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tonyrey
Guest
They are hardly capable of making rational choices… :whacky:
Why doesn't God just not create the bad people to keep them from going to hell
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tonyrey
Guest
I love your typo “hellhound” which is so appropriate.
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Amandil
Guest
Yet it is an objective fact. The only reason why it gives “the wrong impression” is because modern man is completely unfamiliar with natural law as opposed to positive law.
The guilt is objective stemming from being born of the line of Adam and disconnected from God.
That is what Christ came for, so that we may be spiritually reborn of His line and thus be reconnected with God through Him.
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Amandil
Guest
So many people now use their phones to post it’s almost impossible to catch everything autocorrect messes up.I love your typo “hellhound” which is so appropriate.
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JapaneseKappa
Guest
So lets suppose I will end up in hell. You are saying that at this moment, God has not yet created my soul in hell? But once I die, he will have created my soul in hell? So God will undergo a change, from “God who has not created my soul in hell” to “God who has created my soul in hell.” But that can’t be true, since God can’t change. If God can’t change, then he must always be one or the other, either “God who creates my soul in hell” or “God who does not create my soul in hell.”
Also, there is the fundamental issue that if God sees the universe as an eternal now, and he sees the universe in its entirety from beginning to end, then that is how the universe actually is. God has the correct view of things by definition. We have a limited and incorrect view of things. We perceive change, God does not; God must be correct.
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JapaneseKappa
Guest
Which particular limitation do you mean? Do you think God can see things that do not exist?You are imposing human limitations on the Creator of the entire universe…
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Bradski
Guest
But I have to keep going back to this. The events associated with an ‘existing’ person throughout his life will be affected by people ‘not yet in existence’. Now God either knows what these events are and so must know things about people ‘not yet in existence’, which contradicts what you are saying, or…God doesn’t know what these events are so doesn’t know everything about ‘existing’ persons’.
You are holding a position which contradicts itself.
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davidv
Guest
So what? Prove that knowledge = cause.
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tonyrey
Guest
I believe the Creator of the entire universe has sufficient insight, power and wisdom to have that capacity…
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fred_conty
Guest
Let’s see…the deist god started something from which everything else is the result. But…he didn’t know what he was doing when he started everything so that lets him off the hook. Just like the guy who happened to plant an acorn which grew into a giant tree in his backyard. Then when the tree crashed on the neighbor’s house, he pleads that he didn’t know what he was doing when he planted that acorn. And ignorance will let him off scott free by the neighbor. That’ll do it every time.
And here is something else…
May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
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oldcelt
Guest
You left out an important step…Foreknowledge + Creation = Cause If you know how something is going to act and still create that person or thing, yuou are culpable for that act.
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oldcelt
Guest
The Deist God merely initiated creation. Some call that uncaring, aloof, etc. Personally, I’m quite happy that He leaves us alone. Better than the horrors described in particularly the OT.
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Aloysium
Guest
Why would you choose to end up in hell?
All you have to do, is care that you messed up in some way, as we all do, and feel sorry. Is that such a huge problem? He died on the cross so that we can live in paradise in spite of all the bad stuff we do.
We exist in time, and God sees all time.
He does not create your soul in hell.
The universe is in time.
Events, changes, interactions, relationships are always happening.
They don’t all happen at once. I too considered this possibility at some point - the universe being like a globe with the north pole representing the big bang and the south pole the big crunch, the latitudes representing the expansion of time-space. I ended up discounting this as merely an analogy, which breaks down if taken as more than just a rough hypothesis about just space-time.
All is united in God, transcending time and space, who in His oneness creates and sees it all.
God sees the change that is happening. His mind does not obliterate this moment in which we are existing, when He knows all; this would be part of His knowledge
I think you are trying to bring Him down to our level.
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fred_conty
Guest
But if the deist god is true, then just by the fact he started it all he is the cause of all the OT horrors as you called them.
May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
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oldcelt
Guest
Two reasons that misses…he didn’t create us, we evolved…and most of the OT likely never happened or happened in a very different manner.
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Amandil
Guest
It’s interesting to see that you posit something again apparently as “fact”-that “we evolved”-without observing it.
“Most”? That’s a very “bold” assertion. Especially in the face of the mountain of evidence which continues to affirm rather than discredit the Biblical accounts.
Even if you can discount the veracity of the Exodus(which I sincerely doubt), you cannot discount the historical or the archeological evidence from Joshua all the way through to the Maccabean revolt and the Hasmonean dynasty to the rise of Rome and the Herodians.
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oldcelt
Guest
If you’ll note, I was being directly asked about my Deist beliefs. I relayed my version. The OT is huge, and very little has been proven…Joshua? Yeah, there are collapsed walls at Jericho, but they are charred. We know the Exodus didn’t happen the way it is told because thousands of people leave a trail and none has ever been found near the traditional sites. Zero evidence of a world-wide flood and so on.
We don’t need any of the bible for the Romans, there are plenty of other sources.
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Amandil
Guest
So, no Davidic dynasty? No Solomon nor His temple. No rebellion and division of Israel and Judah? No Assyrian invasion if Israel? No diaspora? No invasion of Judah by the Babylonians and the end of the Davidic kings by Nebuchadnezzar? No exile in Babylon?
King Cyrus of Persia apparently is a lie as well, huh?
The Hellenizing of Judea under Antiochus Epiphanies? The Maccabean revolt?
All of these events are accepted by historians, most people with common sense, and even the History Channel.
Yet you claim that “very little has been proven”?
At what point does one raise the bar on “proof” to such an absurd degree that it becomes irrational skepticism?
There was an entire conquest that is known to historians. From Jericho to Ai and continuing on through.
Yes, I know that its easy to insist that something is not there when you don’t want to see it.
Yet its there. And it explains the who, the how, and why the Romans got involved in Palestine.
I can’t help but see nothing but an argument from personal incredulity rather than any sort of evidence that the Biblical record is false.
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Bradski
Guest
What? Some three and half thousand year old mud brick walls were discovered to have fallen down? Why wasn’t I told…
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oldcelt
Guest
These are well known through other sources and do not require the intervention of God. For your last statement I listed some of the major tenets of the Jewish/Christian faiths for which there is not one shred of evidence.
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