Why eat to remember?

[geraldffff]

It could be that the reason Nevim cannot grasp the truth of “real presence” is because he is not of the house of God the Father. This can be shown by his claim that he is a bond servant and not a son. But only he can change that.

Galations 4: 6Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,[a] Father.” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

1. The Torah says nothing about eating the living God. To suggest that the Torah provisions apply to Jesus is to backhandedly deny that Jesus is God.

Psalm 34:8:

Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

I have a question which to which I haven’t found an answer which makes sense to me, and I have come here for help. As one who is not Christian I understand the importance and meaning of the Eucharist, but I do not understand the reason for consuming the body and blood of Jesus. I found a word to describe this - theophagy - (some may call it ‘cannibalism’) but am left with the question of “Why?” Why does the physical act of eating Jesus bring one closer to him? Why not just pray and have Jesus enter your heart that way?

By the way, I really wish to avoid a discussion on transubstantiation in this thread since it is covered elsewhere.

Thanks.

No transubstantiation here.

Here some more links on diet and memory too.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Apples and Pears, Canna and drink blood are two very different concepts. Drinking blood is forbidden in the Torah therefore Catholic Transubstaition is not true.

Just because you were raised Catholic doesn’t have any prove your credibility on this subject. Just many X-Catholics, they leave because they don’t understand a doctrine like the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

I’m a cradle Catholic and I use to think that it was symbolic. I didn’t fully accept it until I read the John 6 (Bread Discourse) and the Catholic Catechism.

I started to wonder why a large number of Jesus disciple were leaving him because they find the idea of eating his flesh as “hard to believe.”

Jesus said, my flesh is real bread, and my blood is real wine. On night he was betrayed, Jesus said, “This is my Body” and “this is my Blood.” He means what he said.

The Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ period. It is a belief that this 2,000 yrs old Church profess long before you and I were born.

 

[VociMike]

Originally Posted by VociMike
2) The Torah says nothing about eating the living God. To suggest that the Torah provisions apply to Jesus is to backhandedly deny that Jesus is God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psalm 34:8
Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.

OK, good catch! What I was meaning to say is that the verses supplied by Nevim said nothing about eating the living God.

 

[VociMike]

Drinking blood is forbidden in the Torah therefore Catholic Transubstaition is not true.

Why is drinking blood forbidden? Scripture tells us why quite clearly. Once you see that, and remember why Christ became Incarnate, the supposed problem goes away to be replaced by a beautiful solution.

 

[Nevim]

It could be that the reason Nevim cannot grasp the truth of “real presence” is because he is not of the house of God the Father. This can be shown by his claim that he is a bond servant and not a son.

I really think you need to stop going on your emotions and think before you speak:

NAS Romans 1:1 Paul,** a bond-servant of Christ Jesus**, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

NAS Colossians 4:7 As to all my affairs, Tychicus, our beloved brother and faithful servant ** and fellow bond-servant in the Lord,** will bring you information.

NAS Titus 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and dthe knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,

NAS 2 Timothy 2:24 And the Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, bable to teach, patient when wronged,

NAS James 1:1 James, a **bond-servant of God **and cof the Lord Jesus Christ, to dthe twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad, greetings.

Even the half-brother of the Messiah calls himself a “bond-servant”
Like I said you are moving on emotion not Scripture. Think, and change your attitude before responding and embrassing yourself.

 

[Nevim]

Why is drinking blood forbidden? Scripture tells us why quite clearly. Once you see that, and remember why Christ became Incarnate, the supposed problem goes away to be replaced by a beautiful solution.

How is that an answer ? The Scripture states explictly not to drink any blood what isn’t clear here ?
NAS Leviticus 3:17 ‘It is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings: you shall not eat any fat or any blood.’"
NAS Acts 15:20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled** and from blood. **

The Scriptures are explict here the Catholic Communion is not Bibically supported. They make the Messiah into a false prophet, by their doctrine of Transubstantiation

 

[Saint_Augustin]

Apples and Pears, Canna and drink blood are two very different concepts. Drinking blood is forbidden in the Torah therefore Catholic Transubstaition is not true.

It’s also prohibited to talk with the dead in the Law, but Jesus met Moses on a hill before his crucifixion.

The problem with the messianic Christians is that they want a reconciliation between two worlds: Judaism with the Christendom. And it’s impossible.

Are you circumcised? If not, you should be circumcised if you really want to mimic the Jews.

 

[Nevim]

Just because you were raised Catholic doesn’t have any prove your credibility on this subject. Just many X-Catholics, they leave because they don’t understand a doctrine like the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

I’m a cradle Catholic and I use to think that it was symbolic. I didn’t fully accept it until I read the John 6 (Bread Discourse) and the Catholic Catechism.

I started to wonder why a large number of Jesus disciple were leaving him because they find the idea of eating his flesh as “hard to believe.”

Jesus said, my flesh is real bread, and my blood is real wine. On night he was betrayed, Jesus said, “This is my Body” and “this is my Blood.” He means what he said.

The Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ period. It is a belief that this 2,000 yrs old Church profess long before you and I were born.

I know full well what it meant growing up and accepted the concept. You are beating a dead horse here. Y’shua engaged Idioms and Metaphors the Scriptures are loaded with them. “This is my body” is metaphoric language. I already posted the Grammatical rule for a metaphor.

 

[VociMike]

How is that an answer ? The Scripture states explictly not to drink any blood what isn’t clear here ?

Once again I ask (hoping for an answer), what is the reason given in Scripture that the Jews were told not to drink blood? And what is the reason Christ became Incarnate, and what is the reason He tells us to eat His flesh and drink His blood? It all ties in together.

 

[Jaypeeto3]

Oh, thank GOODNESS for Nevim (Edited for respect and charity), showing up here and teaching us Catholic idiots a thing or two !!
(Edited for respect and charity)
and to think ALL CHRISTIANS got the Eucharist WRONG for 1500 years until Luther came along (so where was the teaching work of the Holy Spirit for 1500 years then, on so basic a Christian thing as Holy Communion???).

Sorry, Nevim (Edited for respect and charity),
but the earliest Christians believed exactly what the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches believe: namely, that at communion, we actually receive the living body and blood and soul and divinity of our Resurrected Lord Jesus.
Our teaching has been the same for 2,000 years.

I’m sorry to come across as offensive, but you are insulting the faith of 2,000 years of consistent Christian witness and all of the Saints of the first 1500 years of Christianity.

Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)

 

[Nevim]

Once again I ask (hoping for an answer), what is the reason given in Scripture that the Jews were told not to drink blood? And what is the reason Christ became Incarnate, and what is the reason He tells us to eat His flesh and drink His blood? It all ties in together.

And I already gave you the answer, But just encase you still do not understand here it is again; obedience to God’s Word. Just like Christ and His apostle were obedient to God’s Word, so do we. Duet 13:1-5

 

[Nevim]

Oh, thank GOODNESS for Nevim (Edited for respect and charity), showing up here and teaching us Catholic idiots a thing or two !!
Nevim (Edited for respect and charity),

Excuse me but I did not come here and call any of you names, so be polite and do same.

 

[Nevim]

It’s also prohibited to talk with the dead in the Law, but Jesus met Moses on a hill before his crucifixion.

So it’s impossible for God to talk to the dead? Catholics do it all the time !
Saint Augustin:

The problem with the messianic Christians is that they want a reconciliation between two worlds: Judaism with the Christendom. And it’s impossible.

Whatever is a messiainc Christian ? Never heard of that one. Reading Romans 11 and the Book of Acts and you “impossible” remark vanishes.
Saint Augustin:

Are you circumcised? If not, you should be circumcised if you really want to mimic the Jews.

I fail to understand the hostility I find here, fruit of being a Catholic ? Hmm seems that way to me ! What a shameful testamony.

 

[petra]

The Scripture does enable the belief in the real presence it’s in the real born again believer:
NAS 1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
Now do you see somewhere in that Scripture that in order to have the Real Presence I have to either be a Catholic or eat a piece of bread blessed by a Catholic priest ?

As your cited scripture correctly points out, God’s presence within the believer is the Holy Spirit. You should know that Catholics most certainly affirm this. But the Second Person of the Trinity does not indwell us in the same way. As many protestants frequently do, you blur the lines between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Each person of the Trinity is a distinct person and has a particular role in our salvation. The Father chooses us, draws us, and sent His Son to us. The Son sacrificed His life to ransom us. The Son is also logos, the Word of God, and He is the Bridegroom and Head of the Church. The Holy Spirit indwells us, empowers us, and gives us actual graces that we may respond to God’s invitation for savation and continued obedience to Him.

In receiving the Eucharist, we are joined with Christ in the once and for all sacrfice that He made. This does not detract from the gift of the indwelling Spirit because its significance is related to the unique work of the Second Person of the Trinity.

Please see the following, which answers all of your objections about scriptural support for the doctrine of the Eucharist: catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp.

I’m interested in your response about whether you believe that correct doctrine can be passed to individuals directly from the Apostles, as 2 Tim. 2:2 indicates. How could Ignatius of Antioch have gotten it so wrong, having been instructed by John himself. Hmm?

 

[Saint_Augustin]

So it’s impossible for God to talk to the dead? Catholics do it all the time !

You missed the point. As a human being Jesus had to accomplish the Law perfectly. This is why he told to Peter, John and James to be silent about this meeting with Moses.

Whatever is a messiainc Christian ? Never heard of that one. Reading Romans 11 and the Book of Acts and you “impossible” remark vanishes.

Nope. Paul had to deal with Judaists like you very often. And this is not an ad hominem.

I fail to understand the hostility I find here, fruit of being a Catholic ? Hmm seems that way to me ! What a shameful testamony.

You can be anything you want, it’s not my soul. I will respect you anytime, because I don’t care about what you are. Have a good week.

 

[Church_Militant]

(From this thread.)
If there is no real presence in the Eucharist, then how can St.Paul warn us not to take it unworthily lest we become guilty of the body and blood of the Lord? That “spiritualization” makes complete nonsense not only of the 6th chapter of John, but of 1st Corinthians 10:16-17 “16 The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord? 17 For we, being many, are one bread, one body, all that partake of one bread.”

and 11: 23-30

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. 24 And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. 25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. 27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 30 Therefore are there many inform and weak among you, and many sleep.

Now, how can one become guilty of the body and blood of the Lord IF THAT BODY AND BLOOD OF THE LORD IS NOT REALLY THERE? Now if I make a symbol of Karl Keating like this symbol here: and then I decide to do bad things to that symbol symbol…like say this: http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/blowup1.gif I may indeed be guilty of abusing that symbol of the goodman Karl Keating, but am I guilty of his body and blood? Silly question…of course not! Why? BECAUSE KARL KEATING IS NOT REALLY PRESENT IN THAT SYMBOL is he?
There is the the whole case for why the Eucharist really is the presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ…body and blood, soul and divinity.

It’s obvious from the literal reading of these passages that St. Paul believed this.

Catholics! You have the greatest miracle of all at every Mass that you participate in. BE THERE!
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,

P.S. To Karl Keating, and the mods: no offense intended

 

[geraldffff]

Just because you were raised Catholic doesn’t have any prove your credibility on this subject. Just many X-Catholics, they leave because they don’t understand a doctrine like the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

I’m a cradle Catholic and I use to think that it was symbolic. I didn’t fully accept it until I read the John 6 (Bread Discourse) and the Catholic Catechism.

I started to wonder why a large number of Jesus disciple were leaving him because they find the idea of eating his flesh as “hard to believe.”

Jesus said, my flesh is real bread, and my blood is real wine. On night he was betrayed, Jesus said, “This is my Body” and “this is my Blood.” He means what he said.

The Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ period. It is a belief that this 2,000 yrs old Church profess long before you and I were born.

You are right on. This concept "of eating his flesh"introduced by Jesus captured my mind when I was seeking meaning in this world and asking how the Roman Catholic Church could be the true church when many members are not holy. What follows holds me fast

John 6: 66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve.

68Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”

 

[VociMike]

And I already gave you the answer, But just encase you still do not understand here it is again; obedience to God’s Word. Just like Christ and His apostle were obedient to God’s Word, so do we. Duet 13:1-5

You are incorrect. The reason which God gives in Scripture for not eating the blood of creatures is because the life is in the blood. Now, why did Christ become Incarnate? To give us everlasting life, His own life. The OT warning against eating the blood of creatures is simply part of the warning against pagan practices. Jesus Christ is not a pagan god, thus drinking His blood is not a pagan practice, any more than worshiping Him is pagan practice, although worshiping any man would be pagan practice. So the very reason the Jews were told not to eat the blood of creatures is linked to the reason God tells us to eat His blood. Just as the life of every creature is in the blood, so too the life of God is in His blood. How you cannot see the beauty in that, I do not know.