Why don't Muslims become Christian?

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To you be your Way, and to me mine ( 109:6)
refuting your quote from the Qur’an
In the Bible we are called to be members of Christ’s body. He is head of the Church and the Church is the pillar of truth and we aren’t to break away from the Body. Ephesians 4:4-6 " One body and one Spirit; as you are called in hope of your calling. One Lord, ONE faith, one baptism . One God and Father of all who is above all and through all and in us all"
Galatians 1:8 “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to besides that which we preached to you, let him be anathema.”
Colossians 2:8 “Beware lest any man cheat you by philosophy, and vain deceit; according to the tradition of men according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ.”
Colossians 2:18 " Let no man seduce you, willing in humility and religion or angels, walking in the things which he hath not seen, in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh"

Need more??
 
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

What’s so special about becoming a Catholic ? So many non-Catholic Christians are sending Mother Teresa to hell . So , why should a Muslim wants to join her there ? 🤷

To you be your Way, and to me mine ( 109:6)
Yep. The Catholic church was founded by Christ and the Apostles. The Church is like the Arc of Noah carrying the Faithful through the storm. What is our option; follow a Mysogonist, Rapist, Murderer, etc (Big Mo)???
 
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Salaam/ Peace
… Why are you condemning Mother Teresa? .
I did not condemn her . I just mentioned that some/many
non-Catholics Christians think Mother Teresa will go to hell . I found this info in the Christian site , if u don’t believe me , do a google search .
 
Hi

I think Muhammad never said the above sentence.

If you think he said it; kindly quote from Quran, the first and foremost source of guidance of the Muslim, whichever the sect.

Please remember to give some preceding verses and some following verses of Quran for the contex.

Thanks
I thought the quran was the word of God? Why would I quote the quran to get something muhammed said? Unless muhammed is the author of the quran…

This hadith is from Bukari,the most reliable collection of hadiths. If you deny the authenticity of this hadith the the deny a major portion of sharia law. What other aspects of sharia law are not true as well?
 
I believe certain things because the Qur’an says so. Seems like we have something in common.

I would like for you to read a book, called “Misquoting Jesus” by Dr. Bart Ehrman. Should clear up the “manuscript record” of the Bible for you.

Now, I’d like you to find me a scholar who says that hadeeth are not as reliable as the Qur’an. Not some mowlvi, but a real scholar–should be someone I’ve heard of before. Especially since you say that’s the “majority” view. Please.
If the hadith is reliable as the quran then do you agree that those who convert from islam should be killed as commanded by muhammed in the hadith?

This is perhaps the answer to the original thread.
 
How can a true loving God command his followers to do these?

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:4:104 “And do not relent in pursuing the enemy.”

**MugenOne, the fighter enemy must be pursued and killed.
MugenOne, this is not the way to object to Quran. You have just given very brief words of the Quran without showing the context. Please see the verses again:
[9:3] اِلَّا الَّذِيْنَ عٰهَدتُّمْ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِيْنَ ثُمَّ لَمْ يَنْقُصُوْكُمْ شَيْـًٔـا وَّلَمْ يُظَاهِرُوْا عَلَيْكُمْ اَحَدًا فَاَتِمُّوْۤا اِلَيْهِمْ عَهْدَهُمْ اِلٰى مُدَّتِهِمْ‌ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَّقِيْنَ‏
[9:3] Excepting those of the idolaters with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.​

[9:4] فَاِذَا انْسَلَخَ الْاَشْهُرُ الْحُـرُمُ فَاقْتُلُوا الْمُشْرِكِيْنَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوْهُمْ وَخُذُوْهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوْهُمْ وَاقْعُدُوْا لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ‌ۚ فَاِنْ تَابُوْا وَاَقَامُوا الصَّلٰوةَ وَ اٰتَوُا الزَّكٰوةَ فَخَلُّوْا سَبِيْلَهُمْ‌ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ غَفُوْرٌ رَّحِيْمٌ‏
[9:5] And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, merciful.​

[9:5] وَاِنْ اَحَدٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِيْنَ اسْتَجَارَكَ فَاَجِرْهُ حَتّٰى يَسْمَعَ كَلٰمَ اللّٰهِ ثُمَّ اَبْلِغْهُ مَاْمَنَهٗ‌ؕ ذٰلِكَ بِاَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لَّا يَعْلَمُوْنَ‏
[9:5] And if anyone of the idolaters ask protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge. **

See also the next verses of chapter 9.
[4:103] And when you have finished the Prayer, remember Allah while standing, and sitting, and lying on your sides. And when you are secure from danger, then observe Prayer in the prescribed form; verily Prayer is enjoined on the believers to be performed at fixed hours.​

[4:104] وَلَا تَهِنُوْا فِىْ ابْتِغَآءِ الْقَوْمِ‌ؕ اِنْ تَكُوْنُوْا تَاْلَمُوْنَ فَاِنَّهُمْ يَاْلَمُوْنَ كَمَا تَاْلَمُوْنَ‌ۚ وَتَرْجُوْنَ مِنَ اللّٰهِ مَا لَا يَرْجُوْنَ‌ؕ وَ كَانَ اللّٰهُ عَلِيْمًا حَكِيْمًا‏
[4:104] And slacken not in seeking these people. If you suffer, they too suffer even as you suffer. But you hope from Allah what they hope not. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.​

[4:105] اِنَّاۤ اَنْزَلْنَاۤ اِلَيْكَ الْكِتٰبَ بِالْحَـقِّ لِتَحْكُمَ بَيْنَ النَّاسِ بِمَاۤ اَرٰٮكَ اللّٰهُ‌ؕ وَلَا تَكُنْ لِّـلْخَآٮِٕنِيْنَ خَصِيْمًاۙ‏
[4:105] We have surely sent down to thee the Book comprising the truth, that thou mayest judge between men by that which Allah has taught thee. And be not thou a disputer for the faithless;
I hope you understand that it was war time and the pagans had been attacking the Muslims for the last 20 years relentlessly. Do not forget that. You are present a very narrow false picture of the Quranic teachings.
 
I thought the quran was the word of God? Why would I quote the quran to get something muhammed said? Unless muhammed is the author of the quran…

This hadith is from Bukari,the most reliable collection of hadiths. If you deny the authenticity of this hadith the the deny a major portion of sharia law. What other aspects of sharia law are not true as well?
** thedavidwilson, you are uninformed. The Hadith should not go against the quran. The Quran is clealy teaching “No Compulsion in the matters of faith/ religion”. The hadith you people have picked is against the Quran. So that is enough for it being faulty even though it be found in the Bukhari.

Also it is a single report. So not reliable. You can take it any where.It will be rejected because it is against the Quran and the practice of the holy prophet Muhammad i.e.his Sunnah.

So this Hadith is faulty on two counts. 1. Being against the teachings of the Quran. 2. Being against the practice (the Sunnah) of the holy prophet. The prophet never killed any one in his lifetime for the change of religion.
Further more, it is a report about some case after a very long time after the passing away of the prophet i.e. nearly 30 years late incident, during the time of Hazrat Ali. Why so late incident? Cannot be true, where two persons are giving differing opinion too.**
 
Hm… can I say… prove it? 😃

I wasn’t asking you. We all know you can’t make up your mind.
You’re the one using circular reasoning not me. You make assertions that don’t hold any water and that even a child can see through! All I did was challenge what you so firmly asserted.

Vickie
 
No, it means I must only reject preservation and authenticity of previous scriptures. The only scriptures I have to believe in are the ones mentioned in the Qur’an, and as they were revealed, not in their present form.

which is turning round the bush because at the end you cannot be Muslim unless you disbelieve in previous scriptures. Saying “not in their present form” leads to the same thing because there is nothing called virtual scriptures, either there are or there aren’t…your theory is exactly like the Mormons, there was an “apostacy” and all their belief is based on this apostacy they cannot even prove and you do the same, we believe in previous scriptures but they disappeared off the planet.
Allah decided to interfere and take it seriously? That implies I believe Allah didn’t take other scriptures and prophets seriously which certainly isn’t true.
 
MugenOne, the fighter enemy must be pursued and killed.
MugenOne, this is not the way to object to Quran. You have just given very brief words of the Quran without showing the context. Please see the verses again:

**[9:3] اِلَّا الَّذِيْنَ عٰهَدتُّمْ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِيْنَ ثُمَّ لَمْ يَنْقُصُوْكُمْ شَيْـًٔـا وَّلَمْ يُظَاهِرُوْا عَلَيْكُمْ اَحَدًا فَاَتِمُّوْۤا اِلَيْهِمْ عَهْدَهُمْ اِلٰى مُدَّتِهِمْ‌ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَّقِيْنَ‏ **
**[9:3] Excepting those of the idolaters with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous. **
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**[9:4] فَاِذَا انْسَلَخَ الْاَشْهُرُ الْحُـرُمُ فَاقْتُلُوا الْمُشْرِكِيْنَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوْهُمْ وَخُذُوْهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوْهُمْ وَاقْعُدُوْا لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ‌ۚ فَاِنْ تَابُوْا وَاَقَامُوا الصَّلٰوةَ وَ اٰتَوُا الزَّكٰوةَ فَخَلُّوْا سَبِيْلَهُمْ‌ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ غَفُوْرٌ رَّحِيْمٌ‏ **
**[9:5] And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, merciful. **
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**[9:5] وَاِنْ اَحَدٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِيْنَ اسْتَجَارَكَ فَاَجِرْهُ حَتّٰى يَسْمَعَ كَلٰمَ اللّٰهِ ثُمَّ اَبْلِغْهُ مَاْمَنَهٗ‌ؕ ذٰلِكَ بِاَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لَّا يَعْلَمُوْنَ‏ **
**[9:5] And if anyone of the idolaters ask protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge. **

See also the next verses of chapter 9.
**[4:103] And when you have finished the Prayer, remember Allah while standing, and sitting, and lying on your sides. And when you are secure from danger, then observe Prayer in the prescribed form; verily Prayer is enjoined on the believers to be performed at fixed hours. **
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**[4:104] وَلَا تَهِنُوْا فِىْ ابْتِغَآءِ الْقَوْمِ‌ؕ اِنْ تَكُوْنُوْا تَاْلَمُوْنَ فَاِنَّهُمْ يَاْلَمُوْنَ كَمَا تَاْلَمُوْنَ‌ۚ وَتَرْجُوْنَ مِنَ اللّٰهِ مَا لَا يَرْجُوْنَ‌ؕ وَ كَانَ اللّٰهُ عَلِيْمًا حَكِيْمًا‏ **
**[4:104] And slacken not in seeking these people. If you suffer, they too suffer even as you suffer. But you hope from Allah what they hope not. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise. **
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**[4:105] اِنَّاۤ اَنْزَلْنَاۤ اِلَيْكَ الْكِتٰبَ بِالْحَـقِّ لِتَحْكُمَ بَيْنَ النَّاسِ بِمَاۤ اَرٰٮكَ اللّٰهُ‌ؕ وَلَا تَكُنْ لِّـلْخَآٮِٕنِيْنَ خَصِيْمًاۙ‏ **
**[4:105] We have surely sent down to thee the Book comprising the truth, that thou mayest judge between men by that which Allah has taught thee. And be not thou a disputer for the faithless; **
I hope you understand that it was war time and the pagans had been attacking the Muslims for the last 20 years relentlessly. Do not forget that. You are present a very narrow false picture of the Quranic teachings.
KILL, KILL, KILL! Is that all you people think about? And you keep saying that Islam is a religion of “peace”! What a joke! And the lies, lies, lies, and the myths of Muhammad’s so-called persecutions continue ad nauseam as well. :mad:

Vickie
 
The only answer to this swearing business is that Allah is the Creator of all things. Only he can swear by anything. Mankind cannot swear by anything. Mankind can only swear by Allah only. This is the teaching of Islam. it is a sin for men to swear by anything except Allah.
 

planten;4636693ُتَّقِيْنَ‏ said:
Excepting those of the idolaters with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.

planten;4636693ُتَّقِيْنَ‏ said:

[9:5] And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, merciful.​

.

Can you clarify this for me, please? I am reading this to mean to fulfill the treaty to its term (whatever that may be, i.e. 3 years/10 years/etc). What then is “when the forbidden months have passed”? Is that the end of the treaty? As soon as the term of treaty ends, start killing the people again until they convert or pay the Zakat (is that similar to the jizya?)

Thank you.
 
Hello,
I am a former Christian and I have an answer for all the Christians on this list!

Jesus Christ, the Messenger of Allah, was the second to last Messenger sent to mankind. He was followed by Muhammad, to whom Allah revealed the Qur’an through the Angel Gabriel. The Qur’an, a recitation from the Lord of the Worlds, has been preserved in its entirety since its revelation, a miraculous revelation for all of mankind to teach the people about their Lord, Allah, and His Messengers, and the Final Day.

Because the Qur’an is the final revelation, it includes all aspects of belief–which means, not just believing in Jesus Christ but also believing in Muhammad.

To become a Christian after Islam would be to reject belief which God has taught us, to reject God’s message, and His Messenger. It would be a severe demonstration of ingratitude and arrogance to reject the Mercy and Wisdom and Guidance of Our Lord.
Jesus IS the Son of God. He was never the messenger of something else.

Jesus taught that no one gets to the Father except through Him.
He never taught that there would be anyone else, because there was not to be.

God would not teach a new commandment about Love if He were then going to send a prophet to teach hate.
 
Can you clarify this for me, please? I am reading this to mean to fulfill the treaty to its term (whatever that may be, i.e. 3 years/10 years/etc). What then is “when the forbidden months have passed”? Is that the end of the treaty? As soon as the term of treaty ends, start killing the people again until they convert or pay the Zakat (is that similar to the jizya?)

Thank you.
The zakat is only paid by muslims. This verse applies to non-muslims: either convert or be killed. This is why so many hindus have been killed by muslims (Hindu Kush is Pashtun for Hindu Slaughter). Christian’s and jews were given the special privilage (per Sura 9:29) to live as second class citizens and be subjugated.

The sacred months are certain months during the year. Muslims can only kill non-muslims outside of these months, supposedly.
 
Hi, Planten,

I do not know about anyone else, but I neither speak or read Arabic. I have no way of knowing if your quotation is accurate or not. Obviously, this is my limitation - not yours - but, I get the impression that you are not really addressing the issue addressed in plain English.
MugenOne, the fighter enemy must be pursued and killed.
MugenOne, this is not the way to object to Quran. You have just given very brief words of the Quran without showing the context. Please see the verses again.
Christ spoke repeatedly of peace and loving one’s neighbor and doing good for others - even those who persecute you.

And, while you have a point that this written account took place during a time of war - just look around you today. The very real idea - at least as I appreciate it - is for the ‘true believer’ to kill all those who do not agree with you. And, to definitely kill those who have converted from Islam.

Whatever message of ‘peace’ you can find - is truly hidden. Or, maybe it is the ‘peace’ of the grave for all of those who disagree. While I know there are Muslims who would not harn anyone, it is honestly hard for me to find them speaking out against those who proclaim that the death of others is the only answer Islam is willing to accept. Ultimately, this is unsetteling and frightening - and people will not tolerate being anxious for long.

In my opinion, unless those who are truly dedicated to peace speak out against those who are truly dedicated to wage war - no one outside of the group can tell the difference. That is a problem for everyone.

God bless
 
The zakat is only paid by muslims. This verse applies to non-muslims: either convert or be killed. This is why so many hindus have been killed by muslims (Hindu Kush is Pashtun for Hindu Slaughter). Christian’s and jews were given the special privilage (per Sura 9:29) to live as second class citizens and be subjugated.

The sacred months are certain months during the year. Muslims can only kill non-muslims outside of these months, supposedly.
OK. I was just confused because the verses are consecutive and it makes it sound like the “forbidden months” are those months of the treaty when they are forbidden to kill anyone as a part of said treaty. Then, when those “forbidden months” are over they can kill again.
Thank you for your help. 🙂
 
** thedavidwilson, you are uninformed. The Hadith should not go against the quran. The Quran is clealy teaching “No Compulsion in the matters of faith/ religion”. The hadith you people have picked is against the Quran. So that is enough for it being faulty even though it be found in the Bukhari.

Also it is a single report. So not reliable. You can take it any where.It will be rejected because it is against the Quran and the practice of the holy prophet Muhammad i.e.his Sunnah.

So this Hadith is faulty on two counts. 1. Being against the teachings of the Quran. 2. Being against the practice (the Sunnah) of the holy prophet. The prophet never killed any one in his lifetime for the change of religion.
Further more, it is a report about some case after a very long time after the passing away of the prophet i.e. nearly 30 years late incident, during the time of Hazrat Ali. Why so late incident? Cannot be true, where two persons are giving differing opinion too.**
Apparently you disagree with all 4 schools of islamic jurisprudence. Read Relaince of the Traveller :

amazon.com/Reliance-Traveller-Classic-Islamic-Al-Salik/dp/0915957728/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231345799&sr=8-1

How else do you tailor islam from what is accepted and mainstream?
 
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