Why embrace change?

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Why does it seem that Catholics, or the majority of the Catholics that are vocal, are so eager to make changes within the church?

We have the most beautiful, powerful and established doctrines, liturgies and practices in the world. The very same ones that spread the gospel throughout the entire world in times much harder than we have now.
And yet sometimes it seems people would just ditch all of that in an attempt to fix what is not broken.
As a former Protestant this deeply saddens me, for I have seen where those (changes) lead. Whether intentionally or not.
 
Convincing people to go from Worshiping a lightning bolt wielding jerk to God is an Easy sell,
acording to Chris Stefanick - Contagious Catholicism (2019 Defending the Faith Conference) 3:40
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The atheism of today I would assume is in greater quantities and qualities then the past.

We may have beauty, but the beauty the culture wants is this:
 
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It’s really sad. I look around the world, a world that is so full of chaos and disaster, natural, moral and personal, and just am heartbroken that what once stood so strong is faltering from the attacks inside of and outside of the church.
 
Really any changes… obviously the big ones, communion in the hand, liturgy, music etc…, additions in the Catechism.
But really it could be any change that impacts the mass, changes the traditions.
 
ConcernedConvert said:
Really any changes… obviously the big ones, communion in the hand, liturgy, music etc…, additions in the Catechism.
But really it could be any change that impacts the mass, changes the traditions.
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Don’t confuse style with substance.

Certain parts of the Mass are very culture-specific and it’s 100% appropriate to change them to fit the situation. As an example, the use of traditional spirituals and call-and-response style homilies for parishes whose members primarily come from the African-American community is not at all contrary to our faith (provided the music and homilies aren’t contradictory to doctrine, of course).

But other parts, such as the prayers for consecration, must not be changed. We can’t change doctrine or meaning and changing the prayers does just that.

So which are you referring to? Style or substance?
 
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The answer you’ll hear is “ecumenism” namely that Christians need to come together

But note that the onus always seems to be on Catholics to change to become more Protestant

Why isn’t the onus on Protestants to become more Catholic?

After all, the Protestants are the ones who abandoned Catholicism, not the other way around.

When a child runs away from home, the parents don’t conclude “we need to change to be more like our kid who ran away so we’ll all get along”, no the kid needs to accept he shouldn’t have left.
 
I guess mostly style but both. Style cannot continuously change without impacting substance. This seems apparent in the practices that have ensued since Vatican 2.
 
Aquinas11 said:
The answer you’ll hear is “ecumenism” namely that Christians need to come together

But note that the onus always seems to be on Catholics to change to become more Protestant

Why isn’t the onus on Protestants to become more Catholic?

After all, the Protestants are the ones who abandoned Catholicism, not the other way around.

When a child runs away from home, the parents don’t conclude “we need to change to be more like our kid who ran away so we’ll all get along”, no the kid needs to accept he shouldn’t have left.
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How much contact have you had with Protestants in the last few years?

The current cover of “Christianity Today” (a magazine founded by Billy Graham and targeted primarily to Evangelical Protestants) features a beautiful portrait of Mary, the First Christian.

In our city, many of the Evangelical churches have services featuring chant, Latin, incense, lectio divina , recitation of the Creeds, veils worn by women, kneeling in prayer, praying with beads (not the St. Dominc Rosary we are familiar with, but one featuring the Our Father and other prayers from the Bible), and also confession (not to a priest, but to fellow believers–hey, give 'em a break! It’s a step in the right direction!)

There is controversy about this, as some Evangelicals from the more Fundamentalist churches believe that these churches are becoming “too Catholic”.

So–your wish is granted! Protestants, at least in some areas, are becoming “more Catholic!”

And if it makes you feel any better, my husband and I started attending an Ordinary Form of the Mass back in 2002 after we were kicked out of our Evangelical Protestant church (because of a lie propagated by a jealous female pastor), and we had NO CLUE what was going on, other than the Lord’s Prayer and the Bible readings, and we didn’t know ANY of the hymns sung, even though they were (and still are) from the Gather Hymnal!

So relax and stop worrying–the Catholic Church is definitely not becoming “more Protestant,” otherwise Protestants like us wouldn’t have had to make an appointment with the priest to ask him to please explain what on earth was happening in the Mass!
 
I disagree. I have never seen a Protestant church become more catholic. Maybe the occasional individual church. But follow mainline Protestant denominations and they are clearly running further away from the Catholic Church and at far greater speed.
 
ConcernedConvert said:
Why does it seem that Catholics, or the majority of the Catholics that are vocal, are so eager to make changes within the church?

We have the most beautiful, powerful and established doctrines, liturgies and practices in the world. The very same ones that spread the gospel throughout the entire world in times much harder than we have now.
And yet sometimes it seems people would just ditch all of that in an attempt to fix what is not broken.
As a former Protestant this deeply saddens me, for I have seen where those (changes) lead. Whether intentionally or not.
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Cardinal Sarah has just written and published his :The day is now far spent" in which he offers a brilliant analysis of the crisis of Western civilization and its influence on the church itself. Written in the form of an interview, it consists of a series of questions and answers on topics ranging from the fall of truth to the spiritual and religious collapse of society. I can’t recommend it highly enough.
 
ConcernedConvert said:
I guess mostly style but both. Style cannot continuously change without impacting substance. This seems apparent in the practices that have ensued since Vatican 2.
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Then why not title the thread, Changes due to Vatican 2, and why I don’t like them?
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
What changes did you have in mind?
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I would object to the changes made in determining which marriages can be annulled. In 1929, in the USA there were about 10 marriage annulments. In recent years it has gone as high as 60,000 per year in the USA. Now each marriage annulment must be preceded by a civil divorce. That is a huge change.
Another thing is that if I want to see a dancing performance, I can see it on TV or at a movie. Generally, I would go to church to pray and reflect on how to lead a better life. I would want to reflect upon the great sacrifice that Jesus has made for us by His Death on the Cross. It is a great distraction for me to have to listen to this terrible rock music and to watch this dancing that takes place during the Mass. I don’t understand the fascination with clowns and Mickey Mouse at Mass. Yes, I don’t mind seeing clowns at a circus, but I don’t go to Mass for that reason. Similarly with hugging and kissing.
This is why I often attend the Greek or Russian Eastern Orthodox Mass which, because of its respectful liturgy, allows me to meditate and reflect at how great was the Sacrifice that Jesus made.
 
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I just finished that one! Overall a very awesome book from a great man. I am now reading Bishop Schneider’s new book Christus Vincit. It to us a phenomenal book.
 
Because I don’t believe that all of the change revolves around V2. Much of it might, but not all of it. At least not directly.
 
Modernism and the belief in novelty. Our media culture always advertising new and improved. One of the regular comments a relative would make when I’d mention Tradition in the Church, “That’s old fashioned!” said with a great deal of disdain. It seems the worst thing you can say about a thing is that it’s “old-fashioned.” I think we take great pride in progress and how much better we are than our ancestors. We’re smarter, more sophisticated, have more choices in life. And that goes along with how we practice our Faith. The past is full of ignorant, narrow-minded people who just obeyed the Church and didn’t ask questions. The old Mass reflects that view.

I don’t agree with that opinion, but I think many people feel that way.
 
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ConcernedConvert said:
I disagree. I have never seen a Protestant church become more catholic. Maybe the occasional individual church. But follow mainline Protestant denominations and they are clearly running further away from the Catholic Church and at far greater speed.
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I was Evangelical Protestant for 47 years before converting to Catholicism, and I was a member of some of the most well-known churches in the U.S.

Since my teen years, we always said that the Mainline Protestant churches are moving away from CHRISTIANITY!

25% of our members were ex-Catholics, but another 25% were people who “escaped” from the Mainline denominations that were becoming theologically, socially, and politically liberal as far back as the 1970s! Even back then, Mainline Churches like the UCC were introducing women pastors and homosexual pastors, and were adopting practices like transcendental meditation, nature worship, crystal-wearing, psychic experiences, and other occult practices. They were also advocating abortion and attempting to undermine established authorities. Folks my age will remember such slogans as “Don’t trust anyone over 30!”

So of course mainline Protestant denominations aren’t becoming more Catholic–because they are moving further and further away from historical, orthodox Christianity!

It’s the Evangelical Protestant churches that are moving closer to Catholicism. Consider that many of these churches used to teach that Catholicism is a “cult” based on Babylonian goddess worship–and now those same churches march and pray side by side with Catholics as we work to try to end the scourge of abortion in the U.S.

Two of the Evangelical churches in my city have hired me (going on two years now) to play piano/organ in their worship services–there was a time when this would have been unthinkable!! And to make it even richer–I was invited to give a presentation at a women’s conference of one of these denominations–me, a Catholic, a Catholic convert at that–a woman who gave up Evangelical Protestant Christianity for Catholicism! And yet, I am a speaker at their conference! Wow!

There are definite “signs” of unification of the Protestants and Catholics. Let’s be optimistic here, and rejoice over these signs, even though they are still few and far between. Jesus is on our side–He prayed that we might all be one in Him!
 
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