Why does it take so long to become Catholic?

[PJM]

=joandarc2008;6765053]Reason 1- There are certain Rites you have to receive as part of the process leading up to your Sacraments

Reason 2- The Catholic Church is about Community - we learn in community and we take our Sacraments (minus Reconciliation for obvious reasons) in community

Reason 3- If you have absolutely outstanding reasons why you don’t fit into the parameters - one young man I knew that came back from practicing necromacy - the priest can get permission from the Archbishop to confirm you in private at another time but you will still need to go through part of the classes depending on where the priest and the archbishop feels you are at.

It seems to me, and I don’t mean to be blunt- that you are coming in with a spirit of what you can take from Christ and not what you can give. If you ARE as advanced as you say in your spiritual studies why should not be in class in order to help others with their growth and study and journey. Or do you plan on coming to Church for Sacraments and leaving and not doing service to Christ? It is not what we take from Him - it is what we give for Him - and this is the basis of community that makes a Church and that is one of the very first and most important lessons you should learn in any religious teaching - SO maybe you should be in RCIA after all.

Having taught RCIA for three years and an additional year of adult catechesis, I’d like to clarily the satement about the being about community."

It has ben my experience that this is an area where the CC seems to fall short of the expetiations of many Protestants.

I beleive in the context the term was used that it is correct, howvever as the Catholic Mass focus in not community; rather it is on the re-presenation of the Sacrifice of Christ, who is miracously made Present to us; I have heard concerns that we are “cold” and seemingly distant and uncerned.

Followship in our Catholic community takes place outside of the Mass, and it’s supposed to take side outside of th Sanctury [but you’d never know this in most churches today]. This is because in many CC Jesus is reserveredn and REALLY Present in the reservation Tabernacle; usually in the front part of the Church. So out of respect for Him, we maintain slience. Sadly a great deal of Protestant behavior has creept into the CC since Vatican II.

I say sadly because while it is approiate for Protestants where Christ is NOT Really present; [Glorified Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity]; but completely inapproiate for us.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[joandarc2008]

Having taught RCIA for three years and an additional year of adult catechesis, I’d like to clarily the satement about the being about community."

It has ben my experience that this is an area where the CC seems to fall short of the expetiations of many Protestants.

I beleive in the context the term was used that it is correct, howvever as the Catholic Mass focus in not community; rather it is on the re-presenation of the Sacrifice of Christ, who is miracously made Present to us; I have heard concerns that we are “cold” and seemingly distant and uncerned.

Followship in our Catholic community takes place outside of the Mass, and it’s supposed to take side outside of th Sanctury [but you’d never know this in most churches today]. This is because in many CC Jesus is reserveredn and REALLY Present in the reservation Tabernacle; usually in the front part of the Church. So out of respect for Him, we maintain slience. Sadly a great deal of Protestant behavior has creept into the CC since Vatican II.

I say sadly because while it is approiate for Protestants where Christ is NOT Really present; [Glorified Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity]; but completely inapproiate for us.

Love and prayers,
Pat

Thank you, Pat, I can completely see how my comments can be mistaken coming from a Protestant Church. I have been studying the Franciscan ways and much of the Church does center around community - so let me clarify.

While we do have reverence and silent prayer for the glorified Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Eucharist during the Transubstantiation - we enter Communion with our Community and all of the Saints and Christ and Mary and the Lord. So one of the things I believe IMHO we pick up in RCIA - or START- to pick up in RCIA is the overwhelming sense of what it feels like to be a part of that large community without all that singing and dancing in the aisles. It is a reverent community. It is about finding a place in it and finding what we can do for it and not what it can do for us. Just as Christ washed the feet of the Disciples that would later deny Him…

 

[fdesales]

Thank you, Pat, I can completely see how my comments can be mistaken coming from a Protestant Church. I have been studying the Franciscan ways and much of the Church does center around community - so let me clarify.

While we do have reverence and silent prayer for the glorified Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Eucharist during the Transubstantiation - we enter Communion with our Community and all of the Saints and Christ and Mary and the Lord. So one of the things I believe IMHO we pick up in RCIA - or START- to pick up in RCIA is the overwhelming sense of what it feels like to be a part of that large community without all that singing and dancing in the aisles. It is a reverent community. It is about finding a place in it and finding what we can do for it and not what it can do for us. Just as Christ washed the feet of the Disciples that would later deny Him…

Good, and PJM, also…

This seems to be expected, when one reads Scriptures and finds that Paul et. al. were not concerned so much with imparting “book knowledge” onto individuals as in forming communities based upon mutual love. We see it often enough in the common useage of “brothers” “sisters”, “sons”, “fathers” and so forth when describing inter-relationships within the church. Many non-Catholics miss out on this biblical concept, or treat it as a secondary consideration to personal salvation as the heart of the Gospel.

RCIA, being an ancient practice, no doubt recognizes the importance of building up the community and placing the individual into that community.

Regards

 

[onthenarrowpath]

It seems to me, and I don’t mean to be blunt- that you are coming in with a spirit of what you can take from Christ and not what you can give. If you ARE as advanced as you say in your spiritual studies why should not be in class in order to help others with their growth and study and journey. Or do you plan on coming to Church for Sacraments and leaving and not doing service to Christ? It is not what we take from Him - it is what we give for Him - and this is the basis of community that makes a Church and that is one of the very first and most important lessons you should learn in any religious teaching - SO maybe you should be in RCIA after all.

For as much as you said you didn’t mean to be blunt, you nevertheless offended me by assuming something about me that isn’t true. My desire for communion has nothing to do with “what I can take from Christ without giving back in return”. How DARE you say something like that??

I can’t even express how I feel right now, aside from completely put-off. You make me feel as though I’m being self-centered in my desire to partake of communion. You know nothing about me, and if you DID know anything about me, you’d realize just how much of a sacrifice of my life I’m willing…no, WAS willing…to make to be Catholic. I wanted to help and give to others, even to the extent of seeking out a life as a monk - or indeed, even as a priest at one time, but I can’t now because of my homosexual orientation which has barred me from that possibility.

I’m sorry, I can’t finish typing this. I don’t know what else to say. I will strive to seek the Lord and a relationship with Him outside the church.

 

[PJM]

=joandarc2008;6766615]Thank you, Pat, I can completely see how my comments can be mistaken coming from a Protestant Church. I have been studying the Franciscan ways and much of the Church does center around community - so let me clarify.

While we do have reverence and silent prayer for the glorified Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Eucharist during the Transubstantiation - we enter Communion with our Community and all of the Saints and Christ and Mary and the Lord. So one of the things I believe IMHO we pick up in RCIA - or START- to pick up in RCIA is the overwhelming sense of what it feels like to be a part of that large community without all that singing and dancing in the aisles. It is a reverent community. It is about finding a place in it and finding what we can do for it and not what it can do for us. Just as Christ washed the feet of the Disciples that would later deny Him…

Beautifully stated…THANKS

 

[JRKH]

For as much as you said you didn’t mean to be blunt, you nevertheless offended me by assuming something about me that isn’t true. My desire for communion has nothing to do with “what I can take from Christ without giving back in return”. How DARE you say something like that??

I can’t even express how I feel right now, aside from completely put-off. You make me feel as though I’m being self-centered in my desire to partake of communion. You know nothing about me, and if you DID know anything about me, you’d realize just how much of a sacrifice of my life I’m willing…no, WAS willing…to make to be Catholic. I wanted to help and give to others, even to the extent of seeking out a life as a monk - or indeed, even as a priest at one time, but I can’t now because of my homosexual orientation which has barred me from that possibility.

I’m sorry, I can’t finish typing this. I don’t know what else to say. I will strive to seek the Lord and a relationship with Him outside the church.

I’m curious - Why would one persons comments, - out of all that has been posted here trying to support you, - be sufficient to cause you to stop seeking to come into The Church?

Peace
James

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by onthenarrowpath
For as much as you said you didn’t mean to be blunt, you nevertheless offended me by assuming something about me that isn’t true. My desire for communion has nothing to do with “what I can take from Christ without giving back in return”. How DARE you say something like that??

I can’t even express how I feel right now, aside from completely put-off. You make me feel as though I’m being self-centered in my desire to partake of communion. You know nothing about me, and if you DID know anything about me, you’d realize just how much of a sacrifice of my life I’m willing…no, WAS willing…to make to be Catholic. I wanted to help and give to others, even to the extent of seeking out a life as a monk - or indeed, even as a priest at one time, but I can’t now because of my homosexual orientation which has barred me from that possibility.

I’m sorry, I can’t finish typing this. I don’t know what else to say. I will strive to seek the Lord and a relationship with Him outside the church.

Are you unwilling to suffer for Christ?

There is no greater Grace,no greater Gift than Ctholic holy Communion. The idea that you would pass this up basedon one person’s position is mind numbing!

**Matt. 5:11-12 **“Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me

**Phil.2: 8 **“And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross **Luke.9 :23 **And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. **Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 **Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

John 6: [50-56] This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh." So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
***he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. ****** For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." ***

Friend, please carefully and PRAYERFULLY reconsider your position! Christ was persecuated; why should we not expect to be; even if from another “Christian?”

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[onthenarrowpath]

Man, joandarc2008, do you even KNOW how you have made me feel right now? You know, maybe if you’re so concerned about people taking things from the church instead of giving in return, then perhaps you should tell that to the Catholic hospital I had to use a couple of years ago when I had no money and no health insurance - and even after telling them I couldn’t pay for the ER visit, they STILL made me pay $200 before I left the hospital. I didn’t have it! My mom had to put it on her credit card, and then I got a bill from the hospital later! Now granted, the hospital eventually wrote off the debt and sent the money back - but not after making me feel scared and unsure of what to do when I was waiting to be released. Does your church ENJOY making people sweat like that? What kind of charity is that? The thing is, the ER doctor did NOT write off my debt and sent me to a collection agency instead.

Who’s being self-centered now, huh? Who wasn’t willing to give something?

Something else, why don’t you talk to the archbishop that leads the parishes where I live. When he came to town, our old archbishop lived in a humble apartment adjoining a church downtown. When our current one came in, the church bought him a luxury home that cosst almost $500,000! This is a part of the country where he could have easily gotten a house at less than half that price and it still would have been a nice home for him.

Again, tell me how much it seems like I want to take from the church?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Really - I hope my question is received in the spirit in which I’m asking. The process for becoming Catholic seems to take so long. Why is that? Is RCIA necessary for all people?

Strange as this may sound, I’m really wanting to convert but I keep putting it off because it seems I don’t have the patience to go through the involved process of RCIA before I can actually be confirmed and partake in communion. I believe in and accept Jesus Christ, I believe in transubstantiation (the Real Presence), I understand the Immaculate Conception (would maybe need some questions answered about that), I understand and accept the Papacy, purgatory isn’t an issue that trips me up, I maybe have a few questions about why certain things are done…but they are things that, in my mind, could be cleared up quickly.

I’ve been studying Catholicism for a number of years now, and I wonder: Do I have to wait until next Easter or some particular time of year before I can be confirmed as Catholic? It seems in the early days of the church right after Pentecost, they were baptizing and adding people to the church quickly. Why does it take so long now?

I was baptized Catholic, received first communion,but never confirmed. I have decided to go through the entire process of RCIA instead of taking a short cut. Why…because I believe that I can learn so much more about my faith on the journey. My husband has a cousin who was fully Catholic…but was a sponsor for his wife through RCIA–he said he learned so much in the process–even more then at his Catholic high school.

My husband is in the same boat as you. He believes all those things…but was only baptized Catholic. Yes–he would like to receive communion, however he humbly participates in the rest of communion, fully appreciating the meaning of it all. Patience is not normally his strong suit, but he is using it as a time for drawing even closer to Christ. And I believe there will be a special blessing for him when he does recieve communion next Easter.

I pray that you will use the time wisely to really discern your calling. And remember–there are plenty of us in the “boat” with you.

 

[PJM]

=onthenarrowpath;6767540]Man, joandarc2008, do you even KNOW how you have made me feel right now? You know, maybe if you’re so concerned about people taking things from the church instead of giving in return, then perhaps you should tell that to the Catholic hospital I had to use a couple of years ago when I had no money and no health insurance - and even after telling them I couldn’t pay for the ER visit, they STILL made me pay $200 before I left the hospital. I didn’t have it! My mom had to put it on her credit card, and then I got a bill from the hospital later! Now granted, the hospital eventually wrote off the debt and sent the money back - but not after making me feel scared and unsure of what to do when I was waiting to be released. Does your church ENJOY making people sweat like that? What kind of charity is that? The thing is, the ER doctor did NOT write off my debt and sent me to a collection agency instead.

Who’s being self-centered now, huh? Who wasn’t willing to give something?

Something else, why don’t you talk to the archbishop that leads the parishes where I live. When he came to town, our old archbishop lived in a humble apartment adjoining a church downtown. When our current one came in, the church bought him a luxury home that cosst almost $500,000! This is a part of the country where he could have easily gotten a house at less than half that price and it still would have been a nice home for him.

Again, tell me how much it seems like I want to take from the church?

While I am truly sory for your experience, you are mixing BUSINESS and Worshop issues.

Like oil and water they don’t mix well.

Hospitals are a BUSINESS; to stay in business they must logically apply business standards and practices. In the end Jutice prevailed. You ought not to expect things free just because they are in some way connected [but not owed by] the CC.

You should expect to be treated respectfully.

Love and prayers,

Pat

 

[joandarc2008]

Man, joandarc2008, do you even KNOW how you have made me feel right now? You know, maybe if you’re so concerned about people taking things from the church instead of giving in return, then perhaps you should tell that to the Catholic hospital I had to use a couple of years ago when I had no money and no health insurance - and even after telling them I couldn’t pay for the ER visit, they STILL made me pay $200 before I left the hospital. I didn’t have it! My mom had to put it on her credit card, and then I got a bill from the hospital later! Now granted, the hospital eventually wrote off the debt and sent the money back - but not after making me feel scared and unsure of what to do when I was waiting to be released. Does your church ENJOY making people sweat like that? What kind of charity is that? The thing is, the ER doctor did NOT write off my debt and sent me to a collection agency instead.

Who’s being self-centered now, huh? Who wasn’t willing to give something?

Something else, why don’t you talk to the archbishop that leads the parishes where I live. When he came to town, our old archbishop lived in a humble apartment adjoining a church downtown. When our current one came in, the church bought him a luxury home that cosst almost $500,000! This is a part of the country where he could have easily gotten a house at less than half that price and it still would have been a nice home for him.

Again, tell me how much it seems like I want to take from the church?

I am only going by the fact that you are not willing to go through RCIA and now by one post that points out that you do have something to learn you are becoming angry and talking about not coming that can give Eucharist.

Well, almost only place - the Orthodox Church is in Communion with us but not in full communion. The Eastern Rite also does RCIA.

As far as the homosexuality issue you are going to find that any place that truly teaches Christ.

As far as being blunt, harsh, whatever, when I was learning I had many things said to me tat were blunt - I grew through them and because of them I am where I am now. Not one of us is perfect and if we can’t accept that we can be wrong then we will never grow. Conversion is a process not an overnight epiphany.

As far as $200 - well, that is business - it could have been much worse - my dh was terminal at one point and was asked for 1000’s on his way out of the hospital when he left Secualar hospitals with no job and no insurance. How would you like them to stay in business otherwise. If your mother had a credit card to pay it then it is best that something was paid. It is called sacrifice.

I will stay quite for a while so I don’t further anger you but I offer you up in prayer.

 

[onthenarrowpath]

One final note…and then this WILL be my final post here at Catholic.com. (For as many times as I may have said that before, this time I mean it.)

With respect to giving and sharing…

I believe PJM stated that once someone commits to the Catholic Church, it means sharing the faith…?? Well, I just want all the Catholics to know I have never, ever EVER once been approached by a Catholic who wanted to tell me about Jesus.

I learned the truth about why Jesus died on the cross from a non-denominational Protestant. So talk about sharing and giving - no Catholic ever shared the most important thing in life with me…the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[joandarc2008]

One final note…and then this WILL be my final post here at Catholic.com. (For as many times as I may have said that before, this time I mean it.)

With respect to giving and sharing…

I believe PJM stated that once someone commits to the Catholic Church, it means sharing the faith…?? Well, I just want all the Catholics to know I have never, ever EVER once been approached by a Catholic who wanted to tell me about Jesus.

I learned the truth about why Jesus died on the cross from a non-denominational Protestant. So talk about sharing and giving - no Catholic ever shared the most important thing in life with me…the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I think you missed PJM talking about the Body and Blood - that is all about Jesus dying on the Cross for us - without that it is not possible. That is what the Eucharist is - it is the Bpdy from the Last Supper prior to the Passion and the Crucifixion and The Resurrection.

 

[SonCatcher]

narrow,

I am sorry you are throwing in the towel so soon. It sounds like you are struggling with God. You can’t win without losing. Look at Jacob. He got a limp for it.

I’m praying for you.

 

[onthenarrowpath]

**I’m going to apologize for my outburst…not because I have changed my mind, but because it is the right thing to do. I was out of line for blowing my stack, and I’m sorry. I should have been more charitable in my reaction.

Having said that, I have decided not to become Catholic. It really has nothing to do with anything any particular person has said in this thread. I simply cannot bring myself to a place where I’m comfortable with all Catholic teachings.

Thank you all for the time you took in responding to my question. May God have mercy on my soul.**

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Having said that, I have decided not to become Catholic. It really has nothing to do with anything any particular person has said in this thread. I simply cannot bring myself to a place where I’m comfortable with all Catholic teachings.

For what it’s worth, you don’t have to accept all Catholic teachings BEFORE you start RCIA. In part, RCIA gives you a place to ask questions and consider the answers. Something that may seem difficult or impossible to accept at the beginning may start to make more sense as you learn more about it.

Starting RCIA is also not a commitment to becoming Catholic at this time. It’s a commitment to learning more and praying about whether this is where you’re called.

Best wishes to you.

 

[fdesales]

For what it’s worth, you don’t have to accept all Catholic teachings BEFORE you start RCIA. In part, RCIA gives you a place to ask questions and consider the answers. Something that may seem difficult or impossible to accept at the beginning may start to make more sense as you learn more about it.

Starting RCIA is also not a commitment to becoming Catholic at this time. It’s a commitment to learning more and praying about whether this is where you’re called.

Best wishes to you.

True, faith leads to understanding…

Regards

 

[joandarc2008]

**I’m going to apologize for my outburst…not because I have changed my mind, but because it is the right thing to do. I was out of line for blowing my stack, and I’m sorry. I should have been more charitable in my reaction.

Having said that, I have decided not to become Catholic. It really has nothing to do with anything any particular person has said in this thread. I simply cannot bring myself to a place where I’m comfortable with all Catholic teachings.

Thank you all for the time you took in responding to my question. May God have mercy on my soul.**

Wow that was a rather quick turn around and exactly why we do not allow the Sacraments without preparation. I most humbly thank you for proving Church’s stance to be correct on this matter.

 

[Deconi]

**I’m going to apologize for my outburst…not because I have changed my mind, but because it is the right thing to do. I was out of line for blowing my stack, and I’m sorry. I should have been more charitable in my reaction.

Having said that, I have decided not to become Catholic. It really has nothing to do with anything any particular person has said in this thread. I simply cannot bring myself to a place where I’m comfortable with all Catholic teachings.

Thank you all for the time you took in responding to my question. May God have mercy on my soul.**

Ha ha…My friend, now you know one of the reasons RCIA takes time! This Church is not ours! It isn’t a club or an organisation that you can shortcut the membership application!

It is a choice for LIFE! It is important that you KNOW what it is that you are choosing. Knowing and understanding some of the theological aspects is INSUFFICIENT to steel against what is to come. Just as Our Lord suffered the lashes on His Divine Person, so too does His Mystical Body, The Catholic Church, CONTINUE to suffer blows throughout the ages both from without and within.

I’m not saying you can’t, but if you cannot endure the RCIA process (time), how can you hope to endure the (spiritual) blows ahead of ‘discernment/doubt/temptations to abandon’ and remain Catholic?? Look at the current scandals and then wonder why Catholics aren’t reported leaving in droves!? Because we ‘see’ it for what it is but we ACCEPT IN OBEDIENCE what Our Lord promised of His Church.

A cradle Catholic lives through the Sacraments of Baptism, Confession, Holy Communion, Confirmation. That takes years. RCIA is trying to cramp all that into months!!

As you know, both means of entering The Church does not guarantee a good Catholic, or even a faithful one; many, many ‘cradles’ have proven they cannot endure the slings and arrows of life and have fallen in ‘the battle.’ RCIA can only make you aware of the basic footholds of Catholicism so you can appreciate your freedom of will to choose. It is when you ‘enter’ that you begin to comprehend the landscape of a Catholic life that spans time itself…from The Alpha to The Omega.

RCIA is a process to allow for your freedom to choose. Be Catholic or non-Catholic…just don’t let ‘time’ be your deciding factor.

A length of time, is a blink, when your heart belongs to The Owner of eternity!

 

[onthenarrowpath]

Wow that was a rather quick turn around and exactly why we do not allow the Sacraments without preparation. I most humbly thank you for proving Church’s stance to be correct on this matter.

I don’t think I proved anything, quite honestly, as I do not believe the Catholic Church’s stance is correct. That is one of the reasons why I have decided not to become Catholic. I do not believe the apostles and the early church made new converts wait until a specific time of the year before accepting them as believers. Once the person believed and was baptized, they were Christians. As an example, I will refer to Acts 2:38-47, which speaks of how the people heard and accepted the gospel, were baptized the same day, and tells of how the church was adding people daily. I’ll even refer to Acts 8:26-39, which talks about how Philip was led by the Holy Spirit to meet up with the Ethiopian eunuch along the road to Gaza, whereby Philip preached Jesus to him. When the eunuch believed, he asked to be baptized and Philip baptized him right then and there. He didn’t tell him "Oh, but you must wait until the anniversary of the resurrection of Jesus before we will do that."

Truth be told, I now believe the Catholic Church makes it harder to be a Christian than what is necessary. I believe the Lord Jesus accepts me without all the “hoops” the RCC makes people jump through.