Why don't Muslims become Christian?

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To say that Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha is OK because she wasn’t “forced” (leaving aside for now the question of how a child can truly consent to marriage) is so disturbing, I am not sure where to begin. Are you saying, Muslim Woman, that as long as the six year old WANTS to be married, then there is no problem? I have little cousins, and one day they want to be doctors, and the next day they want to be football players, or astronauts, or whatever. Does this mean that I should trust them to perform open heart surgery on me, or send them out in to space? Of course, most little girls dream of being married…when they grow up. Not when they are six years old.

And what about Muhammad’s famous morality? Surely HE could (should!) have refused her on account of her age. He is, after all, a supposedly wise old man and prophet of God. But no, he did the exact opposite. He desired her. 😦

Maybe I’m crazy, but if a six year old or a nine year old or any child wanted to marry me, I would certainly say “NO!” and suggest that their parents pay closer attention to them, since they are obviously in need of parental guidance and love, not to be given away as gifts to old men for their gratification.

All that said, on the topic of this thread: That is a silly question. Muslims don’t become Christians for the same reason that we do not become Muslims: they do not view it as the true faith. Is there really some other reason out there the OP is hoping to find?
exactly. Muhammad seemed to be an angry individual and carried that out to his followers and his wives
 
I am not in the Qur’an-only “camp” as you put it. The opinion of the scholars of Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah is that the person who rejects the Sunnah of the Prophet (saaws) is rejecting part of Islam.

And what you quoted is indeed an authentic hadith, which doesn’t make me lose any sleep at night. I might be worried if I were in your shoes, however.

What paarsurrey believes is his own business. I have no interest in arguing with him.
God gives the right to men to kill other men according to your religion. Where does the commandment thou shall not kill come into Islam?
Another point where Islam fails to follow the commandments.
 
Hello,
I am a former Muslim and I have a question for all the Muslims on this list. Why don’t you become a Christian; or, more specifically, a Catholic Christian?

Doctrine, habit, tradition, experience, society.


**Those are what keep people in the beliefs they grow up with. **
 

Doctrine, habit, tradition, experience, society.


**Those are what keep people in the beliefs they grow up with. **
In the case of Muslims, that and the very real fear and threat of being murdered for leaving the faith.
 
For some, they don’t want to convert, so they can have the christians as a scapegoats for their miseries.

Some have to fuel and justify their hateful attitude.

For some it is a way to stay in power.

For some fueling hatred is a means of livelihood.

For some they find chritianity a fake and corrupted religion.

For some Islam is the final revelation of God.

Which group are you?😃
 
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Salaam/ Peace
… most little girls dream of being married…when they grow up
You must not condemn a marriage that took place more than a thousand years ago by today’s culture/ standard . It was very common in the past , lawful regarding all major holy books.

Now a days , a school girl of 14/15 years are considered as tooooo young for marriage . If u browse , u will see how many of them are becoming mothers or killing the unborn babies . Today’s men made laws allow these young girls to enjoy illegal close relatioships with unlimited partners but they are not allowed have a legal husband.

Mother Mary (p) was maximum 13 or 14 years old when she gave birth to the lord of the Christian world. Ever thought , under today’s laws , Police must have arrested earthy father of Jesus (p) . Thanks God , Jesus (p) was born more than a thousand years ago. So , baby Jesus (p) , his dear mom & her husband did not face any legal problems.
 
You must not condemn a marriage that took place more than a thousand years ago by today’s culture/ standard . It was very common in the past , lawful regarding all major holy books.
I am afraid I don’t accept this at all. If the prophet is for all times then his action should be good for all times, unless you agree that the Quran is for the seventh century pagans only. After they were Islamized and that was it?

After all it concerned moral and sin and I don’t think they are any different now. And I would expect a prophet to know better.
 
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/ Peace

You must not condemn a marriage that took place more than a thousand years ago by today’s culture/ standard . It was very common in the past , lawful regarding all major holy books.

Now a days , a school girl of 14/15 years are considered as tooooo young for marriage . If u browse , u will see how many of them are becoming mothers or killing the unborn babies . Today’s men made laws allow these young girls to enjoy illegal close relatioships with unlimited partners but they are not allowed have a legal husband.

Mother Mary (p) was maximum 13 or 14 years old when she gave birth to the lord of the Christian world. Ever thought , under today’s laws , Police must have arrested earthy father of Jesus (p) . Thanks God , Jesus (p) was born more than a thousand years ago. So , baby Jesus (p) , his dear mom & her husband did not face any legal problems.
A very good thought provoking post by the M W. Thanks

I may add a self confession by one of the very famous western writer philosopher of recent times. He admitted (said) that he never went near wine and women before the age of 11.

Some one asked him about the secret of his long age. He replied that he did not go near wine and women before the age of 11.

The christians have closed their eyes to the bitter fruits of their lawless civilisation.
.
 
To say that Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha is OK because she wasn’t “forced” (leaving aside for now the question of how a child can truly consent to marriage) is so disturbing, I am not sure where to begin. Are you saying, Muslim Woman, that as long as the six year old WANTS to be married, then there is no problem? I have little cousins, and one day they want to be doctors, and the next day they want to be football players, or astronauts, or whatever. Does this mean that I should trust them to perform open heart surgery on me, or send them out in to space? Of course, most little girls dream of being married…when they grow up. Not when they are six years old.
**This topic is running on some Hadith which is not supported by the Quran. It is all malafide discussion. We have knowledge about the giving birth by Mary to Jesus at a very young age without meeting a lawful husband. We could discuss that to expose some weak points in it. There is no use maligning the prophet on the basis of some news in the Hadith. After all the Arab people knew everything better than the present day christians. They had much more Grace and consideration. **.
And what about Muhammad’s famous morality? Surely HE could (should!) have refused her on account of her age. He is, after all, a supposedly wise old man and prophet of God. But no, he did the exact opposite. He desired her.
:

** Again same line of questioning, could be carried to the birth of Jesus in unnatural, dubious circumstances.**
Maybe I’m crazy, but if a six year old or a nine year old or any child wanted to marry me, I would certainly say “NO!” and suggest that their parents pay closer attention to them, since they are obviously in need of parental guidance and love, not to be given away as gifts to old men for their gratification
.

** I say too much of same line of bad thinking is going on. There is no need to carry it further. Unless you are ready to discuss or explain about the pregnancy of Mary, the mother. **.
All that said, on the topic of this thread: That is a silly question. Muslims don’t become Christians for the same reason that we do not become Muslims: they do not view it as the true faith. Is there really some other reason out there the OP is hoping to find?
**This is alright. It is the real subject and may be discussed at any length. I may give some reply to you.

I do not become a christian because I am already half christian. I believe in Mary and Jesus. I respect them highly but I do not call them christian. I call then honest Jews. I have Jesus with me and also Moses a.s.

I have Joseph son of Jacob. I have David and Soloman and Jacob and Issac and Abraham. I do not miss any one. I have no problem.

i do not want to go near the church because of its wrong attitude and bad teachings, all supposed beliefs which are quite un-natural, irrational, illegal, unbelievable.

Christians want the Muslims to believe all the unbelievable things. Yet when we say that God revealed to Muhammad through the angel, the christians at once apply their brakes and say that was impossible. They even blame that Muhammad was visited by the devil and not by any angel.

In such circumstances, how can any Muslim even look towards the faith of the christians. The initial teachings of Jesus was alright and true. But since then, during early 300 years of early christianity, the real teachings of Jesus have been derailed (obliterated) by some one and the christians have been fooled into false beliefs. So they can continue in their faith. Most likely, the Muslims who have better beliefs will not accept the present day teachings of the church.**
 
God gives the right to men to kill other men according to your religion. Where does the commandment thou shall not kill come into Islam?
Another point where Islam fails to follow the commandments.
** DiL, the commandment was given to Moses a.s. Not to jesus. You do not follow the commandments. So please do not ask why the Muslims do this or that. Do you follow any commandment?

Also you do not understand things. The Commandment was given to the Jews. They understood it better than you. Did they act on it? Did they never kill any one? That their leaders did not kill or order to kill people? Please see OT and Joshua.

The problem is that you do not understand the commandment. It is very brief. It means you will not kill any one illegaly, unduly. Otherwise the commandment becomes wrong, null and void.

Please comment and reply to my questions. I may be misguided about your (christian) commandments.**
 
A very good thought provoking post by the M W. Thanks

I may add a self confession by one of the very famous western writer philosopher of recent times. He admitted (said) that he never went near wine and women before the age of 11.

Some one asked him about the secret of his long age. He replied that he did not go near wine and women before the age of 11.

The christians have closed their eyes to the bitter fruits of their lawless civilisation.
.
What you’re posting doesn’t even make sense, Planten. Who drinks and consorts with women under or at the age of 11? People with very deep personal and emotional problems, I’m sure, but not “Christians” as a whole, and certainly not in principle.

You really need to remove from your head the notion that some writer (who?) you read about or saw on TV is an expert on the west or the morality of western societies. If you only feed yourself with the opinions of famous people, you’ll likely get a very distorted view of whatever it is you are looking at. Should I only listen to Osama Bin Laden if I want to know about Islam? After all, he is on my TV and in newspapers much more often than the average Muslim. Is this proof of the inherently rotten moral system of the Muslims?

You speak only in vague generalities that are not applicable to any westerner I know. In real life, morality transcends all man-made borders, since GOD who gave us all the guidance transcends your petty, stereotyped notions of “East” and “West” civilizations and religions.

Christianity was born in the East, by the way, and by the grace of God remains there in the monasteries and churches of Palestine, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, etc. Maybe you should think a little harder about the way you divide up the world if you think that suddenly “Christianity” and the “West” are interchangable terms, because all of the locations I listed above were Christian and Jewish before the coming of Islam. Christians are, or were, indigenous to every Muslim land, a fact that you cannot cover up even though your forefathers in the Islamic faith murdered them and expelled them from North Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, and other places. “Lawless civilizations”? You don’t realize it, but you are condemning most of the world for what you see as the failings of what are in fact modern secular countries that are only associated with the religion in your own mind (certainly not in the minds of those who actually founded the United States). Why you would choose to condemn Christians in such disparate places as Ethiopia (the second oldest Christian nation in the world), Armenia (the first), India (Christianity introduced by St. Thomas in 52 AD), and Iraq (1st century AD) for all the things you see wrong with the United States or Europe is not clear to me. You are drawing connections that are not really there.

To paraphrase an argument I’ve read on here from Muslims many, many times: When a Muslim commits some crime, his religion is always mentioned, but when a Christian does, his religion is never mentioned. It would seem that with you, when the lax moral attitudes of a country or a society are beneath your personal standards, it is automatically the fault of the dominant religion there. Would you be so kind as to apply your own reasoning to any failings you find among your fellow Islamic believers, please? You are also not shy about telling us how such-and-such a group is not practicing “real” Islam, so no doubt you can find such abuses. So, please, condemn their religion as you do ours, or leave Christianity out as an essential ingredient in the West’s moral decay.
 
** DiL, the commandment was given to Moses a.s. Not to jesus. You do not follow the commandments. So please do not ask why the Muslims do this or that. Do you follow any commandment?

Also you do not understand things. The Commandment was given to the Jews. They understood it better than you. Did they act on it? Did they never kill any one? That their leaders did not kill or order to kill people? Please see OT and Joshua.

The problem is that you do not understand the commandment. It is very brief. It means you will not kill any one illegaly, unduly. Otherwise the commandment becomes wrong, null and void.

Please comment and reply to my questions. I may be misguided about your (christian) commandments.**
Planten, YOU are the one who does not understand the commandment, yet islam doesnt understand it either.
Thou shall not kill means just that… YOU DONT KILL ANYONE!
Dont forget planten, Jesus is God, so in essence, he was the one that gave the commandments, is he not?
And yes, i do follow the commandments, i have a sound knowledge and understanding of ALL the commandments.

You dont understand the bible one bit, as you constantly tell us its ‘corrupt’. Why not try reading it with an open mind instead of going on with the rubbish you go on with?
 
Planten, YOU are the one who does not understand the commandment, yet islam doesnt understand it either.
Thou shall not kill means just that… YOU DONT KILL ANYONE!
Dont forget planten, Jesus is God, so in essence, he was the one that gave the commandments, is he not?
And yes, i do follow the commandments, i have a sound knowledge and understanding of ALL the commandments.

You dont understand the bible one bit, as you constantly tell us its ‘corrupt’. Why not try reading it with an open mind instead of going on with the rubbish you go on with?
Okay, DiL, thanks for the advice. And please tell me about all the commandments. Please post them here now, one by one, in original with reference. Then I will go about understanding them.
 
Christians want the Muslims to believe all the unbelievable things. Yet when we say that God revealed to Muhammad through the angel, the christians at once apply their brakes and say that was impossible. They even blame that Muhammad was visited by the devil and not by any angel.
I personally do not say that Muhammad was visited by the devil (though I have heard that he may have thought he was, at first), because it makes no difference to me, either way. We are told that should anyone, even an angel from heaven, come preaching a gospel other than that which was given to us, we are to consider them anathema and not credible at all. Hence, no Muhammad and no Qur’an for us. It is impossible in the truest sense of the word. We cannot serve Christ our Lord and Savior and Muhammad and the Qur’an. Never.
In such circumstances, how can any Muslim even look towards the faith of the christians.
I do not know, because I am not one, but perhaps they see a different relationship with God in Christianity than they see in Islam? We worship the same God (I know this makes some on both sides mad, but I really do believe it, and the Church does too), but our understandings of Him and our relationship to Him are very different. For some, Christianity seems like a more “logical” (for lack of a better word) kind of relationship to have with God than Islam.

Christianity, it should be noted, does have as one element of this relationship of a willing, joyful slave somewhat analogous to the Muslim concept of submission, so converts from Islam need not give that up, even. They just develop a more complete, deep understanding of the different facets of God’s love and care for them upon entering Christianity. It is not so one-dimensional and harsh as Islam can appear to be sometimes. I rejoice at being a slave to the Father of all righteousness, but not ONLY that.
The initial teachings of Jesus was alright and true.
Where does the Qur’an support this “corrupted Bible” theory?
But since then, during early 300 years of early christianity, the real teachings of Jesus have been derailed (obliterated) by some one and the christians have been fooled into false beliefs. So they can continue in their faith. Most likely, the Muslims who have better beliefs will not accept the present day teachings of the church.
This is an interesting claim, much like the “Great Apostacy” claimed by the Mormons, who similarly have no proof. So you want me to believe that prior to the canonization of the Bible the teachings of Jesus, which had been preserved somewhere else in some “original Bible” or whatever, became corrupted? I don’t see why I should, since we HAVE historical documentation for our Bible. When you get some historical documentation for your own theories, please show it to us. Until then, it will remain wishful Islamic fantasy and nothing more.

The word of the Lord shall endure forever and ever, by the way. That’s in the Bible. Is that one of the corrupted parts? If it is, then I guess God’s word cannot be trusted to endure forever. I guess God is a liar. It makes me wonder what the Qur’an is, then…if God couldn’t stop those pesky humans from messing things up with the Torah and the Bible, why is He so sure He can do better with the Qur’an?

Oh, wait. That was blasphemy just now! Whew…it’s a good thing I don’t believe the Islamic claim, then! Only the part from the Bible that I paraphrased, that completely contradicts the supposed “corrective” necessity of the Qur’an. You see, the Bible does not depend on the Torah being wrong…
 
Dzheremi -

I just want to clarify one thing about your nice and astute post above. It is not, and never has been the position of Muslims that it was not in Allah’s power to preserve previous scriptures. Muslims do believe that only the Qur’an has been preserved, but not because Allah couldn’t, as you suggested, preserve the Torah or Injeel.

Allah tells us He could have made everyone a believer, if He willed. But He did not will that. And He did not will to preserve previous scriptures.
 
Dzheremi -

I just want to clarify one thing about your nice and astute post above. It is not, and never has been the position of Muslims that it was not in Allah’s power to preserve previous scriptures. Muslims do believe that only the Qur’an has been preserved, but not because Allah couldn’t, as you suggested, preserve the Torah or Injeel.

Allah tells us He could have made everyone a believer, if He willed. But He did not will that. And He did not will to preserve previous scriptures.
Since the Quran did not fit anywhere, and furthermore brought a contradictory message, Muhammad came up with that little pearl of wisdom to save face.

Vickie
 
Dzheremi -

I just want to clarify one thing about your nice and astute post above. It is not, and never has been the position of Muslims that it was not in Allah’s power to preserve previous scriptures. Muslims do believe that only the Qur’an has been preserved, but not because Allah couldn’t, as you suggested, preserve the Torah or Injeel.

Allah tells us He could have made everyone a believer, if He willed. But He did not will that. And He did not will to preserve previous scriptures.
Since the Quran did not fit anywhere and furthermore brought a contradictory message, Muhammad came up with that little pearl of wisdom to save face.

Vickie
 
Dzheremi -

I just want to clarify one thing about your nice and astute post above. It is not, and never has been the position of Muslims that it was not in Allah’s power to preserve previous scriptures. Muslims do believe that only the Qur’an has been preserved, but not because Allah couldn’t, as you suggested, preserve the Torah or Injeel.

Allah tells us He could have made everyone a believer, if He willed. But He did not will that. And He did not will to preserve previous scriptures.
**Thanks sis Amy, you are right. Allah could preserve the previous scriptures if He had wanted to. There is another important reason for not preserving the previous scriptures. They were for some time and not forever. Moreover they were for a particular place and people, not for the whole world people.

Those books do not claim to be for every one for all times. So they had to disappear. That was must. No harm. The last testament arrived.

It was the people who played with their scripture.**
 
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