Why does it say to "worship Mary" in an encyclical?

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It leaves me to wonder if Mary was born without sin, lived and died withouts sin as the writings indicate, then she would not have needed saving. And yet, she called him, her God and her savior after He had risen.

Why these inconsistancies in Catholic teachings about Mary? Am I again misunderstanding something perhaps?
Jesus did save Mary; He is her God and Savior. She called God her Savior in her Magnificat. He saved her, through His Cross, from ever experiencing sin. He saved us, through His Cross, from ever remaining in sin. The analogy that has been used for many centuries by the Fathers of the Church is this: One woman falls into a muddy pit and is injured. A man comes and saves her a few hours later. Another, about to fall into the pit is saved on the edge by someone else grabbing her and keeping her from falling in. Both women are equally saved, but the second was saved without experiencing the fall or the injury of sin. The power of the Cross saves both of these. The second woman, obviously, is Mary, and the first is all the rest of us sinners who are saved from remaining in sin. Jesus plucks us out of the pit, cleans us and heals the wounds our sinful natures inflict on us. The second woman, he saves from the pit too. But he saves her from ever having fallen in and become injured in the first place. The power of the Cross is greater than many suppose, and has more mysteries. God has all power and uses it as He sees fit.
 
On June 13 1917, accompanied by about 50 people, the children were reciting the rosary, when there was again the lightning, and immediately after the Lady on the holmoak appeared like in May. “What do you want from me?” asked Lucy. “I wish you to come here the 13th of next month; that you say the Rosary every day, and that you learn to read. In succeding months I will tell you what else I want.” “I would like to ask you to bring us to Heaven”, said Lucy. “Yes, Giacinta and Francis will be among the few, but you must stay here for a long time. Jesus wants to help Himself of you to make Me known and loved. God wishes you to remain in the world for some time because He wants to use you to establish in the world a devotion to my Immaculate Heart. I promise salvation to those who embrace it, and their souls will be loved by God as flowers placed by myself to adorn His throne.” Lucy asked: “Will I stay here alone”?, “Don’t be discouraged , I will not abandon you ever. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and through it will conduct you to God.” Then She opened her hands and emanated her light on the children, Giacinta and Francis seemed to be in the light that went up toward the sky, Lucy in the light that spread on the earth. In front of the palm of the right hand of the Lady there was a heart surrounded by thorns that impaled it. They understood that it was the Immaculate Heart of Mary affronted from the sins of men, and She then asked for reparation.

Same link as before.

All the apparitions promote Mary and the rosary not Christ. But were we not warned about devils that come as angels of light in order to deceive? These children were already dedicated rosary reciters and therefore opened the doorway to such spirits. And what have we to guard ourselves against such? Is not the Holy Word of God, our rear guard for such deception? Indeed deception will be abundant in the end times and the Word of God accompanied with the Holy Spirit, will protect those whom truly serve Him in spirit and in truth. Not by religious acts echoing the shadow of what was to come and has already manifested itself in the Man Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit, whom He sent that was to be our comforter, teacher and guide into truth.

It seems the Catholic Church has foolishly given this position to Mary and taken it from the Holy Spirit whom Jesus specifically appointed to such.
 
Amen! 👍

There’s nothing there that contradicts our doctrines on Mary!

BTW, if “all have sinned” means literally “ALL”, then would that include Jesus?
HI PRmerger,
Many blessings to you.

Let’s look at the scriptures:
1Pe 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, silver or gold, from your vain manner of life handed down from your fathers,
1Pe 1:19 **but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot; **1Pe 1:20 indeed having been foreknown before the foundation of the world, but revealed in the last times for you,

1Pe 2:21 For you were not called to this? For Christ also suffered on our behalf, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps,
1Pe 2:22 He who did no sin, nor was guile found in His mouth,

1Jn 3:5 And you know that He was revealed that He might take away our sins, **and in Him is no sin. **

Could you provide similar scriptures of any other person including Mary that say they have lived their entire life without sin?
 
It leaves me to wonder if Mary was born without sin, lived and died withouts sin as the writings indicate, then she would not have needed saving. And yet, she called him, her God and her savior after He had risen.

Why these inconsistancies in Catholic teachings about Mary? Am I again misunderstanding something perhaps?
Do you believe that one can be without sin on their own? Do you believe that one can do God’s will on their own? Do you reject the understanding that only with the aid of God’s grace can a person be without sin (be it for a moment, a day, a year, or an entire lifetime)? Do you reject the understanding that only with the aid of God’s grace can we ever do his will?

God is Mary’s savior because God provided her the grace without which she could not have remained without sin, and without which she could not have done his will.
 
Did Jesus not “seek the dead” at the Transfiguration? Weren’t Elijah and Moses “dead”? 🤷
Elijah never died… i don’t know the answer regarding Moses.
What are you referring to “seek the dead”
 
yo ask why worship mary, or any other saint, please read- jeremiah 10v1-5, u8nder no other name are we saved,–vinni
 
Prmerger you said: You cannot change the fact that we needed Mary to get to Jesus. It is a historical fact. Through Mary, Jesus came into the world. Your redemption was made possible by her Fiat–Let it be done unto me according to Thy Word!

??? Are you kidding? I suppose without Mary’s mother and Mary’s mothers mother etc. etc… it would be impossible for Mary to have given birth to Jesus also. Shouldn’t we include her in the mediation between man and Christ???

Though Christ makes it plain and not by private interpretation either but by your Cahtolic teaching, that Christ declared who his mother, brothers and sisters were. All of them one and the same are those who obey His Father.
 
Amen! The Church does not deny these descriptions of saints. We just don’t limit them to those on earth.

And, can you give me a Scripture that bans us from asking the saints in heaven to pray for us? Chapter and verse, please.

And you still haven’t answered the question about what we do when 2 different Christians differ on their individual interpretations of Scripture. My question was specifically about saying “I believe ___ in Scripture means ___” How do you know you are correct? Are you infallible?
.there are scriptures that do WARN us not to seek the dead:
Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that uses divination, an observer of clouds, or a fortune-teller, or a witch,
Deu 18:11 or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or one who calls to the dead.
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination to Jehovah. And because of these abominations Jehovah your God drives them out from before you.

as far as being infallable, i am not… but who on Earth is? We were always told that the Pope is, is that still true?

This is what I do rely upon, this is what we find in scripture:
Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And He searching the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. **And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth
**.
Joh 14:17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He dwells with you and shall be in you.
Joh 15:26 And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.
Gal 2:5 to whom not even for an hour did we yield in subjection, **that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. **
 
Vocimike you said: God is Mary’s savior because God provided her the grace without which she could not have remained without sin, and without which she could not have done his will.

Your starting to sound like a calvinest!

It was because of Mary’s free willed obedience to God that He chose her, not because He MADE her to obey through His grace.

It was first her free willed willingness that cooperated with God’s grace that enabled her to do as God commissioned which was carry the Christ into the world to save mankind. And if she had chosen to, she could have fallen from grace as many had done. The entire dogmas surrounding Mary from her sinless birth, evervirginity, assumption and now, completely sinless life, is a complete fabrication created by tradition of the Catholic Church. And for those of us that like to check doctrine against the inspired word of God are up a creek if we discover that the traditions nullify the word of God as the scribes and pharisees did and which Jesus condemned them for. And yet it continues today. The same devil is still at work in the Catholic traditions that limit our salvation through such doctrines!

If indeed you are the true church, then I suppose it is to you that Christ is addressing in revelation and telling to repent and if not He will remove you from your places if when He returns He finds you have not repented. This should be a clear heads up for the Catholic Church who claims salvation cannot exist outside of it (except under ignorance of the Church) that God does not consider your dogmas to be infallible or else He would have nothing to tell you to repent of.
 
Prmerger you said: She needed a Savior because she was saved from sin! God did this, hence God is her savior!

It’s amazing how Catholics can find an entirely different meaning for savior for one single person throughout the entire Bible but apply the actual meaning to the remaining.

Why do the Catholics feel the dire need to exalt Mary to an equal position with Christ?

Why didn’t God just use Mary as a sacrifice since she was born sinless, lived sinless and died sinless???
 
In addition, here are a couple of examples from the 1960’s:

“All men need someone to worship and adore,
That’s why I treasure you and place you high above.”

“I was made to love her,
Worship and adore her.”

The first is from a song by The Four Tops (Bernadette) and the second is from Stevie Wonder (I Was Made to Love Her).

I have yet to hear anybody complain about the use of “worship” and “adore” in these lyrics or criticize these artists for using them about somebody besides God.

I have to admit, though, when my husband used to say “I adore you” I used to say “only use that word in connection to God. But it’s okay to love me incredibly!”
 
To terraangel:

if we were talking about secular music and their foul usage of words I would be the first to condemn it.

If it makes a difference, (which you seem to think it does) then I openly denounce their word usage of worship.

I’m not picking on the Catholic Religion, but it is picking on me, telling me that unless I embrace their dogmas I cannot remain Catholic, or become Catholic and therefore am damned to Hell.
 
That’s an odd reply to my questions. Do you not use reason and logic every day to understand and implement God’s revelation? Is there something you fear about answering my questions?

Again, my questions were:
  1. Do you think it is wrong to ask any Christian to pray for you?
  2. Do you think those in heaven can pray?
  3. Do you think those in heaven would pray for us if they could?
  4. Do you think those in heaven can hear our requests?
Hi VociMike,
Many blessings to you!
I apologize if I have offended you, may you forgive me?

My point is that I think that scriptures would be best suited to answer those questions but i will elaborate.
No where in scripture does it tell us that people in heaven would pray for us, so, if it isn’t there i would assume that we should not do it…
Whether those in heaven can hear our requests is irrelevant…
Why would you pray to cousin Jethro when you can pray DIRECTLY to the Lord Himself?
 
if we were talking about secular music and their foul usage of words I would be the first to condemn it.

If it makes a difference, (which you seem to think it does) then I openly denounce their word usage of worship.

I’m not picking on the Catholic Religion, but it is picking on me, telling me that unless I embrace their dogmas I cannot remain Catholic, or become Catholic and therefore am damned to Hell.

More or less I was being humorous…
 
“Say the Rosary every day…
Pray, pray a lot and **offer sacrifices **for sinners…
I’m Our Lady of the Rosary.
Only I will be able to help you.
…In the end My Immaculate Heart will triumph.”

Our Lady at Fatima

T he word Rosary means “Crown of Roses”. Our Lady has revealed to several people that each time they say a Hail Mary they are giving her a beautiful rose and that each complete Rosary makes her a crown of roses.

The rose is the queen of flowers, and so the Rosary is the rose of all devotions and it is therefore the most important one.

(Even more so than the devotion to The Immaculate Heart of Jesus???)

The Holy Rosary is considered a perfect prayer because within it lies the awesome story of our salvation. With the Rosary in fact we meditate the mysteries of joy, of sorrow and the glory of Jesus and Mary. It’s a simple prayer, humble so much like Mary. It’s a prayer we can all say together with Her, the Mother of God. With the Hail Mary we invite Her to pray for us. Our Lady always grants our request.

(How unscriptural can it get?)

She joins Her prayer to ours. Therefore it becomes ever more useful, because what Mary asks She always receives, Jesus can never say no to whatever His Mother asks for.

(Wow, this is quite a revelation! Jesus can never say no to what His mother asks for! Mind you this is a .org website. An authority on Rosary devotion. If it’s teachings are in error, seems like this would severly divide the Catholic unity.)
Dear christian1, what seems wrong to you about saying Mary can receive any request she makes of her son? Remember, Jesus said to his followers in John 14:12-14, “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.” Mary is one of Jesus’ followers, so this passage applies to her as well as to us.

Consider also the following, from the Book of Daniel. Daniel 7:27: “The sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.” According to Sacred Scripture’s prophecies in Old Testament times, all power will be handed over to the saints of God. That time has come, for “Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.” Rev. 12:10. “To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne,” says the Lord (Rev. 3:21). The power and reality of the kingdom is manifested now, according to Scripture, and Mary, who overcame, sits with the Father on His throne in the inheritance of the saints.

But there is more we can see from Scripture on these matters than this. James 5:16 says, “Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective . . . are not those in Heaven the most righteous of all Christians? Are they not completely free from the stain of sin? Therefore Mary, being in Heaven, would have a far more potent prayer than any of us on Earth.

That doesn’t alone prove that she has more power than anyone in Heaven or that Jesus will do anything she asks for love of her. However, it provides a solid Biblical basis for her claim to complete authority when praying. We also know from Scripture that the saints in Heaven offer the prayers of people on Earth up to God (Rev. 5:8), that they directly interact with Christians on Earth (Matt. 17:1-9), and that they have the full authority and power of God to rule over the Earth (Dan. 7:27).

These are wondrous and sacred mysteries. To see further, to see from Scripture that Mary, of all the saints, is the most glorified and the most powerful, that the King Himself does whatever she asks, there are other Biblical passages we can turn to.

The following article includes a load of them. catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9812fea2.asp

I’ll just mention very quickly two important New Testament references. Elizabeth refers to Mary as the “Mother of my Lord,” which is the language used in the Near East of that era to refer only to the Queen Mother, a critical royal office of authority in all the kingdoms of the day. The Queen Mother was the right hand of the king. This Queen Mother, Mary, is the right hand of the King of Heaven as well, according to the title Elizabeth gave her.

This is the explicit acclaim to her position and authority by the saints in Scripture. We have a similarly clear declaration of her position and authority in the words of the angel Gabriel, the archangel of God, who addressed her with these words, “Hail, Full of Grace!” The use of the word “Hail,” is pretty amazing, as it is the word one uses toward rulers, not any normal person one is greeting. And Gabriel, who used that word, was an archangel! The logical inference is that he was treating her as his sovereign.

Then there’s Rev. 12, which describes the woman who gave birth to Jesus as a crowned and magnificent Queen of Heaven. And there are many other Biblical passages and references to Mary’s queenship as well, which the article I linked discusses. It’s not a terribly long article.

Enjoy. I hope this reading may bless you.
 
christian1 said:
“Say the Rosary every day…
Pray, pray a lot and offer sacrifices for sinners…
I’m Our Lady of the Rosary.
Only I will be able to help you.
…In the end My Immaculate Heart will triumph.”

Our Lady at Fatima

T he word Rosary means “Crown of Roses”. Our Lady has revealed to several people that each time they say a Hail Mary they are giving her a beautiful rose and that each complete Rosary makes her a crown of roses.

The rose is the queen of flowers, and so the Rosary is the rose of all devotions and it is therefore the most important one.

(Even more so than the devotion to The Immaculate Heart of Jesus???)

The Immaculate Heart of Mary is the path to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. These are one. This is why people who practice the Sacred Heart devotion very commonly practice also the Immaculate Heart devotion. To treat them as two separate things jockeying for hierarchical status is absurd. They are fused together, integrated and lovely. To try to place one as “more important” than the other is like trying to decide which leg you like best, your right leg or your left leg. It’s rather nonsensical and is not what the author of the article you were writing meant to talk about.
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christian1:
She joins Her prayer to ours. Therefore it becomes ever more useful, because what Mary asks She always receives, Jesus can never say no to whatever His Mother asks for.

(Wow, this is quite a revelation! Jesus can never say no to what His mother asks for! Mind you this is a .org website. An authority on Rosary devotion. If it’s teachings are in error, seems like this would severly divide the Catholic unity.)
How could Jesus ever say no to God’s will? What His Mother asks is always God’s will. There is no distinction between the will of God and the will of Mary. Therefore her prayers are always answered. To say she has “completely conquered God,” is akin to saying she has has “completely surrendered to God.” In surrender is victory. As Jesus said, “The meek shall inherit the Earth.”
 
Originally Posted by VociMike
Let’s break this down.
  1. Do you think it is wrong to ask any Christian to pray for you?
  2. Do you think those in heaven can pray?
  3. Do you think those in heaven would pray for us if they could?
  4. Do you think those in heaven can hear our requests?

I find it inconsistant to ask for our opinion when any other time we give it, we are told our opinions do not count when it comes to scripture. Are you actually going to consider my answer or is this just a bait to tell me, when it turns out contrary to your doctrines, that I am not one to interpret such things?

I will answer you regardless.

Do I think it’s wrong to ask any Christian to pray for us?

Not those that are alive. Paul said to pray for one another. If I wanted to petition somebody in Texas to pray for me, wouldn’t I have to be able to talk to them to petition it? The same goes for those in Heaven. I cannot reach them for we are separated by two worlds. I petition those who I can speak to by letter or phone or by mouth to pray for me. Why would I think that just because there are Christians in heaven that I should ask them to pray for me? I was never instructed to do that. I was insturcted to pray for one another.

Never is their an example of anyone praying to anyone who had passed save to Christ.

Is it wrong if I choose to not pray to anyone but God through the Holy Spirit???

Up until just TODAY I was always informed by Catholics that we don’t pray TO Mary or the saints we pray THROUGH them.

But I have discovered the opposite today. Confessed in the ecumenical letters and by several learned Catholics here, you DO pray TO Mary and the saints. And I have seen the prayers of others to her from devout Catholic sources. They are not praying and asking her to intercede, they are praying and asking her to ANSWER their prayer. This, my friend, no longer constitutes one asking for intercession from another Christian.

You guys should start being honest about what your ACTUALLY doing and stop tiptoeing around it. But I understand why you do. Because what you are doing is in stark contradiction to what scripture teaches about who to pray to and who to pray through.

To God, through His Son by the help of the Holy Spirit. Period. You should have stuck to the Word of God which was around from the beginning of time existing first in the Old Testament which dates way farther back than your Church. Regardless, it is not the origin of the Church in sin, but those who have nullified the word of God through useless traditions and dogmas as though the salvation of Christ alone had not been powerful enough and the commission of the Holy Spirit not able to do what it was commissioned by Christ to do.

To lead us into all truth. You have excommunicated me from the body of Christ on the grounds that I will not embrace your dogmas about Mary and the saints as though your traditions are more important that the salvation set forth in the Word of God.

You will have to answer for this. And according to the admonitions in Revelation concerning the seven churches of which you claim to be, it will not be tolerated much longer.
 
PRmerger;5162996:
Amen! The Church does not deny these descriptions of saints. We just don’t limit them to those on earth. QUOTE]

Hi Prmerger,
Blessings to you!

are you a saint?
A saint, in Catholic theology, is one who has been made completely perfect. They are in Heaven. We Christians on Earth are all saints in the making.
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christian1:
And for those of us that like to check doctrine against the inspired word of God are up a creek if we discover that the traditions nullify the word of God as the scribes and pharisees did and which Jesus condemned them for. And yet it continues today. The same devil is still at work in the Catholic traditions that limit our salvation through such doctrines!

If indeed you are the true church, then I suppose it is to you that Christ is addressing in revelation and telling to repent and if not He will remove you from your places if when He returns He finds you have not repented. This should be a clear heads up for the Catholic Church who claims salvation cannot exist outside of it (except under ignorance of the Church) that God does not consider your dogmas to be infallible or else He would have nothing to tell you to repent of.
See Psalm 87, a powerful and glorious expression of the teaching of the Church that outside of it is no salvation. Zion, of course, has two meanings, the Israel of the Old Testament and the New Israel of the New Testament, the Church.
Psalm 87:
1 A psalm of the Korahites. A song. The LORD loves the city founded on holy mountains,
2
2 Loves the gates of Zion more than any dwelling in Jacob.
3
Glorious things are said of you, O city of God! Selah
4
From Babylon and Egypt I count those who acknowledge the LORD. Philistia, Ethiopia, Tyre, of them it can be said: “This one was born there.”
5
3 But of Zion it must be said: "They all were born here."
The Most High confirms this;
6
the Lord notes in the register of the peoples: “This one was born here.” Selah
7
So all sing in their festive dance: "Within you is my true home."
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christian1:
Vocimike you said: God is Mary’s savior because God provided her the grace without which she could not have remained without sin, and without which she could not have done his will.

Your starting to sound like a calvinest!

It was because of Mary’s free willed obedience to God that He chose her, not because He MADE her to obey through His grace.

It was first her free willed willingness that cooperated with God’s grace that enabled her to do as God commissioned which was carry the Christ into the world to save mankind. And if she had chosen to, she could have fallen from grace as many had done.
We agree with this. God enabled Mary to live without succumbing to sin, but she had free will to reject His plan and fall as the first Eve had done.
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christian1:
The entire dogmas surrounding Mary from her sinless birth, evervirginity, assumption and now, completely sinless life, is a complete fabrication created by tradition of the Catholic Church.
Believing in the Traditions of the Catholic Church is what the Bible tells us to do in many, many places! See 2 Tim. 2:2, 2 Thess. 2:15, or 1 Cor. 11:2, for starters. The Traditions it refers to were those of the Catholic Church, for historically, that was the Church that existed back then and always from the very beginning.

Jesus said to His disciples (Luke 10:16), “He who hears you hears me.” The Tradition they passed on was the infallible voice of God, according to this verse, for one.

Look through this article, which discusses this issue in depth, if you want to learn more about the Catholic scriptures which describe Sacred Tradition.
catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp
 
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