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St_Francis
Guest
I see God as the parent of adults… letting His children make their own decisions even when they are really dumb decisions. He wants us to come to Him freely. How can we do that without the option of rejecting Him?
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Aloysium
Guest
Rocks can’t choose. They do exist but don’t relate. They just sit there and change. They crumble, erode, melt, but they never suffer. They never yearn, and they never love.
You do have free will; this is how you become yourself. As an eternal being, you choose your destiny. So, I think we would all agree that the situation is rather serious.
One can cry, whine, get angry, despair, but in the end one has to act. You seem to have supplied the answer as to how we should be. We should wish to be God’s slave all the time. The alternative is to be a slave to sin. That’s the choice: free will.
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mikekle
Guest
well, the real question is…what implications, if any result due to Satan ‘winning’ over more souls than God? Ive wondered about this quite often, as in modern times, it is easy to see how many people are corrupted by evil and are completely content living like this, plus the fact that the bible itself says not that many people will even make it to heaven, so if that is true, then there is ALOT of souls that dont make it and they have to go somewhere…right?
I think there is more to this than we know, after all, we all know for a fact we are not given ALL the facts, only what God sees fit for us to be aware of…I think its quite possible there are implications to the one who ‘wins over’ or better word would be managed to successfully influence, the greater number of souls. This would really show that entity(whomever it may be) had greater sway over a majority of people. thats the way I see it anyway.
And really, since God saw all this before any of us were created, another question would be, why would God, (knowing all this to be true and a greater majority of souls HE breathed life into), would end up in hell instead of in Heaven? This is pretty serious imo, By the way, what kind of motive for God is that?
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Robertanthony
Guest
There is something that just doesn’t add up. Christ suffered, but he suffered willingly. He said, “Ok dad, I’m willing to have three bad years and three horrible days to reconcile those bastards with us”. I’ve had more than my share of suffering, my dad was an emotionally frozen, angry, alcoholic, pious Catholic, yeah I had a dream childhood (sic), i suffered because of others’ poor choices/free will, but why God decided to equip me with a sub-par genetic material is all his fault. Why he never said (about my introverted, pathologically shy personality, my depression and anxiety) “Be healed” has nothing to do with anyone’s free will but it has to do with God’s rotten or absent heart. God is omni freaking potent, all powerful, almighty, there is a hell of a lot he can do without stepping on anyone’s sacro saint free will. Your dad died because you loved him (because God is not interested in taking someone from you who is a burden or a pain to you), I’ve never loved my dad, oftentimes when he’d get back from work, I’d wonder ‘Why are you even alive, I mean car accidents happen?" Mark my words: he will outlive me. God is out to frustrate, that’s his essence, his nature, identity. If he wanted me vibrant, glowing, happy, believe me it’d make it happen, very easily. A little money here, a little healing there, you’d laugh if i told you how many times I’ve begged God with genuine tears in my eyes’ “Please God help me, change me, heal me, take the tiny part of my heart that this life has not closed completely and change me”. Mark my words, look it up, it comes from the French: God is the quintessential dolorist. Nothing else makes sense. He thrives on suffering, on others’ suffering, that is. I’ve never got the part about God being perfect, loving, omnibenevolent (all good). Jesus chose to be ridiculed, to be spat on, to be rejected, to be incarnate, no matter how I try to remember, I have never said “yes” to this life. The kind of life I’ve been given is the cram-down-your-throat-till-you-can’t-breathe type of gift. How many thousands of people who feel stuck in a life they’d rather not be in, all because God was overflowing with love and was eager to bring these people into their nightmare. If God is prescient, then he is simply not loving. We’ve only skimmed over God’s awesomeness in the temporal realm, we’ve not mentioned the eternity of hell for fragile human beings. i hate being alive, hate my life, I hate who I am, I hate being a dumb loser, and I also hate above all the one who is responsible for my being in this nightmare*: God. Nonexistence, miscarriage, abortion, sudden infant death, anything but this life, dear loving God. I feel sorry for the people who turn to God for help and comfort. Dust, silence or crumbs is all he’s willing, in all his magnanimity, to reluctantly let go of. At least Satan can’t create new life, unlike our loving God. If you want sorrow, trouble and affliction, go to God, he’ll be happy to oblige. Happy Easter everyone…
*This life is a part of it, God’s hell is the definitve part of it, all because I can’t bring myself to sing the praises of God. Saying God is awesome, for me, would be like saying wieners are a delicacy. The ultimate source of my trouble—>God.
Jesus No loving God=no afflicted Robertanthony, weary and disheartened. I’m around because my loving God decreed that I was gonna be his little puppet, whether I liked it or not did not enter the equation Now tall me how God is praiseworthy because he respects our (drumrolls) free-will.
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kkollwitz
Guest
Sin distorts our perception such that we think evil is stronger than it really is.
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Robertanthony
Guest
If I could give you a break, I would, God on the hand can, but won’t. But, y’know, I’m a stupid sinful mortal, God is so much better than me.
People will tell you dumb things, for instance that if you suffer, it’s because Jesus loves you very, very much, because the only people he treats like dirt are his friends. It was very easy for God to keep your dad alive, very easy. It was very easy for God to take my dad to the Father’s house much sooner. Don’t worry Jesus will get me in the end for not getting in line and saying “Yes, master, whatever you say, kind and loving master”. “Depart from me, you accursed”
Jesus
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St_Francis
Guest
Robert,
Do you read the lives of the saints? Like St Germaine, whose wicked stepmother sent her to live in the barn when she was just a child? Like the martyrs who were tortured and put to death? St Herman, born with cerebral palsy and spina bifida? and many others who endured pain and difficulties through their lives.
Do you understand why Christ “volunteered” to suffer and die as He did? It was because of and to show His great love for us. These saints loved God: He was the good in their lives. They did not wonder why they were afflicted; they thought, why not me?
The pain we experience is so much worse when we bear it alone by fighting against God. When we instead turn towards Him, offer up our suffering in unity with His suffering for us, then He can be with us, and the suffering in our lives becomes a mere bagatelle compared to our friendship with Christ our Redeemer.
He loves you and is waiting for you to turn to Him.
Do you read the lives of the saints? Like St Germaine, whose wicked stepmother sent her to live in the barn when she was just a child? Like the martyrs who were tortured and put to death? St Herman, born with cerebral palsy and spina bifida? and many others who endured pain and difficulties through their lives.
Do you understand why Christ “volunteered” to suffer and die as He did? It was because of and to show His great love for us. These saints loved God: He was the good in their lives. They did not wonder why they were afflicted; they thought, why not me?
The pain we experience is so much worse when we bear it alone by fighting against God. When we instead turn towards Him, offer up our suffering in unity with His suffering for us, then He can be with us, and the suffering in our lives becomes a mere bagatelle compared to our friendship with Christ our Redeemer.
He loves you and is waiting for you to turn to Him.
J
JRKH
Guest
I ran across this thread this morning…and immediately thought of this discussion.
If the elderly couple in the linked thread had died, or if someone had grabbed her purse - or some other evil had befallen them - instead of someone helping them - it would have been on the news, or in the paper. But - because they were all right, because they were helped, because nothing evil occurred, The world will never hear of this.
Such good, loving, things happen millions of times every day all over the world. A person holds a door, helps an older person to their car, gets something off of a high shelf, cut the grass (without pay) of someone who can’t anymore buys a sandwich for someone hungry, gives to a charity and/or volunteers…the list goes on…
Just thought I’d share…
Peace
James
If the elderly couple in the linked thread had died, or if someone had grabbed her purse - or some other evil had befallen them - instead of someone helping them - it would have been on the news, or in the paper. But - because they were all right, because they were helped, because nothing evil occurred, The world will never hear of this.
Such good, loving, things happen millions of times every day all over the world. A person holds a door, helps an older person to their car, gets something off of a high shelf, cut the grass (without pay) of someone who can’t anymore buys a sandwich for someone hungry, gives to a charity and/or volunteers…the list goes on…
Just thought I’d share…
Peace
James
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Aloysium
Guest
Sorry for the intrusion; your situation sounds serious and needs to be addressed.
With regards to your quote, it appears from your previous post that you’ve been saying this to yourself and to life for too long. You will not hear it from Jesus, who in His infinite compassion knows you far better than you know yourself.
I’m not saying what follows as a criticism, as you clearly have to do something with the poison and misery inside yourself, but I don’t think vomiting it up on the monitor is doing you much good. It’s like punching a wall: it acts out the suffering, with only temporary relief and no change. Actually, in your case the “wall” is yourself: you call yourself a loser, tell yourself you don’t deserve to live, and thrive on your own suffering. I was not going to reply to your posts, sensing that I’ll be classed with all the others who have put you down all your life. Again, your anger and hate are being directed sadistically to the only person who cannot escape your grasp - yourself.
The negativity that you describe has emerged through your interactions with the world. You have played a role in this, and you can change. God can be approached to guide us to see the world as it is and not succumb to its illusions. But as you say "I’ve begged God with genuine tears in my eyes ‘Please God help me, change me, heal me, take the tiny part of my heart that this life has not closed completely and change me’ ". I know He is trying to help you through this chronic nightmarish situation. I think that to escape your true tormentor, you should continue praying, participate in the mass and sacraments, and fight this addiction to acting out your hurts. One can escape the chains that bind one to past and present hurts, deficiencies and failures; it is not easy, and likely impossible to do it on one’s own. I believe that in time, the tiny part of your heart that has not been crushed by the world will grow and, because of your acute knowledge of suffering and the battles of life, you will become a more compassionate person than many others.
Your wish that everyone have a happy Easter sounded sarcastic in the context of your post. I do wish you a happy Easter: the triumph of love and life over death. I am sure people who read your comments will be praying for you.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Evil seems stronger than good because it destroys. But it’s easier to destroy than to build.
Evil takes the easiest route every time.
Remember how easy it was for Hitler to destroy. But his evil was in turn destroyed.
Evil ultimately turns on and devours itself when it runs out of things to destroy.
Evil takes the easiest route every time.
Remember how easy it was for Hitler to destroy. But his evil was in turn destroyed.
Evil ultimately turns on and devours itself when it runs out of things to destroy.
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Richca
Guest
Hello mikekle,
Of course God knew before he created the universe that some of his creatures possessed with an intellectual nature would not want to be subject to their creator by their own free will and thus end up for an eternity in hell. God also knew that he could not bestow a greater good on a creature than a share in His own beatitude. St Thomas Aquinas says that of three things God could not make better one is the beatitude of creatures that possess an intellectual nature in which we are made in the image of God such as angels and human beings. For our beatitude consists in the vision of God Himself in whom there is nothing greater.
God created angels and human beings in His own image with an intellect and free will so that they can know and love God and have a share in His beatitude. God obviously knew that though some of His creatures would not want to be subject to Him, He also knew that many of them would love Him and gain eternal life.
The life of sanctifying grace by which we partake in the divine nature is a good far above any natural good. Thomas Aquinas says that the good of grace in one is greater than the natural good of the entire universe.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Is appears the faith could be the cause of the fear. So I suppose servile fear and filial fear come into play and is probably a point to investigate in relation to oneself.
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tonyrey
Guest
Evil** is often stronger than good in this world**. There is no final answer to the bullet or bomb. Many innocent people die because they are killed as the result of pride, greed, envy, jealousy, hatred or the lust for power. Many more die from malnutrition, disease and even starvation because of the gross injustice and inequality in the world.
The harsh reality of evil is itself a reason to believe materialism is false. In a Godless universe morality is meaningless…
The harsh reality of evil is itself a reason to believe materialism is false. In a Godless universe morality is meaningless…
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tonyrey
Guest
Evil is certainly destructive and self-destructive but sometimes it is the result of months or even years of meticulous planning and preparation - as in the case of the Holocaust…
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mikekle
Guest
Yes, he wants people to come to him freely, as he did not want a race of robots loyal to him only because he made them this way, BUT I think alot of people turn to religion and God simply because they fear death, or not existing anymore, not sure what happens in the afterlife and want to have all the possibilities covered just in case, I also think alot of people turn to God out of fear of going to hell…this is all fine, they are all using their free will.
Then we have some people, that are evil in nature, they commit violent crimes, are hateful towards their fellow people, and dont really care about religion, God, or the afterlife, they are only concerned with the here and now and how ‘much’ they can get for themselves any way they can, these people are also using their free will and probably will welcome hell, as an existence without God is exactly what they are used to, so that is what they likely want, they surely dont want to spend time with God.
But then we have another type of person, they are generally nice people, help others whenever they have the opportunity, are NOT evil in nature, they do not commit crimes or any kind, and are generally good people…BUT, they are not religious, by choice, maybe its because they grew up in a house where religion was not spoken of or was not encouraged, etc, but they still grew up having good morals and knowing right from wrong.I know many many people like this, these people are also using their free will, BUT when these people die, many would say they end up in hell, alongside the evil people who desire to be there???
How can this be? It seems when they use their free will but it does include God, they are somehow wrong, or deserve to be punished for their use of free will…? There really needs to be a third option in the afterlife, a neutral place.
After all, regarding our free will…there really should be NO ‘wrong choice’, its whatever we as people decide to do with our lives, some may choose not to include God, but that is their right, why should be they be punished for it in the end though?
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hakop
Guest
Life is like a desert, there are those who are parched, and will resort to evil things in order to get water. God does not approve of such things, for it is a misuse of our holy will, meant to be used to serve in fear and adoration, God. However, in this desert, there are those who will willingly suffer, loss of material goods such as water or food, for the sake of not offending or disobeying the most High Father, God through doing evil for a material good.
Now the earth, is filled with those who, like the parched in the desert, resort to evil deeds and evil hearts which are corrupted with malice and envy and other sins, who conduct these evil acts in order to get these material goods. The devil is the prince of all evil, whenever one desires to do evil fora meaningless item, the devil appears within them, conquers them and makes them resort to this thing, because the devil takes pride in taking souls from God, he is enthused about continuing in his disobedience to God, and taking as many of us mortals along with him, however, Lord Jesus, taught us all that is needed for us to not have our souls taken, to not resort to the evil deeds seemingly required in order to get these transitory goods. He taught us that suffering for good is infinitely more good and pleasing to the Father almighty, then doing evil for a material object.
Now the earth, is conquered by those who have forsaken the good way of suffering, which is inconveniant, in exchange for the evil ways of the world, in order to gain these worthless prizes and rewards, which fade and decay and that you cannot take with you to the eternal life or after life.God realizes the truth of all things good, and it does not rely on doing evil for goods, in this desert wasteland we call earth life. What is most pleasing to God is for us to listen to His Son, who taught us that suffering for good is infinitely more valuable than doing evil for any merchandise or transitory earthly good. Our comfort is not of importance to God, He requires more holiness from us. He requires us to be like Him, in His infinite goodness. We must just try to be like Him, conquering evil within ourselves, no matter what the devil imposes on us, and continue with the path of righteousness and salvation that our Lord Jesus taught us.
Now the earth, is filled with those who, like the parched in the desert, resort to evil deeds and evil hearts which are corrupted with malice and envy and other sins, who conduct these evil acts in order to get these material goods. The devil is the prince of all evil, whenever one desires to do evil fora meaningless item, the devil appears within them, conquers them and makes them resort to this thing, because the devil takes pride in taking souls from God, he is enthused about continuing in his disobedience to God, and taking as many of us mortals along with him, however, Lord Jesus, taught us all that is needed for us to not have our souls taken, to not resort to the evil deeds seemingly required in order to get these transitory goods. He taught us that suffering for good is infinitely more good and pleasing to the Father almighty, then doing evil for a material object.
Now the earth, is conquered by those who have forsaken the good way of suffering, which is inconveniant, in exchange for the evil ways of the world, in order to gain these worthless prizes and rewards, which fade and decay and that you cannot take with you to the eternal life or after life.God realizes the truth of all things good, and it does not rely on doing evil for goods, in this desert wasteland we call earth life. What is most pleasing to God is for us to listen to His Son, who taught us that suffering for good is infinitely more valuable than doing evil for any merchandise or transitory earthly good. Our comfort is not of importance to God, He requires more holiness from us. He requires us to be like Him, in His infinite goodness. We must just try to be like Him, conquering evil within ourselves, no matter what the devil imposes on us, and continue with the path of righteousness and salvation that our Lord Jesus taught us.
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tonyrey
Guest
They are not punished for anything! They punish themselves as the result of filial ingratitude. In this world those who ignore their parents are regarded as despicable because are not grateful for the love and care bestowed on them during their childhood. Why should it be different with our Creator to whom we owe everything?
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Evil often looks stronger than good, but it isn’t. Never ever believe that evil is stronger than good. That’s what Satan wants people to believe, and he is the father of all lies. Good is ALWAYS stronger than evil, and God is MUCH stronger than Satan.
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mikekle
Guest
So hell is not a punishment? If this is true, then I assume there is no suffering there then, if hell is JUST a separation from God, then for those people, hell will basically just be an extension of their earthly lives, and if they did not suffer in their lives, why would they suffer in the afterlife…after all, they decided to live without God freely, and if no negativity came from it in their earthly lives, Im assuming it will be the same in the afterlife…why would it be any different for them?
The difference between our earthly parents and God is (according to come christians), most loving parents will ALWAYS be there and wish the best for their child, no matter what they have done, or even if they have not asked for help or forgiveness…earthly parents are not concerned with that, they will always be there for their child, even if they dont ask. Plus, once we die, in Gods opinion, our chances are done, NO earthly parent would ever give any kind of ‘deadline’ after which, nothing they do will matter! I dont care if the child has been dead for 30 years, that parent would STILL forgive that child and welcome them back with open arms.
This is one reason why I personally dont believe our earthly death matters that much to God, he says his love is much greater than a parent for their child, so if this is true, then God would go to even greater lengths for his children, giving someone a deadline is not something any parent would ever do.
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Thorns
Guest
Evil feels stronger than good because we are wounded and weak.
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