Why doesn't RCIA teach about Eastern Catholicism?

[puzzleannie]

Truth of the matter is, for converts, by the time they step inside an Eastern Rite parish they would have already researched a lot about it and have learned quite a lot. Not many non-Ukrainians would just waltz into a Ukrainian parish, or not many would walk into a Ruthenian or Melkite parish without knowing what it is (most people don’t know what Ruthenians and Melkites are).

when we inquired a few years ago in some Cleveland area Eastern Rite churches we were strongly discouraged from changing rites since in neither family was there any ethnic connection to any other rite, nor would there have been any family support, or neighborhood support where we lived, for the more stringent customs and rules of those rites. I assume there may be a similar mindset many places. So I would not be serving my candidates if I implied they can freely chose which rite to join, especially where we are located now. My duty is to make sure if someone from such a background were to inquire (has never happened here) I check with the chancery to make sure they are initiated in to the proper rite.

 

[5Loaves]

Sadly, in my experience they are not interested.

And my experience thankfully has been different, as I think my post here indicates.

 

[5Loaves]

My duty is to make sure if someone from such a background were to inquire (has never happened here) I check with the chancery to make sure they are initiated in to the proper rite.

As usual, right on sister!

 

[CDB1718]

I meet a lot of Roman Catholics who think I’m a heretic. Almost all of them say, “If you’re really Catholic, why didn’t I hear about this in any of my years in Catholic school, religious education, or RCIA?”

I don’t want RCIA directors to teach the eastern theology. Because it is part of Roman Catholicism’s history to be in communion with other churches, I want them to spend 5 minutes teaching that we exist and are Catholic. If they’d say that much and then direct anyone interested to ask an Eastern Catholic priest for more info, I’d be a very happy person.

I asked local RCIA people to do that. I was told that it is too confusing and scandalous to discuss the Eastern Catholic churches. I find that attitude offensive. We’re a scandal?

 

[ConstantineTG]

when we inquired a few years ago in some Cleveland area Eastern Rite churches we were strongly discouraged from changing rites since in neither family was there any ethnic connection to any other rite, nor would there have been any family support, or neighborhood support where we lived, for the more stringent customs and rules of those rites. I assume there may be a similar mindset many places. So I would not be serving my candidates if I implied they can freely chose which rite to join, especially where we are located now. My duty is to make sure if someone from such a background were to inquire (has never happened here) I check with the chancery to make sure they are initiated in to the proper rite.

I wasn’t discouraged to transfer but my bishop told me that we should transfer as a family. My wife hasn’t made up her mind yet so that process has stalled. God will move her when the time is right

As for ethnic ties, we do not have a problem with it. I guess it depends from parish to parish. Some parishes are heavily ethnic. Ours does celebrate the Ukrainian culture very well, but is not “in your face” about it, so to speak. I mean, I’ve already helped out in peroggy making and bake sales of babka and paska. For me its wonderful to be part of an ethnic group with a strong religious culture. As a Filipino, we have that too but when we come to North America we get absorbed into the local Roman Catholic traditions and lose our unique Filipino Catholic identity. Some people still get to practice a bit of it, tomorrow I think I’m going for Simbang Gabi (pre-dawn Mass) which is an age old Filipino tradition. Despite 40-50% of all Roman Catholics in this Archdiocese being Filipino, out of over 50 parishes only one parish will do Simbang Gabi.

 

[PJM]

What I do not understand here is if there are differences between the Catholic rites in how truths are taught, why is this not taught to people in RCIA? Even better would be to have a simple test people could take and then they could find which one fits them the best. I understand if you are born into something, you are born into it. However for those of us who are not, who want to convert, it is a mess that seems to make no sense. It is almost like the Latin rite is hiding this information from us. Something about this whole thing seems to smell very badly to me…

Pax

My dear friend in Christ,

The short answer to your question is that in the ENTIRE Bible; first to last word; NOT ONE word by Yahweh or Christ ever; even one time approved of belief in Only One God [Triune] or more than ONLY One set of Faith beliefs [those of the holder of the “key to heaven” to whom Jesus Himself entrust the single truths of His One set of Faith beliefs, ot never - ever more than Only one “church.”

I read a survey the other day that said about 95% of the worlds Catholics are of the Roman Communion. The other 5% are spread between 22 Eastern sects that too are part of our Catholic Church. THAT IS WHY RCIA teaches as it does.

The Roman Church is the ONE Church, One set of Beliefs and Practices FOUNED By Christ Himself. Why would you NOT desire to be part of it:shrug:

**Salvation my friend is NOT about our “wants” it’s about our “NEEDS” The right And full practice of faith MUST be as God desires; not as we would like. That said if you desire to join one of the Eastern sects that is NOT seperated from Rome; you may do so. One would hope you have a reason for such a decision? BUT be careful there are Eastern sects who are SEPERTATED [in Schism] from Rome and in a real sense have breached their relationship with God Himself.

BUT “Mother Church” is thee Roman Catholic Church.

Having taught RCIA for 3 years *, I know there is not even sufficient time to teach all that one really OUGHT to know in the typical RCIA formated program. We are after all some TWO-THOUSANND YEARS YOUNG!

I have MANY years of teaching our Faith experience; and I’m trained, tested and certified to do so. IF you have specific questions you’d like to dicuss; PLEASE send me a private message. I’d be delighted to discuss them with you.

God Bless you, and thanks for asking!
Pat
PJM on the FORUM*

 

[ConstantineTG]

I meet a lot of Roman Catholics who think I’m a heretic. Almost all of them say, “If you’re really Catholic, why didn’t I hear about this in any of my years in Catholic school, religious education, or RCIA?”

When I told my bishop this he replied, “Welcome to the Eastern Catholic Church.”

Sadly, thats how it goes.

 

[dcointin]

My guess would be because 98% of world Catholics are Roman.

 

[Castello]

We have 2 classes on Church History that touch on Eastern Catholicism as well as Orthodoxy. All depends on the Priest leading the program, what he feels is important.

 

[ConstantineTG]

BUT “Mother Church” is thee Roman Catholic Church.

 

[nickybr38]

I meet a lot of Roman Catholics who think I’m a heretic. Almost all of them say, “If you’re really Catholic, why didn’t I hear about this in any of my years in Catholic school, religious education, or RCIA?”

I don’t want RCIA directors to teach the eastern theology. Because it is part of Roman Catholicism’s history to be in communion with other churches, I want them to spend 5 minutes teaching that we exist and are Catholic. If they’d say that much and then direct anyone interested to ask an Eastern Catholic priest for more info, I’d be a very happy person.

I asked local RCIA people to do that. I was told that it is too confusing and scandalous to discuss the Eastern Catholic churches. I find that attitude offensive. We’re a scandal?

In all fairness there are some areas of the world where there ARE no Eastern Catholic churches so it hardly seems worth mentioning? I dunno. Kind of sad they don’t explain a bit more about the other rites.

 

[dcointin]

In all fairness there are some areas of the world where there ARE no Eastern Catholic churches so it hardly seems worth mentioning? I dunno. Kind of sad they don’t explain a bit more about the other rites.

I really think it’s no more sinister than that. I live in St. Louis, which is a heavily Catholic area, and there one very small Ruthenian mission and one Maronite parish, and the rest as far as I know are Roman Catholic.

 

[CDB1718]

In all fairness there are some areas of the world where there ARE no Eastern Catholic churches so it hardly seems worth mentioning? I dunno. Kind of sad they don’t explain a bit more about the other rites.

Roman Catholics expect their RCIA instructors to introduce this topic. They say it repeatedly. “Why didn’t I hear about this in RCIA?” They think it is important enough that it should be mentioned.

If this many Eastern Catholics are having the same experience, there’s a break down in communication somewhere. The students want it. The people who are the subject of the talk want it. They offer to facilitate it and they’re told there’s no time or there’s no interest or they’re scandalous. I think these RCIA instructors are projecting their own opinions onto their students and the students don’t know to ask about what they’re not being told.

 

[5Loaves]

As I mentioned above, the seminarians who are assigned to my Latin parish RCIA for their field study are often the ones most interested in learning more about the ECCs. Perhaps reaching out to the seminaries of the Latin Church is one approach.

For several years there was a canonically EC seminarian in the Dominican Province here. He served as a deacon in my EC parish for about a year and from time to time some of the other Dominican Brothers would come to our DL. We have a Latin entering the Dominicans in the fall, Lord willing, who is active in my EC parish and often attends Orthodox services as well so during his formation there will probably be an greater awareness of us again there. There are currently at least one Orthodox and one EC taking classes at the Dominican School of Philosophy and Theology here. (Unfortunately neither seems to be seeking a vocation to the priesthood. :sad_yes: )

The Professor of Systematic Theology at the Latin Archdiocese seminary here comes to DL at my parish a couple times a year… not often enough for me to remember him I’m afraid. The last time he came he was in civvies sitting in the temple when I was chanting the hours. Our clergy had already begun the Proskomedia so they weren’t talking to him. Some of the usual parishioners who normally might hold the book of the Gospels weren’t there that day so I turned to him and asked if he’d be willing to hold the book of the Gospels. He said sure and asked when to do that etc. Then luckily I asked him to fill out a visitor’s card. When he handed it to me it said “Rev” on it. I said something to the effect of Oops, I didn’t realize you’re a priest. It wouldn’t be fitting the dignity of your priesthood for you to hold the Gospels for the Deacon. He was very gracious. Usually Latin clergy concelebrate when they visit so I’m not likely to have this happen again.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I think the best way to learn about us [Eastern Rite Catholics] is to go to Diving Liturgy and other services such as Vespers [evening prayer].

Not surprisingly, that very same advice once came from none other than +Blessed John Paul II.

Well put!

 

[5Loaves]

M
I read a survey the other day that said about 95% of the worlds Catholics are of the Roman Communion. The other 5% are spread between 22 Eastern sects that too are part of our Catholic Church. THAT IS WHY RCIA teaches as it does.

The Roman Church is the ONE Church, One set of Beliefs and Practices FOUNED By Christ Himself. Why would you NOT desire to be part of it:shrug:

The 22 Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches are not sects. We are Catholic Churches, autonomous, self-governing (in Latin, sui iuris) Catholic Churches. in union with the Latin Church, AKA the Roman Catholic Church, forming together the Catholic Church. We have our own practices, our own liturgical calendars, our own set of canon laws as distinct from those of the Latin Church and celebrate the Divine Liturgy, not the Roman Rite. There is nothing in any of these that is any less Catholic than the Latin Church. Should a question about the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches arise in RCIA in a Latin parish this is the spirit of what should be conveyed.

I’m afraid your post displays a lack of familiarity with the fullness of the Catholic Church. Hopefully, having posted here you will come to learn more about the Catholic Church in her entirety. Perhaps reading Orientale Lumen an Apostolic Letter of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II to the Bishops, Clergy, and Faithful would be a good place to start.

Since , in fact, we believe that the venerable and ancient tradition of the Eastern Churches is an integral part of the heritage of Christ’s Church,** the first need for Catholics is to be familiar with that tradition**, so as to be nourished by it and to encourage the process of unity in the best way possible for each.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

In answer to the OP: When I was facilitating RCIA and catechizing, if Father had not already done so, I always had to determine the appropriate canonical home for the candidates and the catechumen as well …

Thanks for posting this response, and glad to learn that you were inspired to become an Eastern Rite Catholic!

Your response goes directly and correctly to the point.

In summary, as a matter of Canon Law, any Catholic priest of any Rite who will prospectively administer the Sacraments of Initiation (Baptism, Confirmation, First Eucharist) or Marriage is responsible for determining the Rite to which a candidate(s) properly belongs within the Catholic Church as a precondition of eligibility. Permission would have to be granted by the relevant hierarch (bishop) if a candidate were to be received into or married via ritual of a Rite other than the one in which he or she may belong canonically, based on religious heritage. The specific circumstances of a candidate’s family background would have to be understood in order to make this assessment. For example (a rather straightforward one), my father (a Byzantine Rite Catholic) needed to receive permission to marry my mother (a Latin Rite Catholic) in her Latin Rite Church (as a funny aside, their home parishes are right across the street from each other). As I understand, they were properly married in my mother’s Rite under Canon Law at the time, and dispensation was readily given to my father with his pledge that his children would be raised Byzantine Catholic, as such children canonically would belong to the Byzantine Rite based on the Rite of the father. The Latin Rite celebrant would not have been able to perform the Ritual of Marriage without having first received the consent of the Bishop of my father’s Eparchy (Diocese) as part of the dispensation process.

I would assume that before RCIA instruction would be given in the Latin Rite, the requirements of Canon Law for eligibility of the candidates would first be established. If it were determined that the candidate were subject to the jurisdiction of an Eastern Rite hierarch, that would certainly require some explanation and prompt needed instruction on the subject, as permission would have to be sought before the candidate could be initiated. I would hope the candidate would be advised in a fair manner, so that they may make an informed decision as to a Rite of preference. I could see how it might be somewhat impractical to cover the subject of the breadth of the Universal Catholic Church as part of RCIA preparation, assuming the candidate is eligible and canonically belonging to the Latin Rite, as other matter of catechesis would be necessarily emphasized.

 

[Elijahmaria]

Thanks for posting this response, and glad to learn that you were inspired to become an Eastern Rite Catholic!

We can thank St. Teresa of Avila and her spiritual father, John of Avila and Evagrios the Solitary for that!!

Pleased to meet you!

 

[Elvis_Guy]

I doubt it is an intended downplay or disregard of EC …just by its nature, RCIA is not even a…mini-Seminary or a Spectrum of history/theology/semantics…by nature…Roman Catholic …Adult Initiation … While in theory it would be nice if more ground were covered…it would in time, material , preparation be a burden, that said…many who go through RCIA…get a taste for broader Church History and Theology…and often begin to read and explore…my church has classes books, lectures, that one can do after (or even during) RCIA, I’m giving the simple answer not simplistic ( or at least I hope not ) that RCIA is not comprehensive , yet will lay a decent and solid outline for those coming into the Church. (I don’t think their is a "Hey, let’s pretend that , well there is no Eastern Catholic Church! In fact I’m rather sure of it.) the basic answer is RCIA is general and presents an outline for many…who may be of say Baptist or other backgrounds. The need is …hitting basics… It is no intended slight of Eastern Catholicism…in fact if you asked the Class Director and Instructor I am sure most would be happy to field EC questions… Pax!!!

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I doubt it is an intended downplay or disregard of EC …just by its nature, … The need is …hitting basics…

Well said! Thanks for your post!

Interestingly enough, I just received an unexpected call from my uncle / Godfather who is a certified RCIA instructor serving in his Latin Rite parish and diocese. He confirmed much of what has been said throughout this thread.

He also characterized RCIA instruction as a “crash course Catechism”.

Let’s hope everyone receiving RCIA instruction makes it through safely!:hypno: