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Lapell
Guest
I thought litteral interpretation was also used in Judaism…
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Lapell
Guest
Both Judaism and Christianity have many layers of interpretation on any given passage of the Scriptures.
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Lapell
Guest
As for Greek Mythology, what about the reaction of the Greeks present when Paul mentioned God having backed a man’s testimony by resurrecting this man from death. Why did THEY laugh at Paul and tell him: “On this we will hear you another time!” ??
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Lapell
Guest
As for them being “emanations”, again it’s one possible conclusions among others one can arrive at.
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Christians in general misunderstand the word Elohim when using it as an evidence for plurality in God. Trinity, that is. As time can be considered chronologically, and also psychologically, a word can also be looked at grammatically in terms of plurality of itself or psychologically as the plural related to it. I’ll explain in more simpler words.
The word Elohim does mean plural but not of itself. I mean, of the subject, but of the object it points to. For example, Elohim barah et hashamaim…" If Elohim, the subject was a word meant to be itself in the plural, the verb would by necessity have to follow the plural as in “baru,” (created).
Let’s take Abraham as an example to illustrate the case. Afterwards we will return to
Elohim. We all know that originally, Abraham’s name was Abram, and the name change was effected by occasion of the Covenant between himself and God, when the reason for the change was that Abraham would be the father of a host of nations. (Gen. 17:4,5) So, does the word Abraham mean plural? Yes, but not of the subject (Abraham) who continued to be one person. However, Abraham meant plural
but of the object or “many nations.”
Now, back to Elohim, there was a time in the very beginning, when the Hebrews considered God to be a local God: The God of the Hebrews, in opposite to the gods of the other nations. When they came to the enlightenment or understanding that God was absolutely One, and that He was the God of the whole Earth, the God of all the nations, they also came to understand that the plurality of Elohim was related to the object (the nations) and not of the subject, or Himself, Who remained absolutely One.
Grammatically, the singular for God is El, and the plural Elim, and not Elohim. Therefore, there is no plurality in Elohim per se but in what He relates to. The conclusion is that God is absolutely One and not a Trinity or Duality. Besides, God is also incorporeal, and there can be no plurality in incorporeality.
Ben:
The use of the plural as a plural of intensification, maybe ?
I doubt very much that the Tanakh contains anything any intimations of, still less any semantic evidence for, belief in a plurality of Divine Persons. The Tanakh cannot be used in that way. At most, it can be applied to belief in the plurality of Persons - but it is no basis for that belief. IOW, the Tanakh nowhere teaches or implies belief in a Trinity, so passages which seem to suggest it does have to be taken in a different sense: for instance, as talking of hypostatised Divine qualities: such as Wisdom, Justice, Peace; as is done in Psalms, Proverbs, & the Prophets, for example.Besides, it would be historically absurd to impute a belief in the Trinity to the holders of the faith recorded the Tanakh: for if those who held this faith were Christian Trinitarians, why were the Jewish opponents of Jesus not also Trinitarians ?
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Lapell
Guest
I repeat my question again, Ben:
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Ben_Masada
Guest
I also agree with you that Elohim has nothing to do with plurality in God or Trinity. I firmly believe that God is Absolutely One and incorporeal at that. And that there is no plurality in incorporeality.
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Because they thought the same thing Jesus’ Apostles thought when Paul showed up in Jerusalem trying to join the Sect of the Nazarenes by saying that he had met Jesus on the Road of Damascus: That he was either crazy or lying.
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Jews are little more intelligent than that.I thought litteral interpretation was also used in Judaism…
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Lapell
Guest
Indeed, they are intelligent enough not to abandon the layer of litteral interpretation so quickly and completely. Soviet examples of what tabula rasa does you should remember, Ben!
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Lapell
Guest
But they were Greeks, Ben! Bathed in Greek Mythology from their youth! And yet they laughed when Paul mentioned something about a man whom God resurrected! And this you don’t find strange at all? They were Greeks, Ben!!
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Lapell
Guest
So I take it Greek Mythology was seen even in Greece as some kind of fairy tale, with the divinities far away, way remote from them… made up by their ancestors. Was Judaism made up by your ancestors, Ben, or truly coming from God Almighty?
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Ben_Masada
Guest
**Are you sure the reason for their laughing was resurrection?
I would double check on that. They must have laughed about the strange talk of an unknown God. **
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Ben_Masada
Guest
**Judaism was made up by our ancestors. Now, don’t try to tell me that Christianity comes from God Almighty because you will get trapped in your own arachnoid web. **
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anthony022071
Guest
Actually,it was the Church that brought knowledge of the God of Israel to the gentiles.
The Jews were not commisioned by God to evangelize the world. The spread of knowledge of God throughout the world had to wait until the coming of the Messiah. But now much of the world does know of the God of Israel,and that in itself is fulfillment of the scriptures,and proof that Jesus is the Messiah,as Pope Benedict pointed out in his book “Jesus of Nazareth”.
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Lapell
Guest
Oh Yes, I am certain. Because they did just as Paul was mentioning that God guaranteed what the man He sent was saying by resurrecting this man from death. They burst out laughing just at the point Paul was mentioning that man’s resurrection. Oh yes, Ben!
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Lapell
Guest
Ah, then according to you, Judaism was made up by your ancestors. So, in your view, the Israelites invented God?
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Lapell
Guest
As the Revelation of the TaNaKH came from God, the Revelation of the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament also came from God. I am no spider and don’t intend to trap anyone in saying this, which I believe deeply to be the Truth.
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Lapell
Guest
You should know that any person of Jewish origin has a quite concrete way of expressing himself, and those following a Jewish-born person would tend to adopt such way of expressing themselves to some extent…
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Who said that the NT is also Word of God coming from God, you, Paul, or the Church? Jesus was not because the NT appeared 50+ years after Jesus had been gone. That’s what I meant by getting trapped in your own web.
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