray to the Angels and Saints, seeking their intercession and protection. Did not the Israelites seek Moses’ protection?

So the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned, because we have spoken against the LORD and you; intercede with the LORD, that He may remove the serpents from us.” And Moses interceded for the people. Numbers 21:7

 

[Bradleyc]

“The prayers of a righteous man avails him much.” And who is more righteous than a brother or sister in Christ in Heaven? We are all connected to the Body of Christ, esp. those who have died and are now fully united.

Also, check out Revelations 5:8.

Thanks RPmerger,

I read Revelation 5:8 regarding the saints, but within it’s context I believe “saints” refers to those on Earth:

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of its heads as having been slain to death, and its deadly wound was healed. And all the earth marveled after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast. And they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with it?
Rev 13:5 And a mouth speaking great things was given to it, and blasphemies. And authority was given to it to continue forty-two months.
Rev 13:6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemy toward God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, and those dwelling in Heaven.
**Rev 13:7 And it was given to it to war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given to it over every tribe and tongue and nation. **
Rev 13:8 And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.

Here is what I can find in scriptures the description of a saint:
**Act 9:13 ** And Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many of this man, how many evil things he has done to Your saints at Jerusalem.
Act 9:32 And it happened, passing through all, Peter also came down to the saints who lived at Lydda.
Act 26:10 which I also did in Jerusalem. And I shut up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests. And they being put to death, I cast a vote.

Rom 8:26 ** Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities**. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, **but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us **with groanings which cannot be uttered.
**Rom 8:27 ** And He searching the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

 

[PRmerger]

So Jesus is the Head of the Body and Mary is the neck we learn. Even though, it is the Holy Spirit that is supposed to be the mediator in Christs absence according to Christ. We now must go through Mary to get to Jesus. Now there is an added step in salvation. Unless you tell me that** I do not need Mary to be saved,** I am under the distinct impression through your encyclicals and doctrines and dogmas that indeed I do.

You cannot change the fact that we needed Mary to get to Jesus. It is a historical fact. **Through Mary, Jesus came into the world. ** Your redemption was made possible by her Fiat–Let it be done unto me according to Thy Word!

 

[PRmerger]

Thanks RPmerger,

I read Revelation 5:8 regarding the saints, but within it’s context** I believe** “saints” refers to those on Earth:

Ok. Before I get into the rest of you post, I want to ask by what authority you claim “I believe ‘saints’ refers to those on Earth.” Could you be wrong about this?

If someone disagrees with you, then what? How would we resolve your different interpretation from anothers?

 

[Bradleyc]

Yes, Catholics pray to Mary, and we pray to the Angels and Saints, seeking their intercession and protection. Did not the Israelites seek Moses’ protection?

So the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned, because we have spoken against the LORD and you; intercede with the LORD, that He may remove the serpents from us.” And Moses interceded for the people. Numbers 21:7

HI PRMerger,
but isn’t that a different scenario? Moses had a direct connection with God because they had no temple in which to sacrifice and that was the OLD covenant…(i could be wrong on that though) but under the new covenant we have the Holy Spirit that does the interceding for us:

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And He searching the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Also, there are scriptures that do WARN us not to seek the dead:
Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that uses divination, an observer of clouds, or a fortune-teller, or a witch,
Deu 18:11 or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, **or one who calls to the dead.
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination to Jehovah. **And because of these abominations Jehovah your God drives them out from before you.

 

[christian1]

It leaves me to wonder if Mary was born without sin, lived and died withouts sin as the writings indicate, then she would not have needed saving. And yet, she called him, her God and her savior after He had risen.

Why these inconsistancies in Catholic teachings about Mary? Am I again misunderstanding something perhaps?

 

[Bradleyc]

Ok. Before I get into the rest of you post, I want to ask by what authority you claim “I believe ‘saints’ refers to those on Earth.” Could you be wrong about this?

If someone disagrees with you, then what? How would we resolve your different interpretation from anothers?

Hi PRmerger,
here are the scriptures that I referenced, can you give me scriptures that would reference otherwise?
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of its heads as having been slain to death, and its deadly wound was healed. And all the earth marveled after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast. And they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with it?
Rev 13:5 And a mouth speaking great things was given to it, and blasphemies. And authority was given to it to continue forty-two months.
Rev 13:6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemy toward God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, and those dwelling in Heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given to it to war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given to it over every tribe and tongue and nation.
Rev 13:8 And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.

Here is what I can find in scriptures the description of a saint:
Act 9:13 And Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many of this man, how many evil things he has done to Your saints at Jerusalem.
Act 9:32 And it happened, passing through all, Peter also came down to the saints who lived at Lydda.
Act 26:10 which I also did in Jerusalem. And I shut up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests. And they being put to death, I cast a vote.

 

[Bradleyc]

It leaves me to wonder if Mary was born without sin, lived and died withouts sin as the writings indicate, then she would not have needed saving. And yet, she called him, her God and her savior after He had risen.

Why these inconsistancies in Catholic teachings about Mary? Am I again misunderstanding something perhaps?

Agreed,
if Mary lived without sin, then Jesus wasn’t Jesus…
it was Jesus that was the unblemished lamb that was a sufficient sacrifice, if Mary was unblemished then she could have been sacrificed for our sins instead of Jesus.

Rom 3:21 But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets;
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus Christ, toward all and upon all those who believe. For there is no difference,
**Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, **
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;
Rom 3:25 whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness through the passing by of the sins that had taken place before, in the forbearance of God;

 

[PRmerger]

B].there are scriptures that do WARN us not to seek the dead:
Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that uses divination, an observer of clouds, or a fortune-teller, or a witch,
Deu 18:11 or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, **or one who calls to the dead.
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination to Jehovah. **And because of these abominations Jehovah your God drives them out from before you.

Did Jesus not “seek the dead” at the Transfiguration? Weren’t Elijah and Moses “dead”?

 

[PRmerger]

It leaves me to wonder if Mary was born without sin, lived and died withouts sin as the writings indicate, then she would not have needed saving. And yet, she called him, her God and her savior after He had risen.

Why these inconsistancies in Catholic teachings about Mary? Am I again misunderstanding something perhaps?

She needed a Savior because she was saved from sin! God did this, hence God is her savior!

Analogy: there’s a huge pit in the woods. People fall in. Someone comes and rescues them from the pit. He’s their Savior.

Someone else comes and *before *she falls in the pit, Someone prevents her from falling in. She needed saving; she had a Savior, yes?

 

[PRmerger]

Hi PRmerger,
here are the scriptures that I referenced, can you give me scriptures that would reference otherwise?
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of its heads as having been slain to death, and its deadly wound was healed. And all the earth marveled after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast. And they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with it?
Rev 13:5 And a mouth speaking great things was given to it, and blasphemies. And authority was given to it to continue forty-two months.
Rev 13:6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemy toward God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, and those dwelling in Heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given to it to war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given to it over every tribe and tongue and nation.
Rev 13:8 And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.

Here is what I can find in scriptures the description of a saint:
Act 9:13 And Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many of this man, how many evil things he has done to Your saints at Jerusalem.
Act 9:32 And it happened, passing through all, Peter also came down to the saints who lived at Lydda.
Act 26:10 which I also did in Jerusalem. And I shut up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests. And they being put to death, I cast a vote.

Amen! The Church does not deny these descriptions of saints. We just don’t limit them to those on earth.

And, can you give me a Scripture that bans us from asking the saints in heaven to pray for us? Chapter and verse, please.

And you still haven’t answered the question about what we do when 2 different Christians differ on their individual interpretations of Scripture. My question was specifically about saying “I believe ___ in Scripture means ___” How do you know you are correct? Are you infallible?

 

[Bradleyc]

What part of God sparing His mother this thing that all of us who go to Heaven are supposed to aim for and eventually achieve is hard for you to understand? Only the pure of heart can see God… And certainly only the pure of heart could be the Mother of God and bear Him in her womb.

But again you are using your private interpretation, which no scripture is subject to – Instead of the authoritative interpretation of the Church founded by Jesus Christ, and witnessed throughout history in His saints.

This is the belief of the real Christians of history. That Mary is and has always been pure and free from sin.

Hi Shin,
Many Blessings to you!
the reason we need Christ is because we are NOT pure of heart and we can NEVER obtain a pure heart from our own actions:
Isa 64:6 But we are all as the unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as a menstruation cloth. And we all fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Rom 3:23 **for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; **Rom 3:25 **whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, **to declare His righteousness through the passing by of the sins that had taken place before, in the forbearance of God;

Rom 6:22 But now, being made free from sin, and having become slaves to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 **For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. **Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under Law, but under grace.
Rom 6:18 Then being made free from sin, you became the slaves of righteousness.

 

[PRmerger]

Hi Shin,
Many Blessings to you!
the reason we need Christ is because we are NOT pure of heart and we can NEVER obtain a pure heart from our own actions:
Isa 64:6 But we are all as the unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as a menstruation cloth. And we all fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Rom 3:23 **for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; **Rom 3:25 **whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, **to declare His righteousness through the passing by of the sins that had taken place before, in the forbearance of God;

Rom 6:22 But now, being made free from sin, and having become slaves to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 **For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. **Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under Law, but under grace.
Rom 6:18 Then being made free from sin, you became the slaves of righteousness.

Amen!

There’s nothing there that contradicts our doctrines on Mary!

BTW, if “all have sinned” means literally “ALL”, then would that include Jesus?

 

[christian1]

“Say the Rosary every day…
Pray, pray a lot and **offer sacrifices **for sinners…
I’m Our Lady of the Rosary.
Only I will be able to help you.
…In the end My Immaculate Heart will triumph.”

Our Lady at Fatima

T he word Rosary means “Crown of Roses”. Our Lady has revealed to several people that each time they say a Hail Mary they are giving her a beautiful rose and that each complete Rosary makes her a crown of roses.

The rose is the queen of flowers, and so the Rosary is the rose of all devotions and it is therefore the most important one.

(Even more so than the devotion to The Immaculate Heart of Jesus???)

The Holy Rosary is considered a perfect prayer because within it lies the awesome story of our salvation. With the Rosary in fact we meditate the mysteries of joy, of sorrow and the glory of Jesus and Mary. It’s a simple prayer, humble so much like Mary. It’s a prayer we can all say together with Her, the Mother of God. With the Hail Mary we invite Her to pray for us. Our Lady always grants our request.

(How unscriptural can it get?)

She joins Her prayer to ours. Therefore it becomes ever more useful, because what Mary asks She always receives, Jesus can never say no to whatever His Mother asks for.

(Wow, this is quite a revelation! Jesus can never say no to what His mother asks for! Mind you this is a .org website. An authority on Rosary devotion. If it’s teachings are in error, seems like this would severly divide the Catholic unity.)

In every apparition, the heavenly Mother has invited us to say the Rosary as a powerful weapon against evil, to bring us to true peace. With your prayer made together with Your heavenly Mother, you can obtain the great gift of bringing about a change of hearts and conversion. Each day, through prayer you can drive away from yourselves and from your homeland many dangers and many evils.
It can seem a repetitive prayer but instead it is like two sweethearts who many times say one another the words: “I love you”…

A devout exercise to perform praying the Rosary **to obtain any request **is the “54-day Rosary Novena” in honor of Our Lady of Pompeii.

(I find it sad that Mary did not clarify here she cannot grant just any request as it says, except those that fall within the will of Her Father. Or husband? I’m confused now.

The 15 promises
1 Whoever shall faithfully **serve me **by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive powerful graces.
2. **I promise my special protection **and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.
3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies
4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of people from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
5. **The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. **6. Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.
7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise.
9. **I shall **deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.
11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary.
12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.
13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death
14. All who recite the Rosary are my children, and brothers and sisters of my only Son, Jesus Christ.
**15. Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination. **

 

[Bradleyc]

Let’s break this down.

1. Do you think it is wrong to ask any Christian to pray for you?
2. Do you think those in heaven can pray?
3. Do you think those in heaven would pray for us if they could?
4. Do you think those in heaven can hear our requests?

Hi VociMike,
Many blessings to you.
I think what you are doing is using reason or logic from your own understanding.
Scriptures tell us the following:

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers will go forward to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue in the things that you have learned and have been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
2Ti 3:15 **and that from a babe you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **2Ti 3:16 **All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, **2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.

 

[christian1]

Child, thou has invoked me by various titles and hast always obtained favors from me. Now, since thou hast called me by that title so pleasing to me, ‘Queen of the Holy Rosary,’ I can no longer refuse the favor thou dost petition; for this name is most precious and dear to me. Make three novenas, and thou shalt obtain all."
Once more the Queen of the Holy Rosary appeared to her and said, " Whoever desires to obtain favors from me should make three novenas of the prayers of the Rosary, and three novenas in thanksgiving."

theholyrosary.org/

(Is this an illigitimate website falsely representing the position of the Catholic Teachings???)

 

[Bradleyc]

Hi VociMike,
Many blessings to you.
I think what you are doing is using reason or logic from your own understanding.
Scriptures tell us the following:

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers will go forward to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue in the things that you have learned and have been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
2Ti 3:15 **and that from a babe you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **2Ti 3:16 **All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, **2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.

sorry, i forgot one:
Pro 3:5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, and lean not to your own understanding.

 

[VociMike]

Hi VociMike,
Many blessings to you.
I think what you are doing is using reason or logic from your own understanding.

That’s an odd reply to my questions. Do you not use reason and logic every day to understand and implement God’s revelation? Is there something you fear about answering my questions?

Again, my questions were:

1. Do you think it is wrong to ask any Christian to pray for you?
2. Do you think those in heaven can pray?
3. Do you think those in heaven would pray for us if they could?
4. Do you think those in heaven can hear our requests?