P
PRmerger
Guest
Ok…I’m not sure where you get that interpretation from that verse…but Catholics do profess that those in heaven are ALIVE in Christ.
- Status
P
PRmerger
Guest
And who did the will of His Father more fully and more sublimely than the woman who said, “Be it done unto me according to Thy Word!”
A
andrea3710
Guest
Well you are welcome to prove me something else from the Bible if you can. If there is life after death then resurrection is not required. Purgatory- for example.It is said that Jesus will come and then He will judge people.So He would raise those who are in purgatory and hell then He would judge them after years and years in hell and sand back to Hell? Where is the logic in that theory. It would look that God is confused,well He is not.So you can “yike” all you want but cannot prove your theory from the Bible.Jesus never prayed to dead people or communicated with them nor Apostles did.That would be against very Bible teaching.I just pointed out that when He talked to Elijah and Moses they were not dead people.If Bible teaches that dead do not praise God and they know nothing so could they intercede for us? Someone lies,either Catholic doctrines or the Bible. There is possibility that those who got out of their tombs when Jesus died on the cross went to heaven,but if they did they were alive then,in the body. After that point Bible never mentioned anyone went to heaven.
Think why would some of the church saints be in heaven and David would not?! For He is still dead and waits for resurrection. Acts 2:29,34 Men and brethren,let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David,that he is both dead and buried,and his tomb is with us to this day. For David did not ascend into the heavens…
Acts 13:36 For David after he had served his own generation by the will of God ,fell asleep,was buried with his fathers,and saw corruption/decay.
A
andrea3710
Guest
I am not sure what point here are you making because it does not say anything of Mary being mediator or Queen of Heaven,it shows respect and obedience of God’ s servant Mary.
I can give another text where we see the obedience of people to God’s word.Actually I could give them so many but I do not have enough space nor time. John 17;6 I have manifested Your name to the men whom you have given Me out of the world .They were yours,You gave them to Me,and they have kept Your word.
Does that make them mediators? No it does not.Only the One without a spot,only the One who had no sin that was passed through Adam’s seed to all men and women, could be the Lamb to die for our sins and be the mediator. Nobody else can be that.I gave the texts from the Bible where Bible itself says that there is only one mediator,Jesus Christ.I do not see that God said Mary was mediator along with Jesus,do you?
A
andrea3710
Guest
Where did I get that interpretation. I am sorry but I can read,it say that Michael fought over the body not soul,does it not? I did not add nothing to it not taken from it. Not my words but the words of the Bible.What Catholic profess seem not to be in line with the Scripture.Many heretics lost their lives because they saw the difference in Catholic doctrine and Bible teachings.Ok…I’m not sure where you get that interpretation from that verse…but Catholics do profess that those in heaven are ALIVE in Christ.
But as we read in Revelation All the world marveled and followed the beast. And authority was given him over every tribe,tongue and nation and all who dwell on the earth will worship him…
I really do not believe Bible speaks of some other planet here. If it does speak of our planet then it must speak of us people and that majority will follow the false religion. By examples given you here of the teaching that is not according to Bible I would be on a high alert and think,and study to see the truth for myself not what others serve me. I really do not want to fight anyone here or play smart or proud. I really,sincerely,wish you would take the Bible and study yourself.Make notes,check what both sides tell you but let your mirror be the Bible.
A
andrea3710
Guest
The difference is that nor Jesus nor Apostles did that and they should be the example or we may end up on the other side and share the fate of Satan and his angles.This is serious thing.
God does not change. He once said: Isaiah 8:19,20 And when they say to you,Seek those who are mediums and wizards,who whisper and mutter,should not people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living?
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word it is because there is no light in them.
Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do,do it with thy might,for there is no work,nor device,nor knowledge,nor wisdom in the grave whither thou goest.
Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the Lord,neither any that go down into silence.
My friend,I am directing you to Jesus,and Jesus only.You should question those who point you to anyone else.The only door to Salvation is through Christ,Our redeemer.Satan knows that fact and his only task it to make you go away from Jesus and make you require things from someone else.He wants to demean Jesus and His ever precious gift-His sacrifice.Satan will unfortunately succeed in his task by deceiving many. He will perform miracles and wonders,apparitions of the saints and Mary. But Jesus warned us about that.He said not to believe that,for Satan is not coming as Satan but as an angel of light,performing miracles to devour whom he can,even the elected ones. Satan does many things but he does not sleep and watch peacefully people thrive in relationship with God and His Son. He will try to penetrate any possible shield we may have,even the greatest of the people of the past fell in some way.Our only greatest shield is the Word of God and through it we get the wisdom of the Holy Spirit who will teach us and direct us and protect us. Jesus is the only door to knock,if you knock to any other door you may get an answer but that will be the one of a Satan covered up behind a Saint. He will give you 95% truth and the rest of it is a lie,so in general what you see it will look like the right thing but it will not be. I am not sure can you understand what I mean. The big battle is right before us,please be ready,I really do not wish you be tricked into something that will cause you loose the grace only Jesus can give. Once again-please read the Bible and grow in wisdom. My friend’s priest said to her for you is the rosary and for us-priests is the Bible. Wrong and dangerous statement. If you do not know the Bible yourself how can you know what the lie is and how can you protect yourself from being deceived? Will you truly rely on the church leader to direct you? What if he is deceived? It says in the Revelation…for they are the spirits of the demons,performing signs,which go out to the KINGS OF THE EARTH and of the WHOLE WORLD…
A
andrea3710
Guest
My response would be all men sinned but Jesus who was that lamb without any blemish or spot. Hebrews 9;14 How much more shall the blood of Christ who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself WITHOUT SPOT TO GOD,purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this reason He is the mediator of the new covenant,by means of death,for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
If Jesus had even a little sin He would not be raised from the dead and there would be no Salvation or atonement for sin for the mankind.The whole sacrificial ceremony along with the temple were shadow of what had to be in the future,everything pointed to Jesus. The lamb they would choose to sacrifice had to be without any defect.
1.John 3;5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins and in Him there is no sin.
1.John 2:1 My little children,these things I write to you,that you may not sin.And if anyone sins,we have an Advocate with the Father,Jesus Christ the righteous…
Bible does not mention here any other person,no Saint no Mary,only Jesus-the only door to Salvation-the only Advocate who can fight for us against Satan.
Romans 5:9,12,21 Much more then having now been justified by His blood we shall be saved from wrath THROUGH HIM.
Therefore,just as through one man sin entered the world and death through sin,and thus death spread to all men.
…even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
In whose name we pray to Father in heaven
John 16:23,24 Most assuredly ,I say to you,whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.Until now you have asked nothing in My name .Ask and you will receive that your joy may be full.
What a wonderful promise from our Savior. Also here He taught His desciples that we pray to Father in the name of Jesus Christ,our Advocate,Mediator,nobody else,if there was someone else He would teach us so. Mary my friend is our dear sister who had that honor to give birth to our Savior,all these who do the will of our Father in Heaven and His Son Jesus Christ are our brothers and sisters in Christ. Peter was our brother too not some superior whom we have to bow down and kiss his feet. Peter denied any such thing when people tried to praise him as someone higher than others…Do you see how different the character and doctrine is. It is so simple but people complicated it for their own purpose. Jesus and Apostles were simple men. They did not live in golden mansions,they dressed simple,they were not proud…I do not wish anyone would see me as the one who hates any religion,I really do not.If I hated you or anyone of you I would not write as much especially not after my night shift.I really care about you all and I really wish we would inherit the promised glory when our dear Jesus Savior and Prince come to take us where He is. He said that He has to go to prepare the place for us and then He shall come with His angels and take us to eternity,no more death,tears,pain…I really wish You would come directly to Jesus and believe He is there for you. Nobody loves us as much He does for who can love us more than the One who gave His life for us and who can deserve more to be called and prayed to but the One who bled for us. Amen.
T
TLM08
Guest
Words mean stuff. Clearly in years past, Mary has gotten more attention than Jesus… at least among some catholics. While I agree she should be honored, some people go way overboard! No wonder the protestants got their shorts in a knot!
S
Shin
Guest
Everything about Mary IS about Jesus.Words mean stuff. Clearly in years past, Mary has gotten more attention than Jesus… at least among some catholics. While I agree she should be honored, some people go way overboard! No wonder the protestants got their shorts in a knot!
P
PRmerger
Guest
Then, Andrea, it’s not true that ALL have sinned. There’s exceptions, right?
It always puzzles me when protestants use that verse to indicate that Mary must have sinned. Yet, it would indict Our Lord as a sinner as well.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Who says that? Certainly not the Church!
A
andrea3710
Guest
I believed that you had the knowledge of the Bible and that you would fill in the rest of the words,I was of thinking that you knew the verse and that you need no explanation but I was wrong. All sinned but Jesus did not. As Mary is not Jesus and is born of both earthly parents she is a sinner too. Otherwise she would not need to give birth to Jesus but be able to be sacrifice herself.Then, Andrea, it’s not true that ALL have sinned. There’s exceptions, right?
It always puzzles me when protestants use that verse to indicate that Mary must have sinned. Yet, it would indict Our Lord as a sinner as well.
A
andrea3710
Guest
Well that was my question for you. If the judgment day is going to be according to the Bible when Jesus comes and if according to Catholic doctrine many are already in hell and in purgatory so then when Jesus comes are this already sentenced people to hell be raised back to life and then face the judgment day and then be judged to hell again? They were in hell without being previously judged,for I repeat the judgment day is when Jesus comes?? Please explain that to me for I do not understand.Who says that? Certainly not the Church!
P
PRmerger
Guest
Um…Andrea? It does NOT say All sinned but Jesus. :bigyikes: Wow. By your logic I could say All sinned but Mary did not.
It says ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
A
andrea3710
Guest
Where do you read that Mary did not sin in the Bible and that Jesus was not the only without sin. Show me that verse please because I gave you many texts.Where do you read in the Bible that Mary is mediatrix?
T
taylor2
Guest
andrea3710, by what I am reading of your comments, I think you are one very confused person. If there was no authority to interpret the scriptures, then how does one interpret it? By their own understanding of it? Wouldn’t that open up the possibility of misinterpretation?
Just thought I would also mention that you only have your bible thanks to the Catholic Church. Do your research. It seems from your posts that you consider your interpretation to be the correct one. I would rather listen to the church that has produced countless saints. “by their fruits ye shall no them”.
You seem obsessed with demonic activity that maybe you should ask if you are the one being misled. You keep kicking against Jesus’ church. Jesus said that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide and protect the church and that church is the Catholic Church. Maybe you should stop kicking against it and learn what it really teaches. Put away that pride that you are showing with your comments and learn what the church really teaches.
B
Bradleyc
Guest
HI PRmerger,
Blessings to you!
Isaiah 8:19 When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?
1Ti 2:5 For God is one, and there is one Mediator of God and of men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Heb 4:14 Since then we have a great High Priest who has passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
**Heb 4:15 ** For we do not have a high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted just as we are, yet without sin.
**Heb 4:16 ** Therefore let us come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Deu 18:11 or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, **or one who calls to the dead. **
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination to Jehovah. And because of these abominations Jehovah your God drives them out from before you.
It is CLEAR, that scriptures warn us from talking to the dead, we are instructed to talk to ONE being only and that is Jesus Christ.
As far as the transfiguration, that was to prove to the Jews that Jesus was ABOVE moses and Elijah… do you remember when Peter wanted to make THREE alters instead of ONE?
Why did Moses and Elijah appear with Him? This is where the events of Matthew 16 become important. These two servants of God were the most revered among all the Old Testament figures. Moses, the Great Lawgiver personified the Law, and Elijah, the Archetypal Prophet, the Prophets. Evidently, the vision depicted Moses and Elijah speaking to Jesus in a servant-Master relationship, but the disciples failed to see this vital distinction:
Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. (Matthew 17:4-6)
Notice how Peter puts it. "Let’s make three tabernacles, one for each of you
Blessings to you!
How is that a good foreshadowing of Mary’s assumption? what scriptural reference do you have for this claim?
?
First of all, it is within the right of Jesus to interact with the dead, he is God, but it is not our right, scriptures WARN us from doing it:
Isaiah 8:19 When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?
1Ti 2:5 For God is one, and there is one Mediator of God and of men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Heb 4:14 Since then we have a great High Priest who has passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
**Heb 4:15 ** For we do not have a high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted just as we are, yet without sin.
**Heb 4:16 ** Therefore let us come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Deu 18:11 or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, **or one who calls to the dead. **
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination to Jehovah. And because of these abominations Jehovah your God drives them out from before you.
It is CLEAR, that scriptures warn us from talking to the dead, we are instructed to talk to ONE being only and that is Jesus Christ.
As far as the transfiguration, that was to prove to the Jews that Jesus was ABOVE moses and Elijah… do you remember when Peter wanted to make THREE alters instead of ONE?
Why did Moses and Elijah appear with Him? This is where the events of Matthew 16 become important. These two servants of God were the most revered among all the Old Testament figures. Moses, the Great Lawgiver personified the Law, and Elijah, the Archetypal Prophet, the Prophets. Evidently, the vision depicted Moses and Elijah speaking to Jesus in a servant-Master relationship, but the disciples failed to see this vital distinction:
Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. (Matthew 17:4-6)
Notice how Peter puts it. "Let’s make three tabernacles, one for each of you
B
Bradleyc
Guest
Where in scripture does it tell us that Mary lived without sin, or without blemish?Then, Andrea, it’s not true that ALL have sinned. There’s exceptions, right?
It always puzzles me when protestants use that verse to indicate that Mary must have sinned. Yet, it would indict Our Lord as a sinner as well.
this is heresy… she was blessed by God because she was in the blood line that our savior was to come and was foretold.
but scriptures are pretty clear that all man have sinned and scriptures are pretty clear that the reason that Jesus was our sacrifice is becuase he was the Lamb without blemish, a man that did not sin… JESUS was the ONLY EXCEPTION, that is why he was so important to our salvation… if any other man or woman could have been without sin than they could have died on the cross instead of Jesus… i have listed these scriptures before, should I list them again?
can you please use scriptures to prove your point with that? by what authority do you speak?
B
Bradleyc
Guest
HI PRmerger,
Can you provide scripture reference for this?
B
Bradleyc
Guest
I am glad to see that you find God’s Word important, but i notice that scripture is not widely used by some of the Catholics defending their faith… is it because they are not familiar with scripture? i generally see this comment in most of the rebuttals: “that is your interpretation, we have an authority for our interpretation” if that is true then why is it that some revert back to the teachings from Catechism (which is something we attended in grade school), did the teaching stop there? If we have the “authority” on scripture we should know it and know it well, would you agree?Your not being Catholic does not damn you to Hell.
You, however, can damn yourself to hell by obstinately refusing to accept Our Lord’s teachings once you have been properly and fully catechized. If you reject God’s Word, as fully revealed, then you reject God.
In Catechism we have learned about the sacraments, we learned about saying the rosary, we learned some of the bible stories about Moses, Noah, Jesus, etc. Some of those of which are NOT scriptural and have no foundation on truth (Rosary and sacraments (as they were taught) as an example)
Can we believe that since we were baptized as a Catholic, honor the sacraments, attend mass weekly… yet we know nothing about God’s holy word, we are NOT generous with our tithes and offerings, we do not evangelize as commanded in scripture, we don’t live holy lives… that we are going to be saved?? Just because we are Catholics we are going to be saved?
When was this revealed to you? in Mass?
- Status