Why follow Luther, Calvin , and Wesley, and not Jesus Christ?

[ALLFORHIM]

I was wondering why non-Catholic Christians don’t follow what Jesus gave to St. Peter, the church, the holy Catholic church. Since everything was Catholic back then (Early Church Fathers, etc…).
If Protestants KNOW this, yet they follow someone who instead married a nun (Luther married a Catholic nun, and he himself was a Catholic), why would you remain Protestant? Don’t you realize that if everything WAS Catholic BEFORE Luther, why not feel that Jesus made it that way?
And Calvin and Wesley started THEIR OWN churches, the Presbyterian and Methodist churches.
Why not become Catholic as it was in the days BEFORE these gentlemen decided to go off on their own?

Hi,

I dont really know much about any of these guys. I have given my life over to Christ 12 years ago. I am a Christ follower.

I study the word of God so I know how to live out my christian faith with faith, hope and love. I study the word of God to show myself approved. I bend my will to the Will of God(which is really hard ) Every day I sacrifice something I WANT for something Christ wants me to do instead. We are suppose to be still and know that He is God and listen for what His purpose is in our life. In my spiritual walk I also preach the good news of Christ so whosoever can hear it, believe it and start their walk with Christ.

I thought that is what christianity was all about not some men or which church I walk into on Sunday and worship a Holy God

I dont understand why any of this is so difficult for people here on these boards to understand

 

[Righteousone]

Hi,

I dont really know much about any of these guys. I have given my life over to Christ 12 years ago. I am a Christ follower.

I study the word of God so I know how to live out my christian faith with faith, hope and love. I study the word of God to show myself approved. I bend my will to the Will of God(which is really hard ) Every day I sacrifice something I WANT for something Christ wants me to do instead. We are suppose to be still and know that He is God and listen for what His purpose is in our life. In my spiritual walk I also preach the good news of Christ so whosoever can hear it, believe it and start their walk with Christ.

I thought that is what christianity was all about not some men or which church I walk into on Sunday and worship a Holy God

I dont understand why any of this is so difficult for people here on these boards to understand

ALLFORHIM, you truly are a good man and a true believer in Christ. But that isn’t the point of the thread here. The point of this thread is to try and reveal to others WHY not follow what Jesus instituted in the first place. Regardless of anything that had happened in the church, the Catholic church. It was still around FIRST. This is what I don’t understand about the people here being offended. It is history. It is facts. The Catholic church has been there since day one, 2,000 years ago.
People just want to remain in denial.

 

[Namesake]

Hi,

I dont really know much about any of these guys. I have given my life over to Christ 12 years ago. I am a Christ follower.

I study the word of God so I know how to live out my christian faith with faith, hope and love. I study the word of God to show myself approved. I bend my will to the Will of God(which is really hard ) Every day I sacrifice something I WANT for something Christ wants me to do instead. We are suppose to be still and know that He is God and listen for what His purpose is in our life. In my spiritual walk I also preach the good news of Christ so whosoever can hear it, believe it and start their walk with Christ.

I thought that is what christianity was all about not some men or which church I walk into on Sunday and worship a Holy God

I dont understand why any of this is so difficult for people here on these boards to understand

You have it right! The part you are missing is the control and $$$$ that goes along with most organized religion.

 

[Righteousone]

You have it right! The part you are missing is the control and $$$$ that goes along with most organized religion.

Well, what do you mean? The authority of the pope? The money that is given to the church on Sunday? What exactly do you mean?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

ALLFORHIM, you truly are a good man and a true believer in Christ. But that isn’t the point of the thread here. The point of this thread is to try and reveal to others WHY not follow what Jesus instituted in the first place. Regardless of anything that had happened in the church, the Catholic church. It was still around FIRST. This is what I don’t understand about the people here being offended. It is history. It is facts. The Catholic church has been there since day one, 2,000 years ago.
People just want to remain in denial.

Im a she Thank you— for me it is not denial it is just that some teachings of the CC dont match the bible. I could not follow(in good conscious) a church I do not believe teaches the right doctrines.

Being first(which I dont believe it was) doesnt mean it is correct.

I mean if first matters then we should all be jews, or hindus, or buddhists or islamics
The book of Acts(which was the early church) does not really resemble what we see as the CC today. The CC has evolved and unfortunately adopted some false doctrine along the way. It happens(HECK the apostles told us it was going to happen) which is why I check all im taught against scripture and see what scriptures says about it. The Bereans did that with Paul so I follow suit. I believe God deliberatel spoke of the Bereans as an example to all of us of how we are to discern the truth.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

You have it right! The part you are missing is the control and $$$$ that goes along with most organized religion.

AHHH money the root of most evils. Where is that Proverbs

 

[Righteousone]

Im a she Thank you— for me it is not denial it is just that some teachings of the CC dont match the bible. I could not follow(in good conscious) a church I do not believe teaches the right doctrines.

Being first(which I dont believe it was) doesnt mean it is correct.

I mean if first matters then we should all be jews, or hindus, or buddhists or islamics
The book of Acts(which was the early church) does not really resemble what we see as the CC today. The CC has evolved and unfortunately adopted some false doctrine along the way. It happens(HECK the apostles told us it was going to happen) which is why I check all im taught against scripture and see what scriptures says about it. The Bereans did that with Paul so I follow suit. I believe God deliberatel spoke of the Bereans as an example to all of us of how we are to discern the truth.

The Catholic bible is the most authentic CORRECT bible and the ONLY ONE that has the CORRECT doctrines in it. The Protestant bible, the KJV has the MOST errors in it whatsoever. The Catholic bible has NEVER been changed nor altered. The Catholic church has PROTECTED it’s doctrines from anyone who wanted to change it. (Reformers…) And excommunicated ANYONE who tried to do so. I am sorry you don’t know the truth about our bible and even when the Catholic church is the one responsible for compliling it in the first place.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Not upset with you. I’m not even upset. You’re not even getting my point. You know me by now. You know why I’m here. I’m not selling Lutheranism. I’m considering buying Catholicism. I’m just saying you’re not being a particularly good salesman. A good salesman doesn’t tell the customer he’s a jerk for not having bought his product before.

It is like those protestants that tell you that Catholics worship Mary, and the Babylon cr*p, and tell you you should convert because you’re goin to Hell. With a sales pitch like that, there’s no way you’re buying. I don’t want the Chevy dealer to tell me how bad Fords are. Tell me how good Chevys are.

Irrespective of your view of Lutheranism, tell me why I should be Catholic. Convince me without insulting what I’ve believed all my life.

Jon

With all due respect, i dont quite understand how sensitive people have become. using such arguments that a person is not being charitable enough therefore i refuse to accept the truth i considered this to be one more excuse to explain what they most fear which is to find out that they are wrong. Jon you are a man with a heart and i can see that you are searching for the Truth. how can we tell Jesus, because You were so uncharible you lost many of Your followeres, that is why they left You. Jesus was very loving to those who did not oppose Him, even to the apostles, Jesus used harsh words many times, but to those who did oppose him; He even refrain Himself from explaining anything to them. So did the Apostles also. i think we are confused with the word LOVE.

 

[Namesake]

Well, what do you mean? The authority of the pope? The money that is given to the church on Sunday? What exactly do you mean?

Organized religion is mostly about inventing rules to control people . The $$$$ comes into play when the organized religion also controls large sums of $$$$. Very dangerous!

 

[wisdomseeker]

Im a she Thank you— for me it is not denial it is just that some teachings of the CC dont match the bible. I could not follow(in good conscious) a church I do not believe teaches the right doctrines.

Being first(which I dont believe it was) doesnt mean it is correct.

I mean if first matters then we should all be jews, or hindus, or buddhists or islamics
The book of Acts(which was the early church) does not really resemble what we see as the CC today. The CC has evolved and unfortunately adopted some false doctrine along the way. It happens(HECK the apostles told us it was going to happen) which is why I check all im taught against scripture and see what scriptures says about it. The Bereans did that with Paul so I follow suit. I believe God deliberatel spoke of the Bereans as an example to all of us of how we are to discern the truth.

Says who? you or ML, Calvin, Wesley… your pastor? how can you be sure you are right when you deny the Church built by Jesus Himself?

What do you consider a false doctrine exactly?

 

[Harpazo]

Organized religion is mostly about inventing rules to control people . The $$$$ comes into play when the organized religion also controls large sums of $$$$. Very dangerous!

Whew! I’m glad I don’t have to worry about that as Catholic. Thank God!

Al-Masih Qam!
Andrew

 

[Harpazo]

I’m a Methodist, but I’ve never “followed” John Wesley anywhere. In fact, the Covenant Prayer that Wesley wrote and Methodists use every New Year makes it pretty plain who we are to follow:

I am no longer my own, but thine.
Put me to what thou wilt, rank me with whom thou wilt.
Put me to doing, put me to suffering.
Let me be employed for thee or laid aside for thee,
exalted for thee or brought low for thee.
Let me be full, let me be empty.
Let me have all things, let me have nothing.
I freely and heartily yield all things to thy pleasure and disposal.
And now, O glorious and blessed God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
thou art mine, and I am thine.
So be it.
And the covenant which I have made on earth,
let it be ratified in heaven.
Amen.

Methodists “follow” Wesley? And Lutherans “follow” Luther? Give us all a break.

So your not following Wesley’s view of theology and his interpretation of the Bible? I think you are in denial, my brother.

Again, what I say might sound arrogant and “uncharitable” in your view, but it is the truth. What other reason are you here for than to seek the truth and embrace it?

Al-Masih Qam!
Andrew

 

[Pinkyyy]

Boy have you got all of your information wrong! This is the problem with most non-Catholics is WHERE and HOW they get their information…and before the priest scandal, what happened 2,000 years before that people? Are we skipping over 2,000 years of an unbroken link from Christ given to St. Peter? The Catholic church is still here isn’t it and will remain so as Jesus said.
Jesus also said there will be good and evil in his church and not all members will go to heaven. So, as much as you and others would like us to disappear, we ain’t going…

actually I have studied the RCC, attend mass, and my BIL is a priest - we have had conversations. I do not have my information wrong - and I did not only mention the abuse scandal but other things as well that happened way before, even at the start of Catholicism.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

The Catholic bible is the most authentic CORRECT bible and the ONLY ONE that has the CORRECT doctrines in it. The Protestant bible, the KJV has the MOST errors in it whatsoever. The Catholic bible has NEVER been changed nor altered. The Catholic church has PROTECTED it’s doctrines from anyone who wanted to change it. (Reformers…) And excommunicated ANYONE who tried to do so. I am sorry you don’t know the truth about our bible and even when the Catholic church is the one responsible for compliling it in the first place.

How do you know any of this is actually true? Who are you putting your trust in to know that any of this true?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Says who?

Well God of course:thumbsup: Im sure you read your bible–check it out. We are to put our FULL TRUST in HIM.

how can you be sure you are right when you deny the Church built by Jesus Himself?

I do not deny it–heck Im part of the body of believers–I just do not see your version of who the church is in scripture. How do you know your church is right? The only reason I even have any idea is because the bible tells me the truth. I trust what God told me in His word

What do you consider a false doctrine exactly?

Im not going to list because that would most definitely derail the thread. Besides there are many other threads out there already being hotly debated.

 

[Righteousone]

How do you know any of this is actually true? Who are you putting your trust in to know that any of this true?

I put my trust in Jesus, for only five of the 12 Apostles wrote down anything at all that has been preserved to us; and of that, not a line was penned til at least 10 years after the death of Christ, for Jesus was crucified in 33 A.D., and the first of the NT books was not written til about 45 A.D. You see what follows?
The church and the faith existed before the bible; that seems like an elementary and simple fact which no one can denyor ever has denied. Thousands of people became Christians through the work of the apostles and missionaries of Christ in various lands, and believed the whole truth of God as we believe it now, and became saints, before ever they saw or read a single sentence of Scripture of the NT, for the simple reason that Scripture did not exist.
The Latin Vulgate is the only CORRECT bible out there that the Catholic church goes by.

 

[Righteousone]

actually I have studied the RCC, attend mass, and my BIL is a priest - we have had conversations. I do not have my information wrong - and I did not only mention the abuse scandal but other things as well that happened way before, even at the start of Catholicism.

There are human beings in the church, and there will be human error as well. But the fact of the matter is that the Roman Catholic church is still standing. Any other church would of collapsed early on. Like I keep saying, it isn’t the cleverness of the bishops, but the guidance of the holy spirit. Jesus said his church will prevail until the end of time, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. What do you think he meant as he said this?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

The church and the faith existed before the bible; that seems like an elementary and simple fact which no one can denyor ever has denied. Thousands of people became Christians through the work of the apostles and missionaries of Christ in various lands, and believed the whole truth of God as we believe it now, and became saints, before ever they saw or read a single sentence of Scripture of the NT, for the simple reason that Scripture did not exist.

Yes and your point? We have scirptures now to fall back on Praise the Lord we do because see how corrupt us humans are!! Escpecially the ones who dont read the bible–they just dont have a clue.

Why do you think God gave us the Scriptures?

The Latin Vulgate is the only CORRECT bible out there that the Catholic church goes by.

You know -from what I understand there are many errors in translating from greek,hebrew and aramaic into latin. Words got lost or have different meanings. I forget where I read this but—I will check it out.
Its funny you sound just like the KJV only people.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Well God of course:thumbsup: Im sure you read your bible–check it out. We are to put our FULL TRUST in HIM. I do not deny it–heck Im part of the body of believers–I just do not see your version of who the church is in scripture. How do you know your church is right? The only reason I even have any idea is because the bible tells me the truth. I trust what God told me in His word

Im not going to list because that would most definitely derail the thread. Besides there are many other threads out there already being hotly debated.

do you know how your churches were found? or you just dont care to know?

you dont see the Church because you cant. read history of the Church and you may see it. otherwise you probably ignore the history of Israel to.

**How can Our Lord go against His own Words?

What is the foundation and pillar of truth? What is a pillar? Is the pillar of truth the Bible? If you think so, then why does the Bible say it is the Church? 1Tim 3:15

Did Jesus Christ say that the Bible is the final authority on earth? No, He did not. Jesus Christ said the final authority is the Church. Matt 18:15-18. The Church has the final authority to mitigate disputes, and to dispense the truth.

" The Church is the guardian and the dispenser of truth, because the Bible said so."**

 

[Harpazo]

Yes and your point? We have scirptures now to fall back on Praise the Lord we do because see how corrupt us humans are!! Escpecially the ones who dont read the bible–they just dont have a clue.

Why do you think God gave us the Scriptures?

You know -from what I understand there are many errors in translating from greek,hebrew and aramaic into latin. Words got lost or have different meanings. I forget where I read this but—I will check it out.
Its funny you sound just like the KJV only people.

God gave us the Scriptures to help us, teach and get closer to Him, but NOT as the “be all, end all” for authority.

I myself will not accept that Christ went though all that suffering and death on the cross for us and NOT leave us with something to help us until He comes again in glory. This is akin to the forefathers of the U.S. leaving us without an interpreter to the Constitution. Who does that? The Supreme Court.

Something to ponder…

Al-Masih Qam!
Andrew