Why doesn't my parish have kneelers?

[JMMK]

Because the wolves are in charge of the Church today…

Don’t forget the wolf hounds that are slowly hunting the wolves, they are out there too.

 

[whatevergirl]

Here is the answer to the question of the O.P. This answer will provide the answer to many questions that confused Catholics have today:

Question: Why are some Churches removing the kneelers?

Answer: Because the wolves are in charge of the Church today, and they are doing everything they can get away with to destroy the faith and lead souls into a new religion devoid of anything transcendent or supernatural. They are attempting to constuct a Church of Man to replace the Church of God. These are the wolves in sheeps clothing that we have been warned about. The prelates who are not wolves may as well be since they remain silent, and do nothing to pretect the faith or the faithful. These later are the “dumb dogs” that will not bark. So, we have a hierarchy that consists of wolves in sheeps clothing and dumb dags. Now we know why the Church is in the condition it is.

There’s the answer for those who are willing to hear it.

That’s your opinion.

 

[whatevergirl]

Here is the answer to the question of the O.P. This answer will provide the answer to many questions that confused Catholics have today:

Question: Why are some Churches removing the kneelers?

Answer: Because the wolves are in charge of the Church today, and they are doing everything they can get away with to destroy the faith and lead souls into a new religion devoid of anything transcendent or supernatural. They are attempting to constuct a Church of Man to replace the Church of God. These are the wolves in sheeps clothing that we have been warned about. The prelates who are not wolves may as well be since they remain silent, and do nothing to pretect the faith or the faithful. These later are the “dumb dogs” that will not bark. So, we have a hierarchy that consists of wolves in sheeps clothing and dumb dags. Now we know why the Church is in the condition it is.

There’s the answer for those who are willing to hear it.

And to insinuate that I am a ‘dumb dog’ is not only insulting, but not charitable. You are not in a place to judge me nor the Bishop who runs the Diocese I am a part of…so be careful to interject hateful words to display your opinion. Insulting and name calling are not tenets of our faith…THAT is a fact…and not just my opinion.

 

[Markstorm]

And to insinuate that I am a ‘dumb dog’ is not only insulting, but not charitable. You are not in a place to judge me nor the Bishop who runs the Diocese I am a part of…so be careful to interject hateful words to display your opinion. Insulting and name calling are not tenets of our faith…

He said that the prelates who will not protect the faithful are dumb dogs. Are you a prelate?

That’s your opinion.

This is a forum where people, believe it or not, post opinions.

 

[whatevergirl]

He said that the prelates who will not protect the faithful are dumb dogs. Are you a prelate?

This is a forum where people, believe it or not, post opinions.

right, and I’m stating such…he insinuates that ‘that’s the answer everyone has been searching for,’ as if his opinion is fact.

 

[whatevergirl]

He said that the prelates who will not protect the faithful are dumb dogs. Are you a prelate?

I read that too quickly…no I didn’t see that…I apologize for jumping to the wrong conclusion. …BUT MY BISHOP IS NOT A DUMB DOG, EITHER. I still don’t think we should be namecalling to drive home a point…

Who is in charge of the Church then? Who is he speaking of? Pope Benedict? The Cardinals? If the prelate in question here is the Bishop, then who is running the Church?

 

[Markstorm]

Who is in charge of the Church then? Who is he speaking of? Pope Benedict? The Cardinals? If the prelate in question here is the Bishop, then who is running the Church?

Well, our Holy Father Pope Benedict is a prime example of a Church leader who is neither a “wolf” nor a “dumb dog”.

My guess is that by “wolf” he refers to any leader who presumes to alter liturgical practice, and “dumb dog” anyone who allows it to happen. Eh, we’ll have to wait for clarification, but I was just posting to ensure that your day is not ruined by an imaginary insult.

 

[whatevergirl]

Well, our Holy Father Pope Benedict is a prime example of a Church leader who is neither a “wolf” nor a “dumb dog”.

My guess is that by “wolf” he refers to any leader who presumes to alter liturgical practice, and “dumb dog” anyone who allows it to happen. Eh, we’ll have to wait for clarification, but I was just posting to ensure that your day is not ruined by an imaginary insult.

Thanks Mark…I don’t let opinions of others ruin my days… I do need to slow down when I’m reading though…or I will look like a dumb…no, I won’t say it.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

And to insinuate that I am a ‘dumb dog’ is not only insulting, but not charitable.

The term “dumb dog” refers to Bishops that do not defend the faith. I wasn’t referring to you, unless you are a Bishop who is not defending the faith.

You are not in a place to judge me nor the Bishop who runs the Diocese I am a part of…so be careful to interject hateful words to display your opinion.

I wasn’t judging you; and I have no idea who your Bishop is.

Insulting and name calling are not tenets of our faith…THAT is a fact…and not just my opinion.

The Bible tells us to be ware of wolves in sheeps clothing; and the term “dumb dogs” is a biblical term. It comes from the book of Isaiah. As I said, it refers to Bishops who do not defend the faith.

The Biblical words I used were not directed towards anyone in particular (especially not you).

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Well, our Holy Father Pope Benedict is a prime example of a Church leader who is neither a “wolf” nor a “dumb dog”.

I think the Pope is doing what he can to restore the Church. I think he is acting prudently and slowly in order to turn things around.

My guess is that by “wolf” he refers to any leader who presumes to alter liturgical practice, and “dumb dog” anyone who allows it to happen. Eh, we’ll have to wait for clarification, but I was just posting to ensure that your day is not ruined by an imaginary insult.

I’ll give you another example (which is the one I was thinking of when I wrote about the “dumb dogs”).

The US Bishops issued a Catechism that teaches explicit heresy. It is the same heresy that was taught in the document issued via the USCCB back in 2002… the one that said it was no longer theologically appropriate to attempt to convert the Jews. The heresy is that the old Covenant is still valid.

Here’s the question: Is each and every US Bishop a heretic who believes that particular heresy? Or are they dumb dogs who refuse to speak up? Or have some spoken out that I am not aware of? Truly, I hope some have spoken out against this error in order to protect the faithful.

 

[whatevergirl]

Pax;

Having kneelers is not heresy.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Pax;

Having kneelers is not heresy.

Did you mean NOT having kneelers is not heresy? I agree. But the point is, all of these strange things that are taking place are designed to destroy the faith, little by little… and they are working very well.

 

[whatevergirl]

Did you mean NOT having kneelers is not heresy? I agree. But the point is, all of these strange things that are taking place are designed to destroy the faith, little by little… and they are working very well.

ha yes… that is what I meant

In responsse to your thoughts on kneelers…I would agree that I miss them. Why would I miss a piece of furniture? Because it’s more than a piece of furniture, really…to us devout Catholics, it is a display of reverence…and by displaying that ‘piece of furniture’ our parishes are all conformed to that same display of reverence. So, I agree with the overall sentiment…but attending a parish that does not having kneelers, does not make me less of a Catholic. That is all I am trying to convey. God bless!

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

ha yes… that is what I meant

In responsse to your thoughts on kneelers…I would agree that I miss them. Why would I miss a piece of furniture? Because it’s more than a piece of furniture, really…to us devout Catholics, it is a display of reverence…and by displaying that ‘piece of furniture’ our parishes are all conformed to that same display of reverence. So, I agree with the overall sentiment…but attending a parish that does not having kneelers, does not make me less of a Catholic. That is all I am trying to convey. God bless!

I hope you don’t think I was implying that you are less of a Catholic just because your Church doesn’t have kneelers. That’s not what I meant at all.

We’re all in the same boat together (pun intended). We are all trying to keep the faith “whole and inviolate” during this crisis.

I have to admit, I get a little angry at what is taking place in the Church, and at those who are doing it. I realize that God is allowing this crisis for a reason (and the reason is probably as a just punishment for our sins), but I still get angry at the wolves.

 

[whatevergirl]

I hope you don’t think I was implying that you are less of a Catholic just because your Church doesn’t have kneelers. That’s not what I meant at all.

We’re all in the same boat together (pun intended). We are all trying to keep the faith “whole and inviolate” during this crisis.

I have to admit, I get a little angry at what is taking place in the Church, and at those who are doing it. I realize that God is allowing this crisis for a reason (and the reason is probably as a just punishment for our sins), but I still get angry at the wolves.

Yes, and we are not only in the same boat…we are rowing in the same direction. I assure you, I agree with your sentiments, and perhaps I thought you were implying I was less of a Catholic to tolerate a parish with no kneelers, thank you for clearing that up. Ugh, sometimes it is hard to get the meaning behind words on a message board or in email!

But, I am a bit saddened that kneelers have been removed in many parishes…I believe the reply given on the parish’s website, but it does seem like the posture has been removed too. Sure you can kneel on the hard floor, and we have…but the posture should be conformed by everyone…

 

[belgianwaffles9]

But, I am a bit saddened that kneelers have been removed in many parishes…I believe the reply given on the parish’s website, but it does seem like the posture has been removed too. Sure you can kneel on the hard floor, and we have…but the posture should be conformed by everyone…

Okay, reading through this, it looks like a lot of people are confused, and seem to think that by saying “our church doesnt have kneelers” you mean “i don’t kneel.”

As you have said, you do kneel. As you, and every Roman rite Catholic should.

You are right, it is NOT heresy to not have kneelers. but it IS heresy not to kneel. The kneelers aren’t nescessary; after all, Jesus’ cross didn’t have pads and pillows. But kneeling is absolutely nescessary.

BUT MY BISHOP IS NOT A DUMB DOG, EITHER. I still don’t think we should be namecalling to drive home a point…

Just for calirification, i think you and a few others may be confused by the “dumb dogs” thing.

Dumb does not mean ‘stupid’ in this sense, it means ‘silent.’

Thats what the word originally meant, as in when John the Baptist’s father was ‘struck dumb.’ (Or when anyone hears something so amazing they are ‘dumbstruck’ and cannot find the right words to say).

 

[whatevergirl]

Okay, reading through this, it looks like a lot of people are confused, and seem to think that by saying “our church doesnt have kneelers” you mean “i don’t kneel.”

As you have said, you do kneel. As you, and every Roman rite Catholic should.

You are right, it is NOT heresy to not have kneelers. but it IS heresy not to kneel. The kneelers aren’t nescessary; after all, Jesus’ cross didn’t have pads and pillows. But kneeling is absolutely nescessary.

Just for calirification, i think you and a few others may be confused by the “dumb dogs” thing.

Dumb does not mean ‘stupid’ in this sense, it means ‘silent.’

Thats what the word originally meant, as in when John the Baptist’s father was ‘struck dumb.’ (Or when anyone hears something so amazing they are ‘dumbstruck’ and cannot find the right words to say).

where have you been all my life, belgian? Seriously…thank you for clarifying this!

I don’t know if not kneeling is considered heresy. I will have to investigate that…why would a Diocese encourage and uphold heresy?

 

[stmaria]

I don’t know if not kneeling is considered heresy. I will have to investigate that…why would a Diocese encourage and uphold heresy?

The purpose of not having kneelers is to prevent one from kneeling. I don’t know if that is heresy but it will lead the faithful away from believing in the Real Presence.
Something is going on and has been slowly going on for years. I agree with Pax about wolves in sheep’s clothing. This has been predicted.
I alway attend the TLM except on Holy days of obligation. On those days I go to various Churches throughout the city searching for a reverent Church that has the Ordinary Form.
I have found that at several Churches that the people have been told NOT to geneflect when entering their pew. A few bow their head but most just come in at sit down. They don’t even kneel to pray.
At several of the Masses there is no ringing of the bells at the Consecration. The priest does not elevate the Host or the Chalice. The Eucharist is distributed in large bowls instead of a chalice.
Just like no kneelers this is not heresy this it will lead the faithful away from the belief that something sacred and extraordinary has just occurred.
Poster TNT has a good by-line. “To destroy a Church you must first destroy it Tradtions”.
I don’t think the local priest is intentionly doing this. I believe it comes from his training days at the seminary. In the book* Good-Bye Good Men* the author reveals how St Thomas Aquinas and pre-Vaticaan II Popes are not read. Instead they read books by heretics like Curran and Kung.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

But, I am a bit saddened that kneelers have been removed in many parishes…I believe the reply given on the parish’s website, but it does seem like the posture has been removed too. Sure you can kneel on the hard floor, and we have…but the posture should be conformed by everyone…

See, from where I sit, and especially because it is not the only church in the area that does not have kneelers, I don’t believe the explanation on the website. As a true one-off exceptional situation, the excuse given is only marginally sufficient. That this situation is in no means rare, especially that the bishop approved a plan for a new permanent sanctuary that left them out from the get-go, and has a history of doing so, well, that tells a different story, and yes, you are being fed a line and your prelate is hoping your sense of obedience will keep you and others from raising too much of a fuss while he undermines the traditions of the faith in his own diocese.

 

[whatevergirl]

The purpose of not having kneelers is to prevent one from kneeling. I don’t know if that is heresy but it will lead the faithful away from believing in the Real Presence.
Something is going on and has been slowly going on for years. I agree with Pax about wolves in sheep’s clothing. This has been predicted.
I alway attend the TLM except on Holy days of obligation. On those days I go to various Churches throughout the city searching for a reverent Church that has the Ordinary Form.
I have found that at several Churches that the people have been told NOT to geneflect when entering their pew. A few bow their head but most just come in at sit down. They don’t even kneel to pray.
At several of the Masses there is no ringing of the bells at the Consecration. The priest does not elevate the Host or the Chalice. The Eucharist is distributed in large bowls instead of a chalice.
Just like no kneelers this is not heresy this it will lead the faithful away from the belief that something sacred and extraordinary has just occurred.
Poster TNT has a good by-line. “To destroy a Church you must first destroy it Tradtions”.
I don’t think the local priest is intentionly doing this. I believe it comes from his training days at the seminary. In the book* Good-Bye Good Men* the author reveals how St Thomas Aquinas and pre-Vaticaan II Popes are not read. Instead they read books by heretics like Curran and Kung.

Oh my come to think of it…the first parish we attended here in Florida–there were big bowls…and no genuflecting. People looked at us like we were nuts, and these were elderly people looking at us this way–don’t they at least remember a time when EVERYONE genuflected? They also had no kneelers…and another church we went to didn’t have kneelers. So, by the time we came to this parish, we thought we wouldn’t be able to find a parish with kneelers.

What is interesting, is that they have a beautiful Mary statue, where we can light candles…WITH KNEELERS! HA Go figure. And then another area at the other end by the crucifix, where there are kneelers. But, this new parish is very traditional (albeit some long winded songs that are not traditional) other than the kneelers. I wonder if there is anything I can do to change that.