Why don't Christians celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread?

[Cathoholic]

Although the Lamb HAD been slain, notice St. John was STILL seeing this Lamb being presented in Heaven. (Past tense and present tense which is just what we’d expect if the Lamb transcended time and eternity).

REVELATION 5:5-6a, 8-9, 11-13 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Weep not; lo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.” 6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders,** I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain** . . . 8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; 9 and they sang** a new song**, saying, "Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, . . . . 11 Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” 13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!”

Notice it HAD BEEN slain (past tense) yet St. John ALSO sees the sacrificial imagery as the Lamb in the present tense too.

(Remember. I am not denying the Lamb WAS slain in the past. What I am asserting is He still presents Himself as “The Lamb” even AFTER that.)

Here is the readying of the Wedding Feast of the Lamb.

REVELATION 19:7-9a 7 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; 8 it was granted her to be clothed with fine linen, bright and pure"-- for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. 9 And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb."

Now AFTER earthly time has passed . . . .

REVELATION 21:1-7a 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them; . . . 5 And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 And he said to me, **"It is done! **I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment. 7 He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son.

“The fountain of the water” is drawn from the water and the blood which flow from the side of Christ (Baptismal imagery for the Water . . . . and Eucharistic imagery for the blood . . . . flowing from Christ after pierced with the spear). Ezekiel prophesies about this concerning the Baptismal imagery. And remember from the CCC, that Baptism puts us INTO Christ’s Paschal Mystery.

Revelation 21 (below) is AFTER the earth has passed away. And the angel (who had the bowls of plagues) tells St. John he is going to show him the Church (or “the bride of the Lamb”). Also notice Jesus is still being referred to as “the Lamb” after Heaven and earth pass away. (Sacrificial imagery)

REVELATION 21:9a, c -11a 9 Then came one of the seven angels . . . saying, "Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10 And in the Spirit he carried me away to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God,

And of course this is NOT what was said in Revelation 21 . . . .

NOT REVELATION 21:9a, c 9 Then came one of the seven angels . . . saying, "Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of what used to be the Lamb."

 

[MartinJordan]

But I am not claiming another Sacrifice in Heaven. I am not claiming a new “slaying”.

I want to be clear on that. No new sacrifice.

I didn’t think you did. My wording faulty. Sorry about that.

I am saying Jesus’ one once for all Sacrifice on Calvary is united to Heavenly eternity (“Divine Eternity”).

And we don’t CEASE to be part of His Paschal Mystery at the end of time.

And without Jesus’ Paschal Mystery there is NO “Wedding Supper of the Lamb.”

---

The Church teaches . . .

Church Teaching The Paschal mystery of Christ . . . participates in the DIVINE ETERNITY, and so transcends all times while being made present in them all

Yet I get the sense that some are tying to say . . . .

NOT Church Teaching The Paschal mystery of Christ . . . participates in the EARTHLY ETERNITY ONLY, and so transcends only created time but NOT the Divine eternity so it vanishes at the end of time.

Ok. I just want to understand two things.

a) Isn’t the Mass the Sacrifice of the Cross? If it is the latter, how is Mass in Heaven in that sense?

b) Jesus being human and divine, the human sacrifice was completed in time right?

MJ

 

[steve_b]

I didn’t think you did. My wording faulty. Sorry about that.

Ok. I just want to understand two things.

a) Isn’t the Mass the Sacrifice of the Cross? If it is the latter, how is Mass in Heaven in that sense?

b) Jesus being human and divine, the human sacrifice was completed in time right?

MJ

Jesus being divine, is outside of time. There is no clock in eternity. No past present or future, it’s just the eternal now.

 

[MartinJordan]

Jesus being divine, is outside of time. There is no clock in eternity. No past present or future, it’s just the eternal now.

That’s true. But the Mass the Sacrifice of the Cross consummated by the priest (man). How is this in Heaven?

Also the priest will conclude “the Mass is ended” thus what has actually ended here then?

MJ

 

[steve_b]

That’s true. But the Mass the Sacrifice of the Cross consummated by the priest (man). How is this in Heaven?

We have no idea how long this universe will exist. Supposedly, NASA says it is 13.2 b years old. +/- 2%. If one believes that, suppose it carries on for another 13.2 B years. Is the sacrifice of the mass still effective 13 B yrs from now?
M:

Also the priest will conclude “the Mass is ended” thus what has actually ended here then?

MJ

If he said that on Saturday evening, the priest has 4 more masses to celebrate the next day. He says after each mass, “this mass has ended…”. And then there is at least 1 daily mass after that, and 5 or 6 masses the next weekend, etc etc etc…

What Jesus did is eternal. That’s why John in Rev, describes the liturgy that he saw in heaven is what we see at mass yesterday today and tomorrow and …

 

[Cathoholic]

MartinJordan:

Ok. I just want to understand two things.

a) Isn’t the Mass the Sacrifice of the Cross? If it is the latter, how is Mass in Heaven in that sense?

b) Jesus being human and divine, the human sacrifice was completed in time right?

Great questions MJ…

I can’t answer that fully because it’s part of a Mystery (the Paschal Mystery).

But we CAN probe this Mystery deeper (with much more profound thoughts than I could ever come up with).

I think the short answer to this is Jesus and His transcendence.

Jesus THE Priest offers Himself to the Father eternally (this is a priestly function). This “offering” is united somehow to His Sacrifice on Calvary. The Sacrifice on Calvary and the Sacrifice of the Mass (and in Heaven) is in one sense the same, and in another sense different.

This from the Baltimore Catechism (bold & parenthetical addition mine) . . .

264. Q. What is a sacrifice?

A. A sacrifice is the offering of an object by a priest to God alone, and the consuming (think John 19:30 “It is finished” or “It is consummated” or as Revelation 21:6 says, “It is done.” or even think in terms of an earthly marriage [that is a mere shadow of the Heavenly Marriage]) of it to acknowledge that He is the Creator and Lord of all things.

265. Q. Is the Mass the same sacrifice as that of the Cross?

A. The Mass is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross.

266. Q. How is the Mass the same sacrifice as that of the Cross?

A. The Mass is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross because the offering and the priest are the same-Christ our Blessed Lord; and the ends for which the sacrifice of the Mass is offered are the same as those of the sacrifice of the Cross… . . .

. . . . 268. Q. Is there any difference between the sacrifice of the Cross and the sacrifice of the Mass?

Yes; the manner in which the sacrifice is offered is different. On the Cross Christ really shed His blood and was really slain; in the Mass there is no real shedding of blood nor real death, because Christ can die no more; but the sacrifice of the Mass, through the separate consecration of the bread and the wine, represents His death on the Cross.

I think its important to remember “through the separate consecration of the bread and the wine, represents His death on the Cross” but it doesn’t MERELY “represent” it (the focus here is in the Balt. Cat. I think, is the SEPARATE consecrations in “representation”).

This from the Roman Catechism

ROMAN CATECHISM They should teach, then, in the first place, that the Eucharist was instituted by Christ for two purposes: one, that it might be the heavenly food of our souls, enabling us to support and preserve spiritual life; and the other, that the Church might have a perpetual Sacrifice, by which our sins might be expiated, and our heavenly Father, oftentimes grievously offended by our crimes, might be turned away from wrath to mercy, from the severity of just chastisement to clemency.** Of this thing we may observe a type and resemblance in the Paschal lamb, which was wont to be offered and eaten by the children of Israel as a sacrament and a sacrifice.**

Cardinal Ratzinger (pre-Pope Benedict) puts it this way (with some minor formatting changes and parenthetical additions from me) . . . . .

Heaven, therefore, must first and foremost be determined christologically.

It is not an extra-historical place into which one goes. Heaven’s existence depends upon the fact that Jesus Christ, as God, is man, and makes space for human existence in the existence of God himself.114

One is in heaven when, and to the degree, that one is in Christ.

It is by being with Christ that we find the true location of our existence as human beings in God. Heaven is thus primarily a personal reality, and one that remains forever shaped by its historical origin in **the paschal mystery of death and resurrection. **

From this christological center, all the other elements which belong to the tradition’s concept of heaven may be inferred.

And, in pride of place, from this christological foundation there follows a theological affirmation: **the glorified Christ stands in a continuous posture of self-giving to his Father. **

Indeed, he is that self-giving. (This is a priestly function. In this case Jesus is both Priest AND Victim and as the late Cardinal Manning said in his book, “The ETERNAL Priesthood” Jesus is also “the Altar”)

**The paschal sacrifice abides in him as an enduring presence. **

For this reason, heaven, as our becoming one with Christ, takes on the nature of adoration. All cult prefigures it, and in it comes to completion.

Christ is the temple of the final age;115 he is heaven, the new Jerusalem; he is the cultic space for God.

The ascending movement of humanity in its union with Christ is answered by the descending movement of God’s love in its self-gift to us.

And so worship, in its heavenly, perfected form, entails an immediacy between God and man which knows of no setting asunder.

p. 234 Eschatology. Death and Eternal Life. Joseph Ratzinger. Second Edition p. 234

 

[MartinJordan]

We have no idea how long this universe will exist. Supposedly, NASA says it is 13.2 b years old. +/- 2%. If one believes that, suppose it carries on for another 13.2 B years. Is the sacrifice of the mass still effective 13 B yrs from now?

I can whole-fully answer yes. Mass is still effective because the earth is not eternal but Heaven is. So Mass will continue to be re-presented. The Sacrifice of the Mass consummated by the ministerial priests of the Catholic Church on earth.

If he said that on Saturday evening, the priest has 4 more masses to celebrate the next day. He says after each mass, “this mass has ended…”. And then there is at least 1 daily mass after that, and 5 or 6 masses the next weekend, etc etc etc…

What Jesus did is eternal. That’s why John in Rev, describes the liturgy that he saw in heaven is what we see at mass yesterday today and tomorrow and …

I think I understand what you are saying and I’m with you.No problem.

So, back to your point, Jesus did was eternal. Agreed!

But going back to my former answer above here. The Mass goes on with the ministerial Priest of the Catholic Church consummates the Sacrifice of the Mass (ie Sacrifice of the Cross) re-presented. However then in Heaven is the Sacrifice of the Cross re-presented?

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

MartinJordan:

Great questions MJ…

I can’t answer that fully because it’s part of a Mystery (the Paschal Mystery).

But we CAN probe this Mystery deeper (with much more profound thoughts than I could ever come up with).

I think the short answer to this is Jesus and His transcendence.

Jesus THE Priest offers Himself to the Father eternally (this is a priestly function). This “offering” is united somehow to His Sacrifice on Calvary. The Sacrifice on Calvary and the Sacrifice of the Mass (and in Heaven) is in one sense the same, and in another sense different.

This from the Baltimore Catechism (bold & parenthetical addition mine) . . .

264. Q. What is a sacrifice?

A. A sacrifice is the offering of an object by a priest to God alone, and the consuming (think John 19:30 “It is finished” or “It is consummated” or as Revelation 21:6 says, “It is done.” or even think in terms of an earthly marriage [that is a mere shadow of the Heavenly Marriage]) of it to acknowledge that He is the Creator and Lord of all things.

265. Q. Is the Mass the same sacrifice as that of the Cross?

A. The Mass is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross.

266. Q. How is the Mass the same sacrifice as that of the Cross?

A. The Mass is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross because the offering and the priest are the same-Christ our Blessed Lord; and the ends for which the sacrifice of the Mass is offered are the same as those of the sacrifice of the Cross… . . .

. . . . 268. Q. Is there any difference between the sacrifice of the Cross and the sacrifice of the Mass?

Yes; the manner in which the sacrifice is offered is different. On the Cross Christ really shed His blood and was really slain; in the Mass there is no real shedding of blood nor real death, because Christ can die no more; but the sacrifice of the Mass, through the separate consecration of the bread and the wine, represents His death on the Cross.

I think its important to remember “through the separate consecration of the bread and the wine, represents His death on the Cross” but it doesn’t MERELY “represent” it (the focus here is in the Balt. Cat. I think, is the SEPARATE consecrations in “representation”).

This from the Roman Catechism

ROMAN CATECHISM They should teach, then, in the first place, that the Eucharist was instituted by Christ for two purposes: one, that it might be the heavenly food of our souls, enabling us to support and preserve spiritual life; and the other, that the Church might have a perpetual Sacrifice, by which our sins might be expiated, and our heavenly Father, oftentimes grievously offended by our crimes, might be turned away from wrath to mercy, from the severity of just chastisement to clemency.** Of this thing we may observe a type and resemblance in the Paschal lamb**, which was wont to be offered and eaten by the children of Israel as a sacrament and a sacrifice.

Cardinal Ratzinger (pre-Pope Benedict) puts it this way (with some minor formatting changes and parenthetical additions from me) . . . . .

Heaven, therefore, must first and foremost be determined christologically.

It is not an extra-historical place into which one goes. Heaven’s existence depends upon the fact that Jesus Christ, as God, is man, and makes space for human existence in the existence of God himself.114

One is in heaven when, and to the degree, that one is in Christ.

It is by being with Christ that we find the true location of our existence as human beings in God. Heaven is thus primarily a personal reality, and one that remains forever shaped by its historical origin in **the paschal mystery of death and resurrection. **

From this christological center, all the other elements which belong to the tradition’s concept of heaven may be inferred.

And, in pride of place, from this christological foundation there follows a theological affirmation: the glorified Christ stands in a continuous posture of self-giving to his Father.

Indeed, he is that self-giving. (This is a priestly function. In this case Jesus is both Priest AND Victim and as the late Cardinal Manning said in his book, “The ETERNAL Priesthood” Jesus is also “the Altar”)

The paschal sacrifice abides in him as an enduring presence.

For this reason, heaven, as our becoming one with Christ, takes on the nature of adoration. All cult prefigures it, and in it comes to completion.

Christ is the temple of the final age;115 he is heaven, the new Jerusalem; he is the cultic space for God.

The ascending movement of humanity in its union with Christ is answered by the descending movement of God’s love in its self-gift to us.

And so worship, in its heavenly, perfected form, entails an immediacy between God and man which knows of no setting asunder.

p. 234 Eschatology. Death and Eternal Life. Joseph Ratzinger. Second Edition p. 234

Thank you Cathoholic. I’ll go through this. Meanwhile, I would like to give you this link, which works (James248) brought it up and it is this:

newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.sg/2012/11/is-there-mass-in-heaven-is-christ.html

Granted I initially showed Dr. Scott Hahn’s commentary to Steveb who is also btw patiently answering my queries but I believe Dr. SH possibly may have overstated his views.

The link is by a priest of the Catholic Church and Dr,. SH is not so I would be more inclined to refer to the former.

God bless.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

We have no idea how long this universe will exist. Supposedly, NASA says it is 13.2 b years old. +/- 2%. If one believes that, suppose it carries on for another 13.2 B years. Is the sacrifice of the mass still effective 13 B yrs from now?

It just came to me that on Good Friday there is no Mass.

MJ

 

[Cathoholic]

Thanks for the link MJ.

(The link is pretty much what has been quoted here earlier and the whole point seems predicated on the “past tense” argument. An argument I agree with. But the conclusion drawn from that is inconsistent with other teachings so I cannot adopt it as it is. Those inconsistencies were never addressed in the link. So I just accept the “yes/and” hermeneutic . . . instead of the new trimmed down “either/or” view.)

It just came to me that on Good Friday there is no Mass.

But think of the Triduum as one liturgical day.

This from the USCCB . . . .

The summit of the Liturgical Year is the Easter Triduum—from the evening of Holy Thursday to the evening of Easter Sunday. Though chronologically three days,** they are liturgically one day** unfolding for us the unity of Christ’s Paschal Mystery.

The Triduum is one liturgical day unfolding the transcendence or UNITY of Christ’s Paschal Mystery!.

Then this . . . .

The liturgical services that take place during the Triduum are:

• Mass of the Lord’s Supper

• Good Friday of the Lord’s Passion

• Mass of the Resurrection of the Lord

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-year/triduum/

I told the same thing to my wife once. She said to me: “Think of the Triduum as one Mass.” (She was told this by a Priest)

 

[MartinJordan]

Thanks for the link MJ.

(The link is pretty much what has been quoted here earlier and the whole point seems predicated on the “past tense” argument. An argument I agree with. But the conclusion drawn from that is inconsistent with other teachings so I cannot adopt it as it is. Those inconsistencies were never addressed in the link. So I just accept the “yes/and” hermeneutic . . . instead of the new trimmed down “either/or” view.)

But think of the Triduum as one liturgical day.

This from the USCCB . . . .

The Triduum is one liturgical day unfolding the transcendence or UNITY of Christ’s Paschal Mystery!.

Then this . . . .

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-year/triduum/

I told the same thing to my wife once. She said to me: “Think of the Triduum as one Mass.” (She was told this by a Priest)

Can you point out the conclusion being inconsistent, for me?

Perhaps in relation with (I may discuss this further in a pm if you don’t mind) from St. Thomas Aquinas:

In this state of the Blessed, then, nothing in regard to worship of God will be figurative; there will be naught but thanksgiving and voice of praise (Isaiah 51:3). Hence it is written concerning the city of the Blessed (Apocalypse 21:22): I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty is the temple thereof, and the Lamb.” (ST I-II, q.103, a.3)

Thanks in advance Cathoholic.

MJ

 

[Cathoholic]

Can you point out the conclusion being inconsistent, for me?

The inconsistency that I could not reconcile with the quote (or link) was the emphasis of the “past-tense” issue of Passover (while seemingly ignoring the present and future tense aspects which were ignored).

Then seemingly concluding that the Paschal Mystery is MERELY a “past-tense” event. (but maybe I am misreading the item??)

The Catechetical teachings in the CCC seem to offer a FULLER theology. Especially the participation in the Paschal Mystery in the DIVINE eternity,

Our Jewish friends make a big deal about how they personally PARTICIPATE in the Passover in Egypt and how that even transcends time.

I have no doubt they are correct.

If this is true of the Passover in Egypt, how much MORE TRUE, would that be for our participating in Christ’s Passover. Take that with the command of God to make Passover an immemorial event, look at who Jesus is and what He did (does), look at the Church teachings, and its hard to conclude anything but a fuller view. At least for me.

I agree with the “past tense” aspect. I just would not conclude this means MERELY a “past tense” that’s all. That’s WHY it’s a MYSTERY . . . The Paschal Mystery. And this Mystery transcends time in the DIVINE eternity.

 

[MartinJordan]

The inconsistency that I could not reconcile with the quote (or link) was the emphasis of the “past-tense” issue of Passover (while seemingly ignoring the present and future tense aspects which were ignored).

Then seemingly concluding that the Paschal Mystery is MERELY a “past-tense” event. (but maybe I am misreading the item??)

The Catechetical teachings in the CCC seem to offer a FULLER theology. Especially the participation in the Paschal Mystery in the DIVINE eternity,

Our Jewish friends make a big deal about how they personally PARTICIPATE in the Passover in Egypt and how that even transcends time.

I have no doubt they are correct.

If this is true of the Passover in Egypt, how much MORE TRUE, would that be for our participating in Christ’s Passover. Take that with the command of God to make Passover an immemorial event, look at who Jesus is and what He did (does), look at the Church teachings, and its hard to conclude anything but a fuller view. At least for me.

I agree with the “past tense” aspect. I just would not conclude this means MERELY a “past tense” that’s all. That’s WHY it’s a MYSTERY . . . The Paschal Mystery. And this Mystery transcends time in the DIVINE eternity.

Got it!

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[steve_b]

I can whole-fully answer yes. Mass is still effective because the earth is not eternal but Heaven is. So Mass will continue to be re-presented. The Sacrifice of the Mass consummated by the ministerial priests of the Catholic Church on earth.

I think I understand what you are saying and I’m with you.No problem.

So, back to your point, Jesus did was eternal. Agreed!

But going back to my former answer above here. The Mass goes on with the ministerial Priest of the Catholic Church consummates the Sacrifice of the Mass (ie Sacrifice of the Cross) re-presented. However then in Heaven is the Sacrifice of the Cross re-presented?

MJ

It just came to me that on Good Friday there is no Mass.

MJ

Got it!

Peace be with you.

MJ

Looks like you got your answer

 

[MartinJordan]

Looks like you got your answer

Yes I did Steve. Thank you also for your patience.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[joe371]

Or celebrate the Sabbath on the Sabbath?? Everybody knows that the Sabbath is Saturday, right? So why on Sunday?

Anyway… The Feast of Unleavened Bread is in Leviticus 23. It’s celebrated up there with the Passover.

At what point does the Church get to say what Feasts are or are not celebrated in the Old Testament or the New? My buddy from work brings this all up and uses the quote that “Jesus didn’t come to abolish the law, He came to fulfill it.” From Matthew 5:17.

I think this guy has some type of Jewish leaning, but he was definitely not born Jewish. He does refer to Jesus as the Messiah, but he does not believe He is the Son of God, at least not anymore than you or me. I definitely believe that we are all Children of God, which I know that Jesus says in numerous ways… even in the First two words of the Our Father!

Did Jesus really believe that he was going to be ending the Feast of Unleavened Bread? I mean… from a health standpoint, it makes great sense to rid the body of yeast for a week. Kinda makes me sad that I hadn’t heard about this Feast sooner.

So don’t forget, a 2-parter – Sabbath and Feast of Unleavened Bread? Why is it acceptable to ignore “The Law”? I mean… if ever there were two laws I wouldn’t want to ignore, these might be them.

Hey Giftedchildren. Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday - something all Christians, regardless of denomination - agree with - correct?

As per scripture, the Old testament sabbath was a shadow of things to come - with Jesus fulfilling it: "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

The first day of the week - early Sunday morning - Jesus rose from the dead, as per scripture: “Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.”

As per scripture the breaking of the bread - Eucharist - also took place on the first day of the week (Sunday):

“On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day.” Acts 20:7

If the early Catholic Church gathered to break bread on the first day of the week (i.e. Sunday) shouldn’t later generations follow suit?

Just as an aside, weekly collections also occurred on Sunday (first day of the week).

“Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.” 1 Cor 16:1-2

Your thoughts friend?

 

[meltzerboy]

Hey Giftedchildren. Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday - something all Christians, regardless of denomination - agree with - correct?

As per scripture, the Old testament sabbath was a shadow of things to come - with Jesus fulfilling it: "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

The first day of the week - early Sunday morning - Jesus rose from the dead, as per scripture: “Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.”

As per scripture the breaking of the bread - Eucharist - also took place on the first day of the week (Sunday):

“On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day.” Acts 20:7

If the early Catholic Church gathered to break bread on the first day of the week (i.e. Sunday) shouldn’t later generations follow suit?

Just as an aside, weekly collections also occurred on Sunday (first day of the week).

“Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.” 1 Cor 16:1-2

Your thoughts friend?

My thoughts, as a Jew, are how can one of the ten commandments be merely a “shadow,” and, if so, then why are the other commandments, such as to honor thy father and thy mother and not to kill, steal, or commit adultery, not also shadows?

Further, what does it mean to say that Jesus “fulfilled” the Sabbath? How is a sabbath fulfilled?

 

[Cathoholic]

Hi Meltzerboy.

I think ALL 10 Commandments in a sense do get changed or in some sense “elevated” now (and in another sense they are timeless).

Admittedly I haven’t done specific homework on this.

But I think . . .

The world is fallen

We personally need a re-birth.

But all creation is in need too. “Behold. I make all things new” Jesus says in the Book of Revelation. God so loved THE WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son. Etc.

Because of Jesus, we receive a “new heavens and a new earth.”

In Matthew 5 Jesus said something to the effect of . . . “You have heard it said of men of old, you shall not committ adultery. But I say to you, anyone who looks lustfully at a woman committs adultery.”

Again, I did not do my “home work” on this and my answer may be impetuous, (as it is something that I just thought of even before finishing your question) but I thought I’d share it anyway.

 

[joe371]

=meltzerboy;14628716]My thoughts, as a Jew, are how can one of the ten commandments be merely a “shadow,” and, if so, then why are the other commandments, such as to honor thy father and thy mother and not to kill, steal, or commit adultery, not also shadows?

Further, what does it mean to say that Jesus “fulfilled” the Sabbath? How is a sabbath fulfilled?/QUOTE

Hey melter boy. The focus is on this commandment - “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.” Did Jesus, in your estimation, remember to keep the Sabbath day holy, on that night? If he was the messiah, did he have the right to do what he did, in terms of fulfilling the prophecy of Jerimiah, regarding the new covenant? “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

 

[joe371]

Judaism today believes most of what Paul said. That is, no conversion to Judaism is necessary (at the time of the Messiah) although the nations (gentiles) will realize, finally, Who G-d is. And, in the meantime, the Torah is not to be imposed upon Christians, who are not obligated toward following its commandments except for the Seven Laws of Noah.

BTW, is it not the case that Peter had a quite different idea from Paul regarding conversion of the gentiles and other matters, and that Petrine Christianity is significantly different from Pauline Christianity?

No. Peter and Paul agreed in terms of people becoming followers of the messiah - Jesus. Perhaps you could give me an example where the two men disagree regarding the idea of following the Christ?